IDIOTS ON BIKES ARE NOT AS DANGEROUS

Tom Keats wrote:
In article .uk,
(The Older Gentleman) writes:
Vito wrote:

But a good start would be moving freight off of our highways and
back onto our rail roads.

Oh, that old chestnut. Dream on. If it was that easy and
cost-effective it would have been done.

It actually was done, once upon a time.

if done again, car drivers would raise such a big
stink about abundant trains stopping them at
RR crossings, we'd be back to where we are now.

Boo-hoo, I can't drive my single-occupant car
anywhere 'cuz there's this big goddamned train
in my way, taking goods to a place where I won't
benefit. Life sux. All I can do is whine &
gripe and bellyache. So I will. /That/ should
evoke some political action in my favour.
Screw everybody else. Me, me, me!

Heh.
I just stole Jack May's thunder.
Well, he might have an insignificant
fart left in him. But we all know how
to deal with other people's farts.

As for Vito's statement that: "People seek
comfort and convenience," well, people are
willing to pay for convenience, up to a point.
Especially in North America, where convenience
is de rigeur. But there comes a point where
cost becomes a consideration.

Earth to Keats--42 percent of US intercity freight is moved by rail, 13
percent by water, 17 percent by pipeline, and the remaining 28 percent by
truck. The percentage in the US is increasing.

In the poster child of the railfans, the EU, only _8_ (yes, a single digit)
percent of intercity freight is carried by rail and that percentage is
declining.

So your notion that the US "used" to move freight by rail and doesn't
anymore is just plain _wrong_.

"J. Clarke" wrote
Tom Keats wrote:
(The Older Gentleman) writes:
Vito wrote:

But a good start would be moving freight off of our highways and
back onto our rail roads.

Oh, that old chestnut. Dream on. If it was that easy and
cost-effective it would have been done.

It actually was done, once upon a time.

if done again, car drivers would raise such a big
stink about abundant trains stopping them at
RR crossings, we'd be back to where we are now.

Boo-hoo, I can't drive my single-occupant car
anywhere 'cuz there's this big goddamned train
in my way,.......

Earth to Keats--42 percent of US intercity freight is moved by rail, 13
percent by water, 17 percent by pipeline, and the remaining 28 percent by
truck. The percentage in the US is increasing.

In the poster child of the railfans, the EU, only _8_ (yes, a single
digit) percent of intercity freight is carried by rail and that percentage
is declining.

So your notion that the US "used" to move freight by rail and doesn't
anymore is just plain _wrong_.

A history buff I knew blamed the US situation on Prohibition claiming that
Maphioso bought trucks to move illegal booze. When Prohibition ended they
muscled into legit trucking. During WW2 Lucky Luchiano's people helped Ike
in Sicily and Italy. Our interstate system was a pay back, making trucks
cheaper than rail 'cuz rail had to finance their own roads. He had studied
how much loaded 18-wheelers wear the roads and claimed that intercity
trucking would disappear if they were charged a fair tax to pay for it. He
had figures but I never validated them so YMMV.

On 2009-03-22, Vito wrote:

wrote
Jack May wrote:
PUBLIC TRANSIT IS ONLY PUSHED BY TOTAL MORONS ....

I must assume that you have never traveled in a country or area where
mass transit is the prime means of transportation. ....

There is much truth on both sides.

Public transport can be great provided it goes to, from and when one needs
it - which is seldom the case in the US.

Mostly due to a lack of funding for public transit and generous
subsidies to support private automobile infrastructure.

--

John )

Tom Keats wrote:

Oh, that old chestnut. Dream on. If it was that easy and cost-effective
it would have been done.

It actually was done, once upon a time.

Yes, it was. In the days before a massive highway network. Before huge
supermarkets selling every type of goods, with temperature control of
products[1] a norm. Before the era of huge trucks offering superb
flexibility.

How long does it take to lay on a train? Ask someone, sometime. How
long does it take to lay on a truck? How quickly can you pick up a
phone?

Then there's the small matter of getting goods *from* the railheads *to*
the stores and elsewhere. Er, how are you going to do that? With trucks?
Bingo.

Seriously, rail freight is very good for some things. Large bulk loads
that need to be moved at high speed very long distances, for a start.
For consumer JIT distribution, and that's what we're talking here,
forget it.

if done again, car drivers would raise such a big
stink about abundant trains stopping them at
RR crossings, we'd be back to where we are now.

You do talk tripe.

[1] I'm talking chilled here, before you start yammering about how ice
cream was available nationwide 100 years ago.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SH50 Triumph Street Triple
GHPOTHUF#1 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing is more dangerous than an ignoramus with a workshop
manual, a 'can-do' attitude and a cheap set of tools

The Older Gentleman wrote:
:: Yes, but it's a pity that Jobst said this:
::
:: "In most of Europe most large cities have no more car traffic in
:: town"
::
:: Which is utter nonsense and suggests he's never been in a large
:: European city in his life.

I, too, wondered why he would say such a thing. There are some factors he
has left out; the most important being the difference in the way that
European cities "grew up" and the way that American cities did. It's
comparing apples to oranges and does not mean that we "bad" Americans simply
love cars or love to pollute. It's much, much more complex that just
"US=bad, Europe=good."

I used to live in Frankfurt am Main, and it had plenty of car traffic in
town.

Pat in TX

John Thompson writes:
Public transport can be great provided it goes to, from and when one needs
it - which is seldom the case in the US.

Mostly due to a lack of funding for public transit and generous
subsidies to support private automobile infrastructure.

.... not to mention:

(1) Development patterns overwhelmingly favoring the auto (a vicious
cycle obviously), making it harder to establish effective public
transport even when there is funding

(2) Custom -- people have grown up in an auto-oriented world, they're
used to autos, auto-oriented development, and many are fearful and
suspicious of anything different (though not usually a basket case
like jack may of course)

(3) Culture -- for many people, their car is a fashion statement as
much as it is a mode of transportation; one is constantly
bombarded with slick advertising pushing cars as a status symbol

....etc

The U.S. is a pretty messed-up place...

-Miles

--
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without
individual responsibility.

In article ,
"J. Clarke" writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article .uk,
(The Older Gentleman) writes:
Vito wrote:

But a good start would be moving freight off of our highways and
back onto our rail roads.

Oh, that old chestnut. Dream on. If it was that easy and
cost-effective it would have been done.

It actually was done, once upon a time.

if done again, car drivers would raise such a big
stink about abundant trains stopping them at
RR crossings, we'd be back to where we are now.

Boo-hoo, I can't drive my single-occupant car
anywhere 'cuz there's this big goddamned train
in my way, taking goods to a place where I won't
benefit. Life sux. All I can do is whine &
gripe and bellyache. So I will. /That/ should
evoke some political action in my favour.
Screw everybody else. Me, me, me!

Heh.
I just stole Jack May's thunder.
Well, he might have an insignificant
fart left in him. But we all know how
to deal with other people's farts.

As for Vito's statement that: "People seek
comfort and convenience," well, people are
willing to pay for convenience, up to a point.
Especially in North America, where convenience
is de rigeur. But there comes a point where
cost becomes a consideration.

Earth to Keats--42 percent of US intercity freight is moved by rail, 13
percent by water, 17 percent by pipeline, and the remaining 28 percent by
truck. The percentage in the US is increasing.

In the poster child of the railfans, the EU, only _8_ (yes, a single digit)
percent of intercity freight is carried by rail and that percentage is
declining.

So your notion that the US "used" to move freight by rail and doesn't
anymore is just plain _wrong_.

I never made such an assertion;
upthread, Vito wrote:
"But a good start would be moving freight off of our highways and back onto
our rail roads."

And he's right: there is a lot of freight rolling on the
highways, and not just LTLs. I live in a port city and
work in a logistics operations warehouse, receiving
marine containers offloaded from overseas ships and
transported to our warehouse by trucks. Those goods
are then loaded into rail containers and taken away
from our warehouse by trucks.

Your assertion that there are no freight-hauling
semi's on on the US's (or Canada's) roads is
just plain _wrong_.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Mar 22, 3:17*pm, John Thompson wrote:
On 2009-03-22, Vito wrote:

wrote
Jack May wrote:
PUBLIC TRANSIT IS ONLY PUSHED BY TOTAL MORONS ....

I must assume that you have never traveled in a country or area where
mass transit is the prime means of transportation. ....
There is much truth on both sides.

Public transport can be great provided it goes to, from and when one needs
it - which is seldom the case in the US. *

Mostly due to a lack of funding for public transit and generous
subsidies to support private automobile infrastructure.


Bull. Pure BULL. Tell me oh great font of such brilliant BULL...where
the hell is the public transport in Montana...no not those
californicating faries in billing, bozeman, missoula, kalispell/
whitefish. Where is it for teh rest of us? OR Idaho, NM, ND & SD? Well
smart ass? You have the answers put or or shove off.

Public transport ONLY works in major cities and some metro areas...
Other than that it's a bigg pipe dream just like peace in our time
used to be 90 years ago...we've just finished one of teh most VIOLENT
centuries EVER.

So from where I sit adn the places I've lived with and without PT. You
don't know your push bike from your ultra-highspeed rail.

the real answer for moving individuals over 2 miles is a motorcycle.
For anything over three people a car is needed. Only an idiot thinks
that PT is the cure...
--
Keith

On Mar 22, 5:27*pm, Miles Bader wrote:
John Thompson writes:
Public transport can be great provided it goes to, from and when one needs
it - which is seldom the case in the US. *

Mostly due to a lack of funding for public transit and generous
subsidies to support private automobile infrastructure.

... not to mention:

* (1) Development patterns overwhelmingly favoring the auto (a vicious
* * * cycle obviously), making it harder to establish effective public
* * * transport even when there is funding

* (2) Custom -- people have grown up in an auto-oriented world, they're
* * * used to autos, auto-oriented development, and many are fearful and
* * * suspicious of anything different (though not usually a basket case
* * * like jack may of course)

* (3) Culture -- for many people, their car is a fashion statement as
* * * much as it is a mode of transportation; one is constantly
* * * bombarded with slick advertising pushing cars as a status symbol

...etc

The U.S. is a pretty messed-up place...

All you said is I'm right. Public transport can't work, cars are for
idiots and motorcycles are likely the cure. Well that and from what
I've seen sheep don't ride. You start riding and the wool comes off
your eyes and out of your ears.
--
Keith

In article ,
Schiffner writes:

So from where I sit adn the places I've lived with and without PT. You
don't know your push bike from your ultra-highspeed rail.

Try sitting down and living without TP.

the real answer for moving individuals over 2 miles is a motorcycle.
For anything over three people a car is needed. Only an idiot thinks
that PT is the cure...

The 3rd person can get their own bicycle and a 4th person if
need be. And their own TP.

Vancouver's SkyTrain and bus system gets me across four
municipalities (Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster, Coquitlam
to work, and it's lovely, although I wish I could ride my
bike there. Maybe someday I'll do the multi-modal thing.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca