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Since even the tiniest details matter . . .



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 17th 09, 07:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,934
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.

Many of your favorite stars showed their opinion of small but
easy-to-spot weight and wind-drag disadvantages.

Even in a TT where some riders carried empty water bottle for the aero
advantage, lots of riders didn't bother to take off their
wrist-watches or necklaces.

Caution: there's always the possiblity that they might be
wrist-mounted heart-monitors. (Yeah, right.)

(And don't complain about absurd minutiae--that's the whole point.)

***

Here's the stage 1 TT gallery, which happened to have wonderful shots
of normally hard-to-spot watches and necklaces:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...gallery-stage1

***

Armstrong cares--at least in the TT. He took off the massive Rolex
that he wore on his left wrist for most of the Tour:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1013

But Armstrong still finished 2 seconds behind Zabriskie, who wore
nothing extra, either.

A few views of the Tour winner's time-piece . . .

Stage 7:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg612

Look how far away you can see that thing:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg705

Stage 8:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...TRONGGIALLO113

Of course, if you're getting your weight in champagne, an extra ~127
grams makes sense:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg601

(They made Armstrong take off his helmet, but he slyly wore his
Rolex.)

***

Boonen sort of cared. For the TT, he took off the watch that he wore
for the rest of the Tour and replaced it with a thin and stylish
purple wrist band on the same wrist:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1010
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/17

Even if the Michael-Jackson-mono-style purple-strap cost him, Boonen
finished a respectable 40th in the TT.

***

You can see that Dave Canada really cared. He had a probably empty
aero water bottle on front (probably the better spot for one bottle),
a monster front hub borrowed from an old motorcycle to reduce wind
drag, ultra-aero helmet-visor, sleeve straps around his thumbs, and a
drilled chain ring:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1004

Unfortunately, despite all his attention to detail, Canada finished
137th out of 189 riders, 2:52 behind the winning time of 20:51 for the
19 km/11.6 mile TT.

***

What a big Rolex is to a Texan, a big necklace is to a Frenchman.
Chavanel finished 92nd:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/18

Bonus points for the big sweat bands on his wrists.

***

Cadel Evans _always_ knows what time it is:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/18

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1008

Evans ended up in 35th place.

***

Garate and a handsome wrist watch with its strap sticking up:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/23

Good for 94th place.

***

Landis wears his wedding ring, no matter what:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/11

Don't get me wrong. Floyd's wedding ring is a lot smaller and lighter
than a wrist-watch or necklace, it's probably a lot harder to remove,
and it comes with a hell of a better excuse. That ring didn't hold
Landis back 6 seconds behind Bodrogi, where he finished in 6th place.
I'd hate to be the coach who tried to tell Landis to get rid of that
extra weight.

(Swimmers get rid of their wrist-watches, but any wedding rings
usually stay firmly in place.)

***

Ullrich's TT helmet hides it, but he always wore a ring, too:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour059/24

I doubt that the extra mass kept Ullrich behind Armstrong's Rolex.

Gratuitous photo to remind everyone that the stars like Ullrich are
often awfully nice guys--he didn't even reach the ground here before
they swarmed him:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../?id=tour059/6

Could Ullrich just be just taking every possible advantage with a
cold-blooded plan to recruit future domestiques:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour059/37

Nah. He's just signing autographs for bike-crazy little kids.

***

Back to the stage 1 TT.

Mayo wore a metal bracelet on his right wrist:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/15
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/46

What the heck, Mayo was heading for 175th place.

***

Moreau wore a thin leather bracelet behind his yellow plastic
bracelet:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/20

Moreau was 41st. I always like photos of guys who look like they're
having fun.

***

O'Grady may have worn the biggest watch in the TT:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/39

I wonder if that watch was what put O'Grady in 42nd place, behind
Moreau, despite their same 1:50 time? Maybe Knaven wore even more
things, since Knaven was listed at 43rd place with the same time.

***

Another happy rider with his tongue hanging out in the breeze:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1006

No watch, but he believes in putting a probably empty water bottle on
the seat tube, supposedly a worse position than the down tube. Maybe
disk rear wheel changes the aerodynamics enough to matter?

***

Vinokourov's necklace in one photo and his wrist watch in the other:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/38
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../?id=tour051/8

Bad move--the watch and necklace dropped Vinokourov to third place, 51
seconds behind Armstrong in 2nd place.

Some other photos from the rest of the 2005 TDF . . .

***

Here's Vinokourov with his watch and necklace, stage 14:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0514/18

Nicely framed, the watch didn't hold Vinokourov back much in stage 11:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...KOUROVARRIVO53

***

It's easy to see why Valverde abandoned at stage 13:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../s-valverdeko3

Look at that thing on his wrist!

***

Beloki and the medallion that he wears around his neck:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0510/62

Damn, Beloki looks tired, but probably not from the weight of his
jewelry. Whatever Beloki is wearing, St. Christopher medals are common
in the peloton.

***

Jalabert and _his_ neck jewelry:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...r0516/jalabert

Boonen wore a watch everywhere except the TT's:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour056/65

Fedrigo's watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour053/30

Commesso with a big band of some kind:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg503

Flecha and his watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg502

Bernucci, whose watch and yellow bracelet didn't hold him back:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg614

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...6/S-BERNUCCI20

Pellizotti's watch peeking out from under his sleeve at the start:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour056/45

Kloden with a big watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0511/30

Southpaw Guerini, wears his watch on the right--er, the non-left side:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...ur0515/GUERINI
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...ur0517/guerini

Nice watch, Wrolich! Wonder if it agrees with the clock function of
that cyclocomputer?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1505

Sorenson knows what time it is:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../nickisorensen

Horner, trim that strap!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg2109

Vansevenant's chronometer:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...WIMVANSEVENANT

Jacksche, his watch, and a water-bottle in the second-best position:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...7/jorgjacksche

Rogers makes sure that we know it's a watch, not a heart-monitor:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...upevansummeren

***

Nope, the pros in the TDF don't seem to be quite as obsessed with
squeezing out every last gram and reducing every bit of wind drag as
we might imagine.

Even if they, did, it probably wouldn't change the TDF results unless
they wore cuckoo clocks on each wrist and stole Mr. T's entire
collection of neckwear.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
Ads
  #2  
Old February 17th 09, 08:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ryan Cousineau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,044
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

In article ,
wrote:

In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.

Many of your favorite stars showed their opinion of small but
easy-to-spot weight and wind-drag disadvantages.

Even in a TT where some riders carried empty water bottle for the aero
advantage, lots of riders didn't bother to take off their
wrist-watches or necklaces.

Caution: there's always the possiblity that they might be
wrist-mounted heart-monitors. (Yeah, right.)


I've probably trimmed too much here, and I know you're mostly joking,
but pretty much all of those weird watches appear to be either Polar or
Ciclosport logging heart-rate monitors.

Nope, the pros in the TDF don't seem to be quite as obsessed with
squeezing out every last gram and reducing every bit of wind drag as
we might imagine.

Even if they, did, it probably wouldn't change the TDF results unless
they wore cuckoo clocks on each wrist and stole Mr. T's entire
collection of neckwear.


The pros have proven to be quite willing to give up probable performance
benefits for other reasons. These guys and their trainers do obsess over
the day's data after each stage in some cases, though whether it makes
much difference _during_ the race is another matter. It may be quite
useful for post-mortem analyses, especially for subsequent seasons.

Some riders were doubling up, with a power meter and separate HRM. In
some cases we may have been seeing the results of, for example, using a
power-meter's head unit for speed and time readings, dumping the
power-meter hub for TT gear, but keeping the HRM (and hidden
wrist-strap) to log heart rate.

Nowadays, budgets and bike weights are such that even the all-out
weight-conscious TT and climbing bikes often sport power-measuring
cranks or hubs. You'd probably see fewer separate wrist-mounted
heart-rate monitors if you looked in the last year or so, but a lot more
funny-looking cranks or rear hubs. I might be wrong about that.

--
Ryan Cousineau
http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #4  
Old February 17th 09, 09:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,934
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:09:45 -0800, "Robert Chung"
wrote:

wrote:
In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.


Um, Carl? That was the stage that Zabriskie won by 2 seconds over LANCE. I
think that may have been the only full stage TT that Zabriskie ever won over
Armstong (prologues aren't full stages). Armstrong and Zabriskie shattered
the rest of the field:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-1.png

You think Zabriskie wasn't paying attention to details?

I assure you that guys like Piepoli didn't really care about that stage.


Dear Robert,

"But Armstrong still finished 2 seconds behind Zabriskie, who wore
nothing extra, either."

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
  #5  
Old February 17th 09, 10:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,934
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:41:45 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.

Many of your favorite stars showed their opinion of small but
easy-to-spot weight and wind-drag disadvantages.

Even in a TT where some riders carried empty water bottle for the aero
advantage, lots of riders didn't bother to take off their
wrist-watches or necklaces.

Caution: there's always the possiblity that they might be
wrist-mounted heart-monitors. (Yeah, right.)


I've probably trimmed too much here, and I know you're mostly joking,
but pretty much all of those weird watches appear to be either Polar or
Ciclosport logging heart-rate monitors.

Nope, the pros in the TDF don't seem to be quite as obsessed with
squeezing out every last gram and reducing every bit of wind drag as
we might imagine.

Even if they, did, it probably wouldn't change the TDF results unless
they wore cuckoo clocks on each wrist and stole Mr. T's entire
collection of neckwear.


The pros have proven to be quite willing to give up probable performance
benefits for other reasons. These guys and their trainers do obsess over
the day's data after each stage in some cases, though whether it makes
much difference _during_ the race is another matter. It may be quite
useful for post-mortem analyses, especially for subsequent seasons.

Some riders were doubling up, with a power meter and separate HRM. In
some cases we may have been seeing the results of, for example, using a
power-meter's head unit for speed and time readings, dumping the
power-meter hub for TT gear, but keeping the HRM (and hidden
wrist-strap) to log heart rate.

Nowadays, budgets and bike weights are such that even the all-out
weight-conscious TT and climbing bikes often sport power-measuring
cranks or hubs. You'd probably see fewer separate wrist-mounted
heart-rate monitors if you looked in the last year or so, but a lot more
funny-looking cranks or rear hubs. I might be wrong about that.


Dear Ryan,

Some may be--hard to tell for sure from the photos alone.

But to compress a bit . . .

Armstrong wore a Rolex with dial hands for most stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/26

That's just after a stage, but you can see it in photo after photo
when he's riding stages.

It turns out to be common knowledge:

http://www.melrosejewelers.com/rolex...our-de-france/

Armstrong's Rolex GMT Master II probably weighs 127 grams:
http://www.replicawatchesreviews.com/Rolex-GMT.html

I don't think that the necklaces have any digital technology for the
TT:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/38

Nor for the other stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0514/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...r0516/jalabert

Vinokourov is wearing a chest-band with the thingy on his wrist, so I
think it may be for telling time.

Two unrelated watch stories . . .

Sam Whittingham said that at one point he complained about how his
wrist watch was hitting the side of the fairing inside the Varna
Diablo. The designer said to leave it off, and modified the damn thing
to be just that little bit narrower.

"Before crossing the finish line [stage 11 1951 TDF] Koblet took a
sponge, wiped his face, and combed his hair. He had used the comb as a
psychological weapon before. In the Tour of Switzerland he had combed
his hair on the hardest climb to give the impression of ease. In
reality he was suffering with hemorrhoids. But it fooled his rival,
Francois Mahe, who gave up trying to stay with him."

"Koblet then calmly got off his bike and started his stopwatch to see
what advantage he had gained over the field, a move that was not just
for show. He had reason to mistrust the timekeepers as his experience
in stage 7 shows. He wanted no repeat of that mistake. [A timekeeper
initially gave the TT win to Bobet, until Koblet protested and pointed
out that intermediate timing records made Bobet's alleged time
physically impossible. When the timekeeper changed his decision,
Koblet's 85-km TT time was still so fast that 12 riders were cut for
being outside the time limit--yikes!]"

--p. 176-7, "The Story of the Tour de France, Vol. 1," Bill McGann

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

  #6  
Old February 17th 09, 04:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ryan Cousineau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,044
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:41:45 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.

Many of your favorite stars showed their opinion of small but
easy-to-spot weight and wind-drag disadvantages.

Even in a TT where some riders carried empty water bottle for the aero
advantage, lots of riders didn't bother to take off their
wrist-watches or necklaces.

Caution: there's always the possiblity that they might be
wrist-mounted heart-monitors. (Yeah, right.)


I've probably trimmed too much here, and I know you're mostly joking,
but pretty much all of those weird watches appear to be either Polar or
Ciclosport logging heart-rate monitors.

Nope, the pros in the TDF don't seem to be quite as obsessed with
squeezing out every last gram and reducing every bit of wind drag as
we might imagine.

Even if they, did, it probably wouldn't change the TDF results unless
they wore cuckoo clocks on each wrist and stole Mr. T's entire
collection of neckwear.


The pros have proven to be quite willing to give up probable performance
benefits for other reasons. These guys and their trainers do obsess over
the day's data after each stage in some cases, though whether it makes
much difference _during_ the race is another matter. It may be quite
useful for post-mortem analyses, especially for subsequent seasons.

Some riders were doubling up, with a power meter and separate HRM. In
some cases we may have been seeing the results of, for example, using a
power-meter's head unit for speed and time readings, dumping the
power-meter hub for TT gear, but keeping the HRM (and hidden
wrist-strap) to log heart rate.


[Er, "chest-strap." The receiver is a watch-like thing that can be
bar-mounted or wrist-mounted]

Nowadays, budgets and bike weights are such that even the all-out
weight-conscious TT and climbing bikes often sport power-measuring
cranks or hubs. You'd probably see fewer separate wrist-mounted
heart-rate monitors if you looked in the last year or so, but a lot more
funny-looking cranks or rear hubs. I might be wrong about that.


Dear Ryan,

Some may be--hard to tell for sure from the photos alone.

But to compress a bit . . .

Armstrong wore a Rolex with dial hands for most stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/26

That's just after a stage, but you can see it in photo after photo
when he's riding stages.


I am now going to dig myself a little deeper here, and spread a little
confusion. That photo above was just after a stage, but as you can see
it was after a stage when he wore the yellow jersey:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...esults/tour055

So he's already changed his shirt and put on a hat. Has he changed his
watch?

I can't believe the race photographers don't spend more time documenting
the rider's chronometers. It seems a real loss. We keep getting Loch
Ness photos like this one:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...S-ARMSTRONGGIA
LLO946

Rolex? Polar? Nike Lance Armstrong 4? I can't tell...

http://www.gems4me.com/nilaar4.html

It turns out to be common knowledge:

http://www.melrosejewelers.com/rolex...and-his-rolex-

embrace-fatherhood-and-the-tour-de-france/

Armstrong's Rolex GMT Master II probably weighs 127 grams:
http://www.replicawatchesreviews.com/Rolex-GMT.html

I don't think that the necklaces have any digital technology for the
TT:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/38

Nor for the other stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0514/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...r0516/jalabert

Vinokourov is wearing a chest-band with the thingy on his wrist, so I
think it may be for telling time.


Do you mean it the other way around? The chest band is a transmitter,
there's a receiver somewhere on his bike. He has both a bar-mounted
cyclocomputer and a wris****ch. The wrist accessory looks a bit like
this one:

http://www.pccoach.com/products/hrms/hrm_S720.htm

Very spiffy; I own one myself.

The jewelry is indisputable. I don't think any of that looks like a
logging awesomeness-meter.

Back to Lance, he's a little inconsistent:
No watch:
http://www.atomicsportsmedia.com/new...0Armstrong.jpg

watch:
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...0armstrong.jpg

Watch that looks a lot more like a Rolex than an HRM:
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/e...g/p1_lance_091
2.jpg

But I have an explanation: this is the substantially ceremonial final
stage. Lance doesn't even have a cyclocomputer on the bars. But he does
have some pretty serious aero wheels, probably because the
non-ceremonial part of the ride is to stay with the peloton all the way
to the finish, despite the fact that some impertinent types who are not
Lance may try to win the stage!

http://www.threesources.com/pix/lance_armstrong.jpg
Definitely a Rolex. Unidentified hydration beverage in other hand.

Can't see the watch face. Can see the un-Rolex rubber watchstrap:
http://www.thesportstruth.com/wp-con...ance_armstrong
_actionsized.jpg

Probably a Rolex. That looks pretty conclusively like a metal wristband
to me:
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/79/91779-004-C90EB1BF.jpg

Certainly not a Rolex:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/20...408_wideweb__4
30x335.jpg

?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...lance_armstron
g_247.jpg

This year, Lance has started reading rbt and is eschewing a wris****ch:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-01/44606806.jpg

Submitted without comment:
http://www.singletracks.com/blog/wp-...9/lance-armstr
ong-mountain-bike.jpg

Two unrelated watch stories . . .

Sam Whittingham said that at one point he complained about how his
wrist watch was hitting the side of the fairing inside the Varna
Diablo. The designer said to leave it off, and modified the damn thing
to be just that little bit narrower.

"Before crossing the finish line [stage 11 1951 TDF] Koblet took a
sponge, wiped his face, and combed his hair. He had used the comb as a
psychological weapon before. In the Tour of Switzerland he had combed
his hair on the hardest climb to give the impression of ease. In
reality he was suffering with hemorrhoids. But it fooled his rival,
Francois Mahe, who gave up trying to stay with him."

"Koblet then calmly got off his bike and started his stopwatch to see
what advantage he had gained over the field, a move that was not just
for show. He had reason to mistrust the timekeepers as his experience
in stage 7 shows. He wanted no repeat of that mistake. [A timekeeper
initially gave the TT win to Bobet, until Koblet protested and pointed
out that intermediate timing records made Bobet's alleged time
physically impossible. When the timekeeper changed his decision,
Koblet's 85-km TT time was still so fast that 12 riders were cut for
being outside the time limit--yikes!]"

--p. 176-7, "The Story of the Tour de France, Vol. 1," Bill McGann


Lovely.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #7  
Old February 17th 09, 06:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Robert Chung[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 814
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:09:45 -0800, "Robert Chung"
wrote:

wrote:
In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.


Um, Carl? That was the stage that Zabriskie won by 2 seconds over
LANCE. I think that may have been the only full stage TT that
Zabriskie ever won over Armstong (prologues aren't full stages).
Armstrong and Zabriskie shattered the rest of the field:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-1.png

You think Zabriskie wasn't paying attention to details?

I assure you that guys like Piepoli didn't really care about that
stage.


Dear Robert,

"But Armstrong still finished 2 seconds behind Zabriskie, who wore
nothing extra, either."


Carl,

Armstrong had refused to use the "narrow" Trek TT bike, probably because
he'd been listening to you and Frank and thought the difference was
negligible. That was a mistake that he could have gotten away with for the
rest of the field. Meanwhile, Zabriskie was using a Cervelo P3C. And,
Zabriskie rode bare-handed.


  #8  
Old February 17th 09, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Robert Chung[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 814
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

I wrote:

Carl wrote:


"But Armstrong still finished 2 seconds behind Zabriskie, who wore
nothing extra, either."


Carl,

Armstrong had refused to use the "narrow" Trek TT bike, probably
because he'd been listening to you and Frank and thought the
difference was negligible. That was a mistake that he could have
gotten away with for the rest of the field. Meanwhile, Zabriskie was
using a Cervelo P3C. And, Zabriskie rode bare-handed.


I just checked. Here are the time gaps for Armstrong in all TdF ITTs from
1999 to 2005.
"Year","stage","km","gap","gap/km"
1999,0,6.8,7,1.03
1999,8,56.5,57,1.01
1999,19,57,9,0.16
2000,1,16.5,-2,-0.12
2000,19,58.5,25,0.43
2001,0,8.2,-4,-0.49
2001,11,32,60,1.88
2001,18,61,84,1.38
2002,0,7,2,0.29
2002,9,52,-11,-0.21
2002,19,50,52,1.04
2003,0,6.5,-7.4,-1.14
2003,12,47,-96,-2.04
2003,19,49,-14,-0.29
2004,0,6.1,-2,-0.33
2004,16,15.5,61,3.94
2004,19,55,61,1.11
2005,1,19,-2,-0.11
2005,20,55,23,0.42

As you can see, Armstrong lost the first stage of the 2005 TdF by about a
tenth of a second per km. At the speed these guys were going, that's a bit
less than 10g of drag. If Armstrong had been able to drop 10 more grams of
drag, or if Zabriskie hadn't, the results would've been different.
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-1.png



  #9  
Old February 18th 09, 01:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 7,934
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:48:27 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:41:45 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

In the enormous 23 vs 25 mm thread, I grew curious about whether the
pros actually pay attention to every detail because they think that
even the tiniest differences might mean the margin of victory.

Here's a light-hearted look at some tiny details of stage 1 of the
2005 TDF, a ~21~25=minute 19-km TT with the most extreme bikes,
helmets, and costumes in the Tour.

Many of your favorite stars showed their opinion of small but
easy-to-spot weight and wind-drag disadvantages.

Even in a TT where some riders carried empty water bottle for the aero
advantage, lots of riders didn't bother to take off their
wrist-watches or necklaces.

Caution: there's always the possiblity that they might be
wrist-mounted heart-monitors. (Yeah, right.)

I've probably trimmed too much here, and I know you're mostly joking,
but pretty much all of those weird watches appear to be either Polar or
Ciclosport logging heart-rate monitors.

Nope, the pros in the TDF don't seem to be quite as obsessed with
squeezing out every last gram and reducing every bit of wind drag as
we might imagine.

Even if they, did, it probably wouldn't change the TDF results unless
they wore cuckoo clocks on each wrist and stole Mr. T's entire
collection of neckwear.

The pros have proven to be quite willing to give up probable performance
benefits for other reasons. These guys and their trainers do obsess over
the day's data after each stage in some cases, though whether it makes
much difference _during_ the race is another matter. It may be quite
useful for post-mortem analyses, especially for subsequent seasons.

Some riders were doubling up, with a power meter and separate HRM. In
some cases we may have been seeing the results of, for example, using a
power-meter's head unit for speed and time readings, dumping the
power-meter hub for TT gear, but keeping the HRM (and hidden
wrist-strap) to log heart rate.


[Er, "chest-strap." The receiver is a watch-like thing that can be
bar-mounted or wrist-mounted]

Nowadays, budgets and bike weights are such that even the all-out
weight-conscious TT and climbing bikes often sport power-measuring
cranks or hubs. You'd probably see fewer separate wrist-mounted
heart-rate monitors if you looked in the last year or so, but a lot more
funny-looking cranks or rear hubs. I might be wrong about that.


Dear Ryan,

Some may be--hard to tell for sure from the photos alone.

But to compress a bit . . .

Armstrong wore a Rolex with dial hands for most stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/26

That's just after a stage, but you can see it in photo after photo
when he's riding stages.


I am now going to dig myself a little deeper here, and spread a little
confusion. That photo above was just after a stage, but as you can see
it was after a stage when he wore the yellow jersey:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...esults/tour055

So he's already changed his shirt and put on a hat. Has he changed his
watch?

I can't believe the race photographers don't spend more time documenting
the rider's chronometers. It seems a real loss. We keep getting Loch
Ness photos like this one:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...S-ARMSTRONGGIA
LLO946

Rolex? Polar? Nike Lance Armstrong 4? I can't tell...

http://www.gems4me.com/nilaar4.html

It turns out to be common knowledge:

http://www.melrosejewelers.com/rolex...and-his-rolex-

embrace-fatherhood-and-the-tour-de-france/

Armstrong's Rolex GMT Master II probably weighs 127 grams:
http://www.replicawatchesreviews.com/Rolex-GMT.html

I don't think that the necklaces have any digital technology for the
TT:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour051/38

Nor for the other stages:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0514/18
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...r0516/jalabert

Vinokourov is wearing a chest-band with the thingy on his wrist, so I
think it may be for telling time.


Do you mean it the other way around? The chest band is a transmitter,
there's a receiver somewhere on his bike. He has both a bar-mounted
cyclocomputer and a wris****ch. The wrist accessory looks a bit like
this one:

http://www.pccoach.com/products/hrms/hrm_S720.htm

Very spiffy; I own one myself.

The jewelry is indisputable. I don't think any of that looks like a
logging awesomeness-meter.

Back to Lance, he's a little inconsistent:
No watch:
http://www.atomicsportsmedia.com/new...0Armstrong.jpg

watch:
http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/...0armstrong.jpg

Watch that looks a lot more like a Rolex than an HRM:
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/e...g/p1_lance_091
2.jpg

But I have an explanation: this is the substantially ceremonial final
stage. Lance doesn't even have a cyclocomputer on the bars. But he does
have some pretty serious aero wheels, probably because the
non-ceremonial part of the ride is to stay with the peloton all the way
to the finish, despite the fact that some impertinent types who are not
Lance may try to win the stage!

http://www.threesources.com/pix/lance_armstrong.jpg
Definitely a Rolex. Unidentified hydration beverage in other hand.

Can't see the watch face. Can see the un-Rolex rubber watchstrap:
http://www.thesportstruth.com/wp-con...ance_armstrong
_actionsized.jpg

Probably a Rolex. That looks pretty conclusively like a metal wristband
to me:
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/79/91779-004-C90EB1BF.jpg

Certainly not a Rolex:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/20...408_wideweb__4
30x335.jpg

?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...lance_armstron
g_247.jpg

This year, Lance has started reading rbt and is eschewing a wris****ch:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-01/44606806.jpg

Submitted without comment:
http://www.singletracks.com/blog/wp-...9/lance-armstr
ong-mountain-bike.jpg

Two unrelated watch stories . . .

Sam Whittingham said that at one point he complained about how his
wrist watch was hitting the side of the fairing inside the Varna
Diablo. The designer said to leave it off, and modified the damn thing
to be just that little bit narrower.

"Before crossing the finish line [stage 11 1951 TDF] Koblet took a
sponge, wiped his face, and combed his hair. He had used the comb as a
psychological weapon before. In the Tour of Switzerland he had combed
his hair on the hardest climb to give the impression of ease. In
reality he was suffering with hemorrhoids. But it fooled his rival,
Francois Mahe, who gave up trying to stay with him."

"Koblet then calmly got off his bike and started his stopwatch to see
what advantage he had gained over the field, a move that was not just
for show. He had reason to mistrust the timekeepers as his experience
in stage 7 shows. He wanted no repeat of that mistake. [A timekeeper
initially gave the TT win to Bobet, until Koblet protested and pointed
out that intermediate timing records made Bobet's alleged time
physically impossible. When the timekeeper changed his decision,
Koblet's 85-km TT time was still so fast that 12 riders were cut for
being outside the time limit--yikes!]"

--p. 176-7, "The Story of the Tour de France, Vol. 1," Bill McGann


Lovely.


Dear Ryan,

A stage-by-stage gallery of Armstrong in the 2005 TDF, looking for
that thing-on-his-left-wrist

(Call it a watch for short, with the understanding that someone may
spot details showing that it's sometimes a heart-rate monitor.)

It disappeared on 6 stages:
01 TT
04 TT
10 Galibier
14 Pyrenees
15 Pyrenees
20 TT

Stage 01, no watch, TT:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg1013

Stage 02, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...52/ARMSTRONG98

Stage 03, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour053/31

Stage 04, no watch, TT:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20..._discoveryline

Stage 05, watch before or after, at sign-in, autographs, finish line:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/26
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../?id=tour055/1
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/20
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour055/61

Stage 06, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour056/52

Stage 07, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../JD05tdfstg705

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...S-ARMSTRONG630

Stage 08, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...TRONGGIALLO113

Stage 09, watch at sign-in and finish-line:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour059/21
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour059/66

Stage 10, no watch, Galibier:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour0510/9

Stage 11, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour0511/7

Stage 12, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...ONGHINCAPIE290

Stage 13, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...05-csc-arms-28

Stage 14, no watch, Pyrenees:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...?id=tour0514/4

Stage 15, no watch, Pyrenees:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...TRONGBASSO-886

Stage 16, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0516/20

Stage 17, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...05-armstron-62

Stage 18, watch:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...TRONGBASSO9787

Stage 19, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0519/17

Stage 20, no watch, TT:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...JD05tdfstg2005

Stage 21, watch:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...id=tour0521/85

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
  #10  
Old February 18th 09, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Since even the tiniest details matter . . .

On Feb 17, 2:36*pm, "Robert Chung"
wrote:


As you can see, Armstrong lost the first stage of the 2005 TdF by about a
tenth of a second per km. At the speed these guys were going, that's a bit
less than 10g of drag. If Armstrong had been able to drop 10 more grams of
drag, or if Zabriskie hadn't, the results would've been different.http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-1.png


Hmm. Still fixating on time trials, I see, as if that's the only
thing that matters. Did you forget that I've been discussing other
types of riding, like mass-start road races?

Still, I think you should write to Lance and offer him advice. I'm
sure he'll recognize your "nothing is negligible" expertise as being
vastly superior to that of his current technical advisors.

You know, the ones that let him wear a watch.

- Frank Krygowski
 




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