Riders I meet

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Mar 17, 8:42*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:07*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Yeah, cordiality is at the extreme end of the nice scale. I was
driving in Austin once and kept making all kinds of mistakes since I
was lost, the people behind me were being extremely polite and patient
to the point of being irritating. I felt that I needed to be curse but
nobody would do so. I needed some balance. I didn't want to be in NYC,
where I would have been shot and run over.

By population, where do you think someone is more likely to be shot --
NYC or Texas?

Don't know.

If you don't know, why are you suggesting there is some likelihood or
increased chance of being shot in NYC?


It was metaphorical. My brother, my step son and daughter in law and
my grand-kids and my cousin live in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I go there
quite often, and I know that I will not get shot. However, if I drive
lost in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc I will be killed by the
insults which is something that would not happen in Austin. So, don't
be so sensitive. I am not saying that Austin is better. I was
irritated by too much politeness there. So, take a chill pill eze.

No, I won't chill if you like using a metaphor that disses where I
live. It's obnoxious stereotyping that should be denounced.

Chalo wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
Chalo wrote:
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

Your comments would have weight if you had lived and
flourished in New York City. Rather than speaking from
knowledge you, repeat folk tales.

I have visited there many times since the 1980s. And each time I have
wondered, "whatsamatta wit dese people?!" They're brusque to the
point of rudeness even when they're being nice by local standards.
And they drive like they're on a cocktail of methamphetamine and
pepper spray.

To judge by the inhabitants of Manhattan, what it takes to flourish
there is thick skin and hypercriticality. So, thanks, but I'll be
happy to flourish in a proudly weird and overtly friendly place
instead.

My experience is that there are noticeable regional cultural
differences. I've often wondered why. My guess is that the attributes
were functional at one point. My curiosity is whether they're still
functional or merely have set in place with time and tradition. My hunch
is that the standoffish-ness of (particularly) Eastern cities is a
remnant of the huge waves of immigrants they experienced and the
resulting cultural fragmentation and discomfort with "others". I came to
think this way after noticing the very different attitudes/behavior in
ethnic neighborhoods towards insiders and outsiders. In Manhattan, to a
certain degree, everyone is an outsider.

On Mar 18, 12:44*am, " wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:42*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

If you don't know, why are you suggesting there is some likelihood or
increased chance of being shot in NYC?

It was metaphorical. My brother, my step son and daughter in law and
my grand-kids and my cousin live in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I go there
quite often, and I know that I will not get shot. However, if I drive
lost in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc I will be killed by the
insults which is something that would not happen in Austin. So, don't
be so sensitive. I am not saying that Austin is better. I was
irritated by too much politeness there. *So, take a chill pill eze.

FWIW, I know a woman who recently went to a class reunion somewhere
near New York (although I think it wasn't actually within the city).
Anyway, she got lost at a certain point, ended up in rougher and
rougher neighborhoods, then was lucky enough to find a K-9 cop to ask
for directions. He told her "You absolutely don't want to be in this
neighborhood. Follow my car and I'll lead you out."

I suppose all cities of even moderate size have neighborhoods that are
a bit more dangerous. But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.

I recall riding from NJ to Ohio with my son many years ago. We
pedaled straight through Philly and passed through some neighborhoods
where the denizens were calling us "whitey" and yelling at us to get
out. No real trouble, but definite harassment, and definitely not
pleasant.

Our medium-sized city has bad neighborhoods, too, with high crime
rates, drug deals, etc. But I think I've ridden through all of them
at one time or other, and never had a similar experience.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mar 18, 9:31*am, Peter Cole wrote:


My experience is that there are noticeable regional cultural
differences. I've often wondered why. My guess is that the attributes
were functional at one point. My curiosity is whether they're still
functional or merely have set in place with time and tradition. My hunch
is that the standoffish-ness of (particularly) Eastern cities is a
remnant of the huge waves of immigrants they experienced and the
resulting cultural fragmentation and discomfort with "others". I came to
think this way after noticing the very different attitudes/behavior in
ethnic neighborhoods towards insiders and outsiders. In Manhattan, to a
certain degree, everyone is an outsider.

I've got an interesting pair of books, titled _Culturegrams: The
Nations Around Us_, developed by the David M. Kennedy Center for
International Studies at Brigham Young University. They consist of
brief (perhaps four page long) chapters on over 150 countries,
explaining a bit about each government, society, customs, etc. They
claim there are definite national or regional differences in personal
attitudes, sociability, etc.

Those differences were surely transplanted to the US by immigrants.
For example, the Scotch-Irish settled much of the Appalachians; the
Norwegians tended to settle in the upper midwest. I'd expect that
present day attitudes in various US regions are still influenced a bit
by the characteristics of the dominant immigrant groups.

And yes, as always, one has to be careful not to prejudge an
individual based on such ideas. But I think that caution doesn't
invalidate the ideas.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mar 18, 2:48*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:42*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:07*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Yeah, cordiality is at the extreme end of the nice scale. I was
driving in Austin once and kept making all kinds of mistakes since I
was lost, the people behind me were being extremely polite and patient
to the point of being irritating. I felt that I needed to be curse but
nobody would do so. I needed some balance. I didn't want to be in NYC,
where I would have been shot and run over.

By population, where do you think someone is more likely to be shot --
NYC or Texas?

Don't know.

If you don't know, why are you suggesting there is some likelihood or
increased chance of being shot in NYC?

It was metaphorical. My brother, my step son and daughter in law and
my grand-kids and my cousin live in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I go there
quite often, and I know that I will not get shot. However, if I drive
lost in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc I will be killed by the
insults which is something that would not happen in Austin. So, don't
be so sensitive. I am not saying that Austin is better. I was
irritated by too much politeness there. *So, take a chill pill eze.

No, I won't chill if you like using a metaphor that disses where I
live. It's obnoxious stereotyping that should be denounced.

Dear John (Fogel, 2009, 2008, 2007....)

NYC, is a really cool place, but it ain't perfect, so don't be so
nationalistic. Comparatively, it is very fast paced and crowded, and
people have little patient for slow pace. So, when slow drivers, slow
shoppers, slow movers get in the way, they'll get showered you with
the appropriate doze of insults. For some of the the visitors, or the
tourist, it can be overwhelming. It never bothered me since I grew up
in a very large Latin city with similar big city culture, fast
tempers, etc.

Now, if you don't chill out, I'll have to call on Carl to "dear" you
into calmness.

In article
,
" wrote:

On Mar 18, 2:48*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:42*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:07*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Yeah, cordiality is at the extreme end of the nice scale. I was
driving in Austin once and kept making all kinds of mistakes since I
was lost, the people behind me were being extremely polite and patient
to the point of being irritating. I felt that I needed to be curse but
nobody would do so. I needed some balance. I didn't want to be in NYC,
where I would have been shot and run over.

By population, where do you think someone is more likely to be shot --
NYC or Texas?

Don't know.

If you don't know, why are you suggesting there is some likelihood or
increased chance of being shot in NYC?

It was metaphorical. My brother, my step son and daughter in law and
my grand-kids and my cousin live in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I go there
quite often, and I know that I will not get shot. However, if I drive
lost in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc I will be killed by the
insults which is something that would not happen in Austin. So, don't
be so sensitive. I am not saying that Austin is better. I was
irritated by too much politeness there. *So, take a chill pill eze.

No, I won't chill if you like using a metaphor that disses where I
live. It's obnoxious stereotyping that should be denounced.

Dear John (Fogel, 2009, 2008, 2007....)

NYC, is a really cool place, but it ain't perfect, so don't be so
nationalistic. Comparatively, it is very fast paced and crowded, and
people have little patient for slow pace. So, when slow drivers, slow
shoppers, slow movers get in the way, they'll get showered you with
the appropriate doze of insults. For some of the the visitors, or the
tourist, it can be overwhelming. It never bothered me since I grew up
in a very large Latin city with similar big city culture, fast
tempers, etc.

Now, if you don't chill out, I'll have to call on Carl to "dear" you
into calmness.

You fill in lacunae in your knowledge and experience with
made up stuff. For instance, in New York City there is a
plague of mothers with huge child buggies that block up
sidewalks, shops, and cafes. Did not know that, did you?

--
Michael Press

Per Chalo:
I have visited there many times since the 1980s. And each time I have
wondered, "whatsamatta wit dese people?!" They're brusque to the
point of rudeness even when they're being nice by local standards.
And they drive like they're on a cocktail of methamphetamine and
pepper spray.

To judge by the inhabitants of Manhattan, what it takes to flourish
there is thick skin and hypercriticality. So, thanks, but I'll be
happy to flourish in a proudly weird and overtly friendly place
instead.

Y'all probably wouldn't like it here, though. It's really hot.

As part of a mis-spent youth, I lived 9 years in Hawaii.

While going to college there I worked downtown as a desk
clerk/night auditor in a 100-room hotel.

Of all the people who came in/out of that place, the one bunch I
always looked forward to - and enjoyed serving - were the NYC
tour groups: they all understood and spoke direct, level-1
English.

Some of them were PITA, but it was totally up-front, 100%
comprehensible, in-your-face PITA.

Such a relief from going in to a family restaurant in Kaimuki,
ordering coffee and a hamburger and having some air head ask
"Uhhhhh.... you like hot dug?".

It's probably a lot better English-language-wise in Hawaii now,
but at the time, I thought New York City was the navel of the
universe.
--
PeteCresswell

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.

Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?

Particularly in relation to NYC?

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I recall riding from NJ to Ohio with my son many years ago. We
pedaled straight through Philly and passed through some neighborhoods
where the denizens were calling us "whitey" and yelling at us to get
out.

Many years ago....

PS - I've had cops follow me around in beatiful parts of rural
Connecticut. 15 years ago.

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:14:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

NYC, is a really cool place, but it ain't perfect, so don't be so
nationalistic. Comparatively, it is very fast paced and crowded, and
people have little patient for slow pace. So, when slow drivers, slow
shoppers, slow movers get in the way, they'll get showered you with
the appropriate doze of insults. For some of the the visitors, or the
tourist, it can be overwhelming. It never bothered me since I grew up
in a very large Latin city with similar big city culture, fast
tempers, etc.

Now, if you don't chill out, I'll have to call on Carl to "dear" you
into calmness.

I have to laugh when I consider that your stereotype was about how
you'd be insulting in NYC, and yet you're the one being called out for
insults. And rather than apologize, you ask me to "chill out."

Stop repeating stereotypes and then ignoring complaints by asking me
to "chill out".