Tire recommedations needed

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber, that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, therefore less
milage on the road.

TJ

On 25 Mar, 06:05, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber, that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, *therefore less
milage on the road.

With more punctures per mile.

TJ

On Mar 23, 3:25*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 23 Mar, 19:42, landotter wrote:



On Mar 23, 2:14*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:

On 23 Mar, 18:22, landotter wrote:

On Mar 23, 12:15*pm, WhiteTea wrote:

On Mar 22, 9:36*am, wrote:

Try the Specialized trisport, great tire for $18.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqP...=42216&eid=355

I don't care for the "slick" tires. You don't know how thick the
rubber is compared to threaded tires.

Why on earth do you need to have a worse gripping tire to satisfy your
curiosity about the tread's current thickness? Are you a compulsive
obsessive? Road tires need zero tread. Tread introduces squirm. Just
ride until you can see the cords, or you start getting flats.

Are not patterned treads used to reduce rolling resistance in thicker
rubber?

No. It's decorative if intended for road use.

Its costly to produce the tooling (the mould)
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

It's branding, just as much as the piping on your jersey. The
herringbone tread will quickly wear away down the center of such tires
making them effectively slicks.

On Mar 23, 12:22*pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 23, 12:15*pm, WhiteTea wrote:

On Mar 22, 9:36*am, wrote:

Try the Specialized trisport, great tire for $18.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqP...=42216&eid=355

I don't care for the "slick" tires. You don't know how thick the
rubber is compared to threaded tires.

Why on earth do you need to have a worse gripping tire to satisfy your
curiosity about the tread's current thickness? Are you a compulsive
obsessive? Road tires need zero tread. Tread introduces squirm. Just
ride until you can see the cords, or you start getting flats.

I am praying for you brother.

Andy

On Mar 25, 11:25*am, WhiteTea wrote:
On Mar 23, 12:22*pm, landotter wrote:

On Mar 23, 12:15*pm, WhiteTea wrote:

On Mar 22, 9:36*am, wrote:

Try the Specialized trisport, great tire for $18.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqP...=42216&eid=355

I don't care for the "slick" tires. You don't know how thick the
rubber is compared to threaded tires.

Why on earth do you need to have a worse gripping tire to satisfy your
curiosity about the tread's current thickness? Are you a compulsive
obsessive? Road tires need zero tread. Tread introduces squirm. Just
ride until you can see the cords, or you start getting flats.

I am praying for you brother.


I thought you looked constipated!

On 25 Mar, 17:57, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:
Nick L Plate considered Tue, 24 Mar 2009
23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber,

No, they have no pattern because it works better.

* * * * *that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, *therefore less
milage on the road.

No, the extra resistance on a patterned tread comes mostly from the
tread blocks moving around under load.
This (among other things) causes them to wear faster, because they
absorb more energy.
The pattern picks up debris more than slick rubber, so without
reinforcement, you get more punctures.

The contact patch of a bicycle tyre is small enough that it IS the
tread pattern.

Racing tyres do not have tread blocks. Those tyres that have "blocks"
do not quickly wear out the pattern. A thicker tread will almost
always absorb more energy. That is the trade off with a long tread
life. A racing tyre tread does not have vertical cuts in the tread,
the pattern is at 45deg to the surface. It may take quite a while
before the centre of a patterned racing type tread is worn in the
centre, still providing the grippy patterned tread towards the edges
for cornering.

Considering the recent revelations that the rolling resistance tests
showing wired-on tyres generally superior to tubular tyres were flawed
inasmuch a swhile the w-o tyres were optimally mounted, the tubular
tyres were mounted with thin inadequate layers of gum rather than a
proper thickness of a hard cement. It certainly brings in doubt about
the supposed superiority of unpatterned tread. Patterned treads
definitely do have a directional bias, and if tested the wrong way
round, will possibly produce an inferior result to an un-patterned
tread. A supple casing and reasonable tyre width along with
coservative pressure do much to improve road grip. In a lot of cases
with wired-ons it is not desirable to lower tyre pressure for
increased cornering grip in the wet because of the great risk of
pinching the tyre edge either on a corner causing a fall or at any
time causing a puncture. A short contact patch of tyre needs all the
help it can get when there are puddles and/or algae to contend with.

Can you point to good tyre tests, in the wet for cornering force
comparing optimally mounted tyres at optimal pressures. I believe
the 2-ply road racing tread tubular with latex tube will prove to be
superior in cornering force in difficult conditions every time.

TJ

On Mar 26, 1:07*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 25 Mar, 17:57, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:



Nick L Plate considered Tue, 24 Mar 2009
23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber,

No, they have no pattern because it works better.

* * * * *that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, *therefore less
milage on the road.

No, the extra resistance on a patterned tread comes mostly from the
tread blocks moving around under load.
This (among other things) causes them to wear faster, because they
absorb more energy.
The pattern picks up debris more than slick rubber, so without
reinforcement, you get more punctures.

The contact patch of a bicycle tyre is small enough that it IS the
tread pattern.

Racing tyres do not have tread blocks. *Those tyres that have "blocks"
do not quickly wear out the pattern. *A thicker tread will almost
always absorb more energy. *That is the trade off with a long tread
life. *A racing tyre tread does not have vertical cuts in the tread,
the pattern is at 45deg to the surface. *It may take quite a while
before the centre of *a patterned racing type tread is worn in the
centre, still providing the grippy patterned tread towards the edges
for cornering.

Bull**** alert. Tread on the road does zero to improve grip.

On 26 Mar, 18:39, landotter wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:07*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:



On 25 Mar, 17:57, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:

Nick L Plate considered Tue, 24 Mar 2009
23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber,

No, they have no pattern because it works better.

* * * * *that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, *therefore less
milage on the road.

No, the extra resistance on a patterned tread comes mostly from the
tread blocks moving around under load.
This (among other things) causes them to wear faster, because they
absorb more energy.
The pattern picks up debris more than slick rubber, so without
reinforcement, you get more punctures.

The contact patch of a bicycle tyre is small enough that it IS the
tread pattern.

Racing tyres do not have tread blocks. *Those tyres that have "blocks"
do not quickly wear out the pattern. *A thicker tread will almost
always absorb more energy. *That is the trade off with a long tread
life. *A racing tyre tread does not have vertical cuts in the tread,
the pattern is at 45deg to the surface. *It may take quite a while
before the centre of *a patterned racing type tread is worn in the
centre, still providing the grippy patterned tread towards the edges
for cornering.

Bull**** alert. Tread on the road does zero to improve grip.

So point to some tests to prove that the unpatterned tread is superior
to a racing tread in cornering grip for wet/algae conditions.
Stop bull****ting! Road surfaces vary, only the patterned tread can
cope with these variations. It is quite obvious when a rear tyre
spins when climbing a wet hill, it is because there is no pattern on
the tyre. This is an easy test to check the assumption you have on
unpatterned tyres. Just swap your rear wheel with companion who has
no grip troubles(he's using a patterned tread) climbing the hill, and
experience the role reversal.

TJ

On Mar 26, 2:12*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 26 Mar, 18:39, landotter wrote:



On Mar 26, 1:07*pm, Nick L Plate wrote:

On 25 Mar, 17:57, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:

Nick L Plate considered Tue, 24 Mar 2009
23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, *explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber,

No, they have no pattern because it works better.

* * * * *that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, *therefore less
milage on the road.

No, the extra resistance on a patterned tread comes mostly from the
tread blocks moving around under load.
This (among other things) causes them to wear faster, because they
absorb more energy.
The pattern picks up debris more than slick rubber, so without
reinforcement, you get more punctures.

The contact patch of a bicycle tyre is small enough that it IS the
tread pattern.

Racing tyres do not have tread blocks. *Those tyres that have "blocks"
do not quickly wear out the pattern. *A thicker tread will almost
always absorb more energy. *That is the trade off with a long tread
life. *A racing tyre tread does not have vertical cuts in the tread,
the pattern is at 45deg to the surface. *It may take quite a while
before the centre of *a patterned racing type tread is worn in the
centre, still providing the grippy patterned tread towards the edges
for cornering.

Bull**** alert. Tread on the road does zero to improve grip.

So point to some tests to prove that the unpatterned tread is superior
to a racing tread in cornering grip for wet/algae conditions.
Stop bull****ting! *Road surfaces vary, only the patterned tread can
cope with these variations. *

Bull**** alert Pt. II.

Unless you know of a road which is made of Formica or porcelain,
you're talking out your ass.

"landotter" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 2:12 pm, Nick L Plate wrote:
On 26 Mar, 18:39, landotter wrote:



On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, Nick L Plate wrote:

On 25 Mar, 17:57, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:

Nick L Plate considered Tue, 24 Mar 2009
23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

On 23 Mar, 20:53, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Nick L Plate

wrote:
Tubular racing tyres are still patterned, explain.

Some are and some aren't.

So thin treaded tyres have no pattern because there is no depth of
rubber,

No, they have no pattern because it works better.

that is why un patterned tread generally have lower rolling
resistance on a steel roller, there is less rubber, therefore less
milage on the road.

No, the extra resistance on a patterned tread comes mostly from the
tread blocks moving around under load.
This (among other things) causes them to wear faster, because they
absorb more energy.
The pattern picks up debris more than slick rubber, so without
reinforcement, you get more punctures.

The contact patch of a bicycle tyre is small enough that it IS the
tread pattern.

Racing tyres do not have tread blocks. Those tyres that have "blocks"
do not quickly wear out the pattern. A thicker tread will almost
always absorb more energy. That is the trade off with a long tread
life. A racing tyre tread does not have vertical cuts in the tread,
the pattern is at 45deg to the surface. It may take quite a while
before the centre of a patterned racing type tread is worn in the
centre, still providing the grippy patterned tread towards the edges
for cornering.

Bull**** alert. Tread on the road does zero to improve grip.

So point to some tests to prove that the unpatterned tread is superior
to a racing tread in cornering grip for wet/algae conditions.
Stop bull****ting! Road surfaces vary, only the patterned tread can
cope with these variations.

Bull**** alert Pt. II.

Unless you know of a road which is made of Formica or porcelain,
you're talking out your ass.

end of original text
landlotter,
Why would a Formica or porcelain (chosen because of smoothness?) surface
make a difference in grip? If, as I understand it, a bicycle tire contact
patch size and pressure prevent aquaplaning, it seems that a slick tire
would be better on any paved road, regardless of how wet the surface is.
Can't speak for the effects of algae, as don't think I've ever ridden atop
them.
Kerry