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  #31  
Old March 20th 09, 10:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Riders I meet

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:27:08 -0700, Michael Press
wrote:

In article
,
" wrote:

On Mar 18, 2:48*am, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:44:25 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:42*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:07*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Yeah, cordiality is at the extreme end of the nice scale. I was
driving in Austin once and kept making all kinds of mistakes since I
was lost, the people behind me were being extremely polite and patient
to the point of being irritating. I felt that I needed to be curse but
nobody would do so. I needed some balance. I didn't want to be in NYC,
where I would have been shot and run over.

By population, where do you think someone is more likely to be shot --
NYC or Texas?

Don't know.

If you don't know, why are you suggesting there is some likelihood or
increased chance of being shot in NYC?

It was metaphorical. My brother, my step son and daughter in law and
my grand-kids and my cousin live in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I go there
quite often, and I know that I will not get shot. However, if I drive
lost in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc I will be killed by the
insults which is something that would not happen in Austin. So, don't
be so sensitive. I am not saying that Austin is better. I was
irritated by too much politeness there. *So, take a chill pill eze.

No, I won't chill if you like using a metaphor that disses where I
live. It's obnoxious stereotyping that should be denounced.


Dear John (Fogel, 2009, 2008, 2007....)

NYC, is a really cool place, but it ain't perfect, so don't be so
nationalistic. Comparatively, it is very fast paced and crowded, and
people have little patient for slow pace. So, when slow drivers, slow
shoppers, slow movers get in the way, they'll get showered you with
the appropriate doze of insults. For some of the the visitors, or the
tourist, it can be overwhelming. It never bothered me since I grew up
in a very large Latin city with similar big city culture, fast
tempers, etc.

Now, if you don't chill out, I'll have to call on Carl to "dear" you
into calmness.


You fill in lacunae in your knowledge and experience with
made up stuff. For instance, in New York City there is a
plague of mothers with huge child buggies that block up
sidewalks, shops, and cafes. Did not know that, did you?


Hahaha. I used to live in a neighborhood that became notorious for
that recently.
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  #32  
Old March 20th 09, 10:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Riders I meet

On Mar 20, 5:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

wrote:
But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.


Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?


Mostly, just my anecdotal experience. Philly and Cleveland and Los
Angeles come to mind. I'm sure there are exceptions, which is why I
said "in general."

I wonder if you have contrary evidence?

Particularly in relation to NYC?


I haven't spent enough time there.

- Frank Krygowski
  #33  
Old March 20th 09, 10:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Riders I meet

On Mar 20, 5:05*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

wrote:
I recall riding from NJ to Ohio with my son many years ago. *We
pedaled straight through Philly and passed through some neighborhoods
where the denizens were calling us "whitey" and yelling at us to get
out.


Many years ago....


Yep. How are Philadelphia's inner neighborhoods doing these days?
Any idea? (I wish I could tell you where I was, but all I know is we
were heading west.)

PS - I've had cops follow me around in beatiful parts of rural
Connecticut. *15 years ago.


I've been in discussions here with a guy who claimed his towns cops
follow him all the time because the car he drives is too sporty. And
I had a student about four years ago who claimed the cops in his tiny
town (population 2000) followed him around, too, maybe because he rode
a motorcycle. And a college professor who moved to my village felt
the cops considered him shady because his pickup truck had an
unrepaired dent in the door.

Sadly, you can get that anywhere.

- Frank Krygowski
  #34  
Old March 20th 09, 10:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Riders I meet

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Mar 20, 5:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

wrote:
But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.


Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?


Mostly, just my anecdotal experience. Philly and Cleveland and Los
Angeles come to mind. I'm sure there are exceptions, which is why I
said "in general."

I wonder if you have contrary evidence?

Particularly in relation to NYC?


I've looked up stats for violent crimes in cities in the US in
general, and NYC is one of the biggest cities and had lower violent
crime rates per person than many smaller cities.

But I don't really know, which is way I don't go around talking about
places I don't know about as dangerous, or proposing theories like
yours w/o evidence.
  #35  
Old March 21st 09, 04:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Riders I meet

On Mar 20, 5:32*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski



wrote:
On Mar 20, 5:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski


wrote:
But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.


Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?


Mostly, just my anecdotal experience. *Philly and Cleveland and Los
Angeles come to mind. *I'm sure there are exceptions, which is why I
said "in general."


I wonder if you have contrary evidence?


Particularly in relation to NYC?


I've looked up stats for violent crimes in cities in the US in
general, and NYC is one of the biggest cities and had lower violent
crime rates per person than many smaller cities.

But I don't really know, which is way I don't go around talking about
places I don't know about as dangerous, or proposing theories like
yours w/o evidence.


John, I've learned a lot in my life. Sometimes I don't remember the
sources of what I've learned. Sometimes I'm not positive about what
I've learned, but I state my impressions anyway, preferencing them
with something like "I believe." I think most people do that.

Look at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_16.html
Check the "rate" columns for Group I (i.e. largest) cities, on down to
Group VI, the smallest cities. Check the crime rates for all the
types of crimes. Do you see the same trends I do?

- Frank Krygowski
  #36  
Old March 21st 09, 04:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,511
Default Riders I meet

On Mar 20, 5:32*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski



wrote:
On Mar 20, 5:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski


wrote:
But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.


Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?


Mostly, just my anecdotal experience. *Philly and Cleveland and Los
Angeles come to mind. *I'm sure there are exceptions, which is why I
said "in general."


I wonder if you have contrary evidence?


Particularly in relation to NYC?


I've looked up stats for violent crimes in cities in the US in
general, and NYC is one of the biggest cities and had lower violent
crime rates per person than many smaller cities.

But I don't really know, which is way I don't go around talking about
places I don't know about as dangerous, or proposing theories like
yours w/o evidence.


John, I've learned a lot in my life. Sometimes I don't remember the
sources of what I've learned. Sometimes I'm not positive about what
I've learned, but I state my impressions anyway, prefacing them
with something like "I believe." I think most people do that.

Look at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_16.html

Check the "rate" columns for Group I (i.e. largest) cities, on down to
Group VI, the smallest cities. Check the crime rates for all the
types of crimes. Do you see the same trends I do?

- Frank Krygowski
  #37  
Old March 21st 09, 04:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
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Posts: 5,394
Default Riders I meet

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...

Look at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_16.html

Check the "rate" columns for Group I (i.e. largest) cities, on down to
Group VI, the smallest cities. Check the crime rates for all the
types of crimes. Do you see the same trends I do?


There's one interesting bit, which is that the biggest cities seem to have
lower crime than the slightly less large ones. At a guess, NYC is in that
'largest' segment, which means it's better than one might think.

There's also a certain amount of comparison to be made with the various
"Cycling is dangerous" arguments - the point is that cycling is not actually
that dangerous, so the things which are being justified by the people using
that argument aren't actually useful. Ditto crime.

All that said, I prefer our sleepy market town :-)


  #38  
Old March 21st 09, 06:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay Beattie
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Posts: 4,322
Default Riders I meet

On Mar 20, 8:37*pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message

...

Look athttp://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_16.html


Check the "rate" columns for Group I (i.e. largest) cities, on down to
Group VI, the smallest cities. *Check the crime rates for all the
types of crimes. *Do you see the same trends I do?


There's one interesting bit, which is that the biggest cities seem to have
lower crime than the slightly less large ones. At a guess, NYC is in that
'largest' segment, which means it's better than one might think.

There's also a certain amount of comparison to be made with the various
"Cycling is dangerous" arguments - the point is that cycling is not actually
that dangerous, so the things which are being justified by the people using
that argument aren't actually useful. Ditto crime.

All that said, I prefer our sleepy market town :-)


Well, crime rates depend on victim reports. If you live in a city
where crime is the norm, then people stop reporting. Not saying that
is the case with NY, but I suspect a person in small town USA would be
more likely to report a minor property crime -- a car break in, for
example -- than someone in a high crime city. -- Jay Beattie.
  #39  
Old March 21st 09, 11:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Riders I meet

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Mar 20, 5:32*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski



wrote:
On Mar 20, 5:04*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski


wrote:
But I believe that in general, the larger the
metro area, the larger such neighborhoods are likely to be, and the
worse conditions might be within them.


Any evidence of this other than pop culture and stereotyping?


Mostly, just my anecdotal experience. *Philly and Cleveland and Los
Angeles come to mind. *I'm sure there are exceptions, which is why I
said "in general."


I wonder if you have contrary evidence?


Particularly in relation to NYC?


I've looked up stats for violent crimes in cities in the US in
general, and NYC is one of the biggest cities and had lower violent
crime rates per person than many smaller cities.

But I don't really know, which is way I don't go around talking about
places I don't know about as dangerous, or proposing theories like
yours w/o evidence.


John, I've learned a lot in my life. Sometimes I don't remember the
sources of what I've learned. Sometimes I'm not positive about what
I've learned, but I state my impressions anyway, preferencing them
with something like "I believe." I think most people do that.

Look at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_16.html


Good evidence.

So I guess you can diss specific big cities now too.
  #40  
Old March 21st 09, 11:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Posts: 6,564
Default Riders I meet

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:46:33 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
wrote:

If you live in a city
where crime is the norm, then people stop reporting. Not saying that
is the case with NY, but I suspect a person in small town USA would be
more likely to report a minor property crime -- a car break in, for
example -- than someone in a high crime city.


This is circular reasoning. If someone lives in a small town where
crime is the norm, are they going to report it? Nothing is being done
- what's the use.

 




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