Compulsory Hi-Vis

In the latest e-mail from CTC comes the news that the french are
insisting that cyclists wear a Hi-Vis vest under certain circumstances.
As I was considering doing some touring over there later this year I
feel the need to know more of the detail. The CTC bit reads as follows:

The latest French Fashion
Not quite as earth shattering as the introduction of compulsory helmet
wearing in Spain, France will insist, from 1 September 2008, that all
cyclists wear a hi-visibility vest outside of towns at night and in poor
light. What’s more, the vest has to conform to a European standard.
Click here to find out all about it.

The 'Click here' takes you to
'http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/05/warning-triangl.html'
which contains a loose translation of a french document. The translation
is criticised by some readers in the replies section as being incorrect
about when the Hi-Vis needs to be worn.

Anybody know any more about this?
Terry Duckmanton

Ace wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:24:09 +0100, Terry Duckmanton
wrote:


Searching the .gouv.fr sites, I found this
http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr..._13-02-08.html

"La sécurité des cyclistes sera améliorée par le port obligatoire d’un
gilet rétro-réfléchissant la nuit et hors agglomération. "

Which confirms the above. And annoys tyhe hell out of me. I rarely
cycle at night, but it's my intention when I regain my full fitness to
cycle the 25km to work much moer often, and that may indeed mean I'll
be cycling home in the dark. And I'm ****ed if I'll wear a stupid
vest.


Also "Une campagne d’incitation au port du casque pour les cyclistes
notamment pour les enfants sera réalisée. "

So no helmet law, but a campaign to encourage their use.

So "le port obligatoire" means 'wearing' as opposed to 'carrying' a
reflective plastic body bag? Sounds like a recipe for
boil-in-the-bag-cyclist to me.

Did you find anything which gives us a clue as to the design of these
devices? I noticed references to European Standards somewhere in the blurb.

Terry Duckmanton

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:24:09 +0100, Terry Duckmanton
wrote:

In the latest e-mail from CTC comes the news that the french are
insisting that cyclists wear a Hi-Vis vest under certain circumstances.
As I was considering doing some touring over there later this year I
feel the need to know more of the detail. The CTC bit reads as follows:

The latest French Fashion
Not quite as earth shattering as the introduction of compulsory helmet
wearing in Spain, France will insist, from 1 September 2008, that all
cyclists wear a hi-visibility vest outside of towns at night and in poor
light. What’s more, the vest has to conform to a European standard.
Click here to find out all about it.


It's a pity that the CTC cannot be absolutely definite on what is
needed - it would save everyone else having to try and interpret from
the French.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:40:31 +0100, judith
said in :

It's a pity that the CTC cannot be absolutely definite on what is
needed - it would save everyone else having to try and interpret from
the French.

As far as I can tell the French don't actually know what it means,
really, this is something that was raised with no real consultation
and nobody seems to have a clue what it's about. I do know that CTC
is talking to the French ministry and cycling bodies about it, as
well as to ECF. But of course we should not let things like
policies produced without consultation in another country in the
middle of the summer holidays interfere with bashing CTC, should we?
After all, it's not like they are a charity run by a very small
staff or anything.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Ace wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:24:02 +0100, Terry Duckmanton
wrote:


Did you find anything which gives us a clue as to the design of these
devices? I noticed references to European Standards somewhere in the blurb.

No actual details, but "Ce gilet doit être conforme à la directive
89/686/CEE du Conseil du 21 décembre 1989 concernant le rapprochement
des législations des Etats membres relatives aux EPI (équipements de
protection individuelle). Cette conformité est attestée par le
marquage C E apposé sur le gilet et par la présence d'une notice
d'instruction."

I don't need to translate, I hope? In practice, I gather, from
elsewhere, that they're not going to be too bothered about the CE
marking, as long as it looks OK.


At least it sounds like the gilet could be open to interpretation. I
could just about cope with a few strips of reflective material sewn onto
a normal cycling top. I am not enamoured with the idea of having to put
a plastic gilet over a normal top every time it looks like rain.

Let's just hope the French see sense and change their minds about this
before the British government sees it as a good idea worth copying.

Terry Duckmanton

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:22:03 +0100
Terry Duckmanton wrote:

I am not enamoured with the idea of having
to put a plastic gilet over a normal top every time it looks like
rain.

So wear a mesh one.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:11:38 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:40:31 +0100, judith
said in :

It's a pity that the CTC cannot be absolutely definite on what is
needed - it would save everyone else having to try and interpret from
the French.

As far as I can tell the French don't actually know what it means,
really, this is something that was raised with no real consultation
andAs far as I can tell the French don't actually know what it means,. I do know that CTC
is talking to the French ministry and cycling bodies about it, as
well as to ECF. But of course we should not let things like
policies produced without consultation in another country in the
middle of the summer holidays interfere with bashing CTC, should we?
After all, it's not like they are a charity run by a very small
staff or anything.

Guy



"As far as I can tell the French don't actually know what it means"

It must be a very badly worded piece of legislation - has someone told
you that nobody has a clue about it?

(I'm awfully sorry - I did not know people were not allowed to
criticise CTC - is it not the done thing - are they always beyond
reproach - no matter what they say, do, or don't do)

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:41:56 +0100, judith
said in :

---8----

You need some of this: Clue.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

judith wrote:

(I'm awfully sorry - I did not know people were not allowed to
criticise CTC - is it not the done thing - are they always beyond
reproach - no matter what they say, do, or don't do)

The new copy of Cycle landed yesterday, haven't spent that much
time with it but I did notice a piece inviting people to put
themselves forward for the Council, and a partner piece saying why
you might. And you might because it gives you direct input to policy.
So if you think they haven't got a clue and should spend their time
researching French laws of little consequence to the vast majority
of the membership and publicising the results with some degree of
high priority on the website why don't you do something about it,
join and go for the council to put things right? As the saying
goes, "don't vote? don't bitch".

You're moaning about their uselessness when it's concerning a law
in a foreign country... It might be of relevance to the Touring
Department, so of course you /have/ asked Mark in the Touring
Department as a member, using the contact methods they provide?
No? So isn't your bitching just a bit premature?

Odd in the light of the above that anyone criticising Judith for,
say, behaving like a petulant child who thinks the world ought to
revolve around her and small organisations with limited resources
to which she has made no useful input have nothing better to do
than go out of their way to answer her questions even when they
make little real sense or are rather beyond their remit in any case
will get screamed at, as if by a petulant child sho thinks the
world etc. etc.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Rob Morley wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:22:03 +0100
Terry Duckmanton wrote:

I am not enamoured with the idea of having
to put a plastic gilet over a normal top every time it looks like
rain.

So wear a mesh one.


I would prefer not to have to wear one at all. At least for the moment I
can choose not to go to France and avoid the issue that way.

Terry Duckmanton