#121
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
rPer AMuzi:
Plus livestock antibiotics. Excellent payout for the grower; low cost, faster bigger growth. Eventually you're evolving some really hardy bugs though... That's what has been preying on my mind the whole time. Numbers of animals, tons of antibiotics, and uncontrolled usage time would seem to make human over-use all but trivial by comparison. Given the expected consequences of a post-antibiotic era, I can't figure out why livestock use of antibiotics is not recognized as a major national security issue. Only thing I can come up with is money changing hands... -- Pete Cresswell |
Ads |
#122
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 3:08:49 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
But in a more serious vein, what is "wealth disparity"? Is it that you make more money then I do? I'm fairly sure that you do as you seem to be still working and I'm retired. Should I be rushing around waving my arms in the air shouting Unfair! Unfair! I think its obvious that certain workers must be paid more than other workers, or at least get some sort of perks which make certain jobs more desirable. I don't see any sense in a garbage man getting paid as much as a brain surgeon. OTOH, I also don't see any sense in corporation CEOs getting paid hundreds of times what their professional workers get paid, or paying a lower percentage of their income in taxes. Other country's corporations seem to thrive with much smaller relative pay scales for CEOs. I often wonder why CEO jobs aren't the ones being outsourced to India. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#123
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 8:42:18 AM UTC-7, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
rPer AMuzi: Plus livestock antibiotics. Excellent payout for the grower; low cost, faster bigger growth. Eventually you're evolving some really hardy bugs though... That's what has been preying on my mind the whole time. Numbers of animals, tons of antibiotics, and uncontrolled usage time would seem to make human over-use all but trivial by comparison. Given the expected consequences of a post-antibiotic era, I can't figure out why livestock use of antibiotics is not recognized as a major national security issue. Only thing I can come up with is money changing hands... -- Pete Cresswell Let me explain something to you guys - a bacteria has a VERY limited size of it's DNA. So as it develops antibiotic resistance it often has a reduced infection rate and/or effects from infection. The cries of "HORRORS - WE ARE BREEDING ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANT DISEASES" are for the most part unfounded. |
#124
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:08:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:04:28 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B wrote: Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an apprenticeship program. It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand? Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that. Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends up being destructive to the laborer. Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing any other manual labour. How so? Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home placements. No, as I wrote in another post, I was raised on a small farm in New England where just about everything was done by hand. Run a water line out to the barn" You need a six foot deep trench to get below the frost line. My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the rest of the haying was done by hand. You want a new barn? Well get a hammer and saw and build it. My paternal grandfather raised chickens, in 3,000 chicken lots. By himself, no help. He also cut wood, by hand, for the month of September, to heat his house during a New England winter. My mother's father broke his leg at 70 years of age, fell off a loaded hay wagon, pitching hay up into the mow.O.K. the family considered it a "dam fool thing to do" but he did it. My Paternal grandfather died at 87 and my maternal grandfather at 92. No disability. No Charity. Back in my days of working in a produce warehouse as a lumper, every Friday two of us would carry 36,000 pounds of bananas out of the semi trailer in their boxes, stack 'em on pallets, pull them across the warehouse into the storage rooms (bananas are kept relatively warm; if chilled they won't ripen properly) with a manual pallet jack. Even though I was 22 and strong as an ox in those days, I was damned sore after that. Watermelons were worse, they weren't in boxes. Back in those days I could toss a 100 lb bag of spuds on my shoulder and lump it upstairs, with 50 bag of onions I could run upstairs. Now I probably couldn't get the bag of spuds up off the floor. I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were machine operators. My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But even in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a period of apprenticeship by another name. I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made. Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag. Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs? -- Cheers, One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than all the alternatives tried thus far. Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?" As for capitalism.... what else is there? Good question. Russia and China's attempts at communism didn't pan out. But capitalism depends on inflation to provide the illusion of growth, as well as a constantly growing population to provide an expanding market. If the population stops growing, the economy collapses. However, we've reached a point where further population growth is rapidly becoming unsustainable. The massive increase in wealth disparity over the past 50 years is also unsustainable- top heavy structures do not stand long. Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Buckle up for deja vu! It isn't only Capitalism that seems to have to grow. A good friend grew up in Hungary under the communist system and while I never questioned him specifically, he did mention improvements in the life some enthusiasm. Bicycle to motorcycle was one example I remember. As for wealth disparity, I can remember when a doctor made a house call.... for $2.00 :-) To be honest I never paid a doctor $2.00 to make a house call but I remember being sick and the doctor coming and my folks talking about $2.00. Granted, I was just a kid but my salary was eleven cents a week for milking the cow six evenings a week. And slopping two hogs. But in a more serious vein, what is "wealth disparity"? Is it that you make more money then I do? I'm fairly sure that you do as you seem to be still working and I'm retired. Should I be rushing around waving my arms in the air shouting Unfair! Unfair! The concept that a bloke who starts a business selling bootleg records out of the trunk of his car, for example, is not entitled to everything he can make, or the guy, not even a collage graduate, that starts up a little two man business that grows because they can provide a service, is not entitled to his earnings, seems wrong to me. -- Cheers, John B. Paradise. We used to -dream- of digging ditches ... would've been looxury to oos. As for wealth disparity, I can remember when a doctor made a house call.... for $2.00 :-) We had to work at mill 14 hours/day for 8p/month! My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the rest of the haying was done by hand. When OUR dad got home he'd beat us around the head with a broken bot'l! S.CNR. |
#125
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:08:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:04:28 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B wrote: Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an apprenticeship program. It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand? Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that. Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends up being destructive to the laborer. Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing any other manual labour. How so? Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home placements. No, as I wrote in another post, I was raised on a small farm in New England where just about everything was done by hand. Run a water line out to the barn" You need a six foot deep trench to get below the frost line. My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the rest of the haying was done by hand. You want a new barn? Well get a hammer and saw and build it. That's nothing. We never had a color TV! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo And probably not even a "remote" either. The paradox of physical labor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681272/ Construction laborers have a higher obesity rate than librarians. -- Jay Beattie. Working on the railroad Sleeping on the ground Eating soda crackers, ten cents a pound. But you do highlight one of the problems with a political system that delights in appeasing the poor and downtrodden. You pay them big salaries and they eat a lot and it becomes a health problem. Had they been oppressed and forced to work for starvation wages there would be no problems with obesity. -- Cheers, John B. |
#127
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
|
#128
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:42:09 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote: rPer AMuzi: Plus livestock antibiotics. Excellent payout for the grower; low cost, faster bigger growth. Eventually you're evolving some really hardy bugs though... That's what has been preying on my mind the whole time. Numbers of animals, tons of antibiotics, and uncontrolled usage time would seem to make human over-use all but trivial by comparison. Given the expected consequences of a post-antibiotic era, I can't figure out why livestock use of antibiotics is not recognized as a major national security issue. Only thing I can come up with is money changing hands... Not only antibiotics but I believe that various hormones are also used. I read that growth hormones given to cattle produce more lean beef faster. And time is money :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#129
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 3:08:49 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote: But in a more serious vein, what is "wealth disparity"? Is it that you make more money then I do? I'm fairly sure that you do as you seem to be still working and I'm retired. Should I be rushing around waving my arms in the air shouting Unfair! Unfair! I think its obvious that certain workers must be paid more than other workers, or at least get some sort of perks which make certain jobs more desirable. I don't see any sense in a garbage man getting paid as much as a brain surgeon. OTOH, I also don't see any sense in corporation CEOs getting paid hundreds of times what their professional workers get paid, or paying a lower percentage of their income in taxes. Other country's corporations seem to thrive with much smaller relative pay scales for CEOs. What would be an equitable wage for a chap managing a world wide business with 11,600 stores in 28 countries, employing 2.3 million people with annual revenues of 480 billion dollars and a net income of 14.69 billion? I often wonder why CEO jobs aren't the ones being outsourced to India. -- Cheers, John B. |
#130
|
|||
|
|||
Jobst
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote: On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:08:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:04:28 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote: On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B wrote: Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an apprenticeship program. It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand? Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that. Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends up being destructive to the laborer. Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing any other manual labour. How so? Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home placements. No, as I wrote in another post, I was raised on a small farm in New England where just about everything was done by hand. Run a water line out to the barn" You need a six foot deep trench to get below the frost line. My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the rest of the haying was done by hand. You want a new barn? Well get a hammer and saw and build it. My paternal grandfather raised chickens, in 3,000 chicken lots. By himself, no help. He also cut wood, by hand, for the month of September, to heat his house during a New England winter. My mother's father broke his leg at 70 years of age, fell off a loaded hay wagon, pitching hay up into the mow.O.K. the family considered it a "dam fool thing to do" but he did it. My Paternal grandfather died at 87 and my maternal grandfather at 92. No disability. No Charity. Back in my days of working in a produce warehouse as a lumper, every Friday two of us would carry 36,000 pounds of bananas out of the semi trailer in their boxes, stack 'em on pallets, pull them across the warehouse into the storage rooms (bananas are kept relatively warm; if chilled they won't ripen properly) with a manual pallet jack. Even though I was 22 and strong as an ox in those days, I was damned sore after that. Watermelons were worse, they weren't in boxes. Back in those days I could toss a 100 lb bag of spuds on my shoulder and lump it upstairs, with 50 bag of onions I could run upstairs. Now I probably couldn't get the bag of spuds up off the floor. I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were machine operators. My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But even in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a period of apprenticeship by another name. I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made. Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag. Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs? -- Cheers, One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than all the alternatives tried thus far. Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?" As for capitalism.... what else is there? Good question. Russia and China's attempts at communism didn't pan out. But capitalism depends on inflation to provide the illusion of growth, as well as a constantly growing population to provide an expanding market. If the population stops growing, the economy collapses. However, we've reached a point where further population growth is rapidly becoming unsustainable. The massive increase in wealth disparity over the past 50 years is also unsustainable- top heavy structures do not stand long. Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Buckle up for deja vu! It isn't only Capitalism that seems to have to grow. A good friend grew up in Hungary under the communist system and while I never questioned him specifically, he did mention improvements in the life some enthusiasm. Bicycle to motorcycle was one example I remember. As for wealth disparity, I can remember when a doctor made a house call.... for $2.00 :-) To be honest I never paid a doctor $2.00 to make a house call but I remember being sick and the doctor coming and my folks talking about $2.00. Granted, I was just a kid but my salary was eleven cents a week for milking the cow six evenings a week. And slopping two hogs. But in a more serious vein, what is "wealth disparity"? Is it that you make more money then I do? I'm fairly sure that you do as you seem to be still working and I'm retired. Should I be rushing around waving my arms in the air shouting Unfair! Unfair! The concept that a bloke who starts a business selling bootleg records out of the trunk of his car, for example, is not entitled to everything he can make, or the guy, not even a collage graduate, that starts up a little two man business that grows because they can provide a service, is not entitled to his earnings, seems wrong to me. -- Cheers, John B. Paradise. We used to -dream- of digging ditches ... would've been looxury to oos. As for wealth disparity, I can remember when a doctor made a house call.... for $2.00 :-) We had to work at mill 14 hours/day for 8p/month! My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the rest of the haying was done by hand. When OUR dad got home he'd beat us around the head with a broken bot'l! S.CNR. So much for sarcasm. But I doubt it was 8p/month as in mid-1860s manual laborers in London received 3s. 9d. for a 10-hour day - 6 day week. An engineer I suspect that the U.S. term would be "mechanic"' made 7/6 (= £110 pounds/year). A bit earlier a mill worker (fabric) was paid 33/8 per week in 1833. And, what you don't seem to mention was the cost of living in the same period. In about 1898 my grandfather and his wife "moved to town" and he worked for a dollar a day as a carpenter. I once asked my grandmother how they could have gotten along on a dollar a day (I was making 50 cents an hour after school and weekends) and she said, that it wasn't a bad wage when bread cost 3 cents a loaf. -- Cheers, John B. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Is jobst gone? | Crescentius Vespasianus | Techniques | 7 | June 23rd 11 12:08 AM |
When Jobst ... | Steve Freides[_2_] | Techniques | 1 | January 20th 11 10:28 PM |
Jobst | Brad Anders | Racing | 20 | January 19th 11 06:31 PM |
Jobst | TriGuru55x11 | Rides | 1 | January 19th 11 02:13 PM |