Cycling and vegetarianism

tofu
Something I might consider eating more of, definitely.

=v= There are different varieties of tofu, some more okay
than others. You might want to check around. I greatly
prefer tempeh or just soybeans themselves (as edamame),
because these are closer to the whole food.

In this context (i.e. easy to use) we'd be talking about
Tofu slices or something. Soy slices.

=v= There are lots of soy products out there right now, but most
of them are not particularly good for you. Basically there's
a lot of (genetically-modified) soy oil used in the fast food
industry, and many of these "slices" products are made with the
leftovers from that process.

=v= I've enjoyed the peppercorn faux turkey "slices" made by
the healthy food compananies Wildwood and Turtle Island, though
only as an occasional thing, because they're not whole foods by
any stretch. There's also a faux bacon tempeh made with hickory
smoke, which I think is pretty excellent.

veggies (like brussel sprouts and potatoes)
You don't get much protein from most veggies -- good fiber,
though.

=v= The proteins in veggies are often overlooked because they're
not superconcentrated, but they do add up to a daily requirement.
Generally without adding fat or lacking fiber.

I thought the whole thing about "complete proteins" was
debunked.

=v= _Diet_for_a_Small_Planet_ publicized the idea in the early
1970s, suggesting getting all 8 essential amino acids in every
meal. A few years later it was found not to be necessary, and
that fact has been in every later edition of the book, but the
meme lives on. It's kind of strange.

=v= Getting "complete proteins" by combining certain foods at
every meal does make sense if you live in a part of the world
where you don't necessarily get a meal every day, and where
the selection of foods available are limited.
_Jym_

Most people eat too much protien.
How do you know this?
OK, well, "too much" is relative.

=v= "Too much" is a specific situation: the proteins break
down into compounds which must leave the body as waste, and
the compounds can tax the body on the way out. This has been
implicated in, e.g., osteoporosis and kidney stones.
_Jym_

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:45:03 -0500, Preston Crawford wrote:

I think this depends partly on body type. I find myself needing protein
more than others.

Definitely the case. My wife tends to craving protein when she gets
hungry. For me, it's carbs. Yeah, yeah, we lick the platter clean...

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
_`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
(_)/ (_) |

wow...fetuses aren't meat...how hypocritical.
ummm, fetuses aren't in the vast majority of eggs you
buy at the store, either. they're unfertilized.

=v= Basically, eggs are hens' periods.
Bon appetit,
_Jym_

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:13:14 -0500, Preston Crawford wrote:

if no. eat turkey. eat chicken. eat fish. eat soylent green.

That would be the dogmatism I'm referring to. Soylet green?

Name of, and primary food available in, an old post-apocalyptic sci-fi
movie from the 70s (I *think). Last movie Edward G. Robinson was in.
Ah, found it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Preston Crawford wrote:
See, this is where it gets dogmatic. I don't care whether I remain a
vegetarian or not.

i'm not being *dogmatic* i'm reacting to your apparent intent to stay
vegetarian.

ya see, preston .. you entitled this thread "Cycling and vegeterianism."
if you didn't care one way or the other you could have said, "Cycling and
protein" and no one would have tried to keep ya veggie.

get it?
--
david reuteler

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:03:20 -0700, Bill Baka wrote:

On 01 Sep 2004 02:46:32 GMT, Fx199 wrote:

Subject: Cycling and vegetarianism
From: David Reuteler
Date: 8/31/2004 9:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Fx199 wrote:

This was a choice of preference rather than necessity; I believe that
you can get plenty of quality protein for any physical activity if you
eat soy products, dairy products, and eggs.


eggs are vegetarian now???????

umm, yea.

wow...fetuses aren't meat...how hypocritical. You're eating total animal

An egg is not a fetus. Jesus Christ we got some fanatics on here. Does
that mean that having sex on birth control is murder? You had better not
have sex anyway because all those wasted sperm are potential unborn
children. Ditto a womans unfertilized egg.
Get real.
Milk can count as vegetarian too since no animal is harmed to get it.
The point is concern with animal welfare, and those chickens and
cows would not even be alive if they weren't raised for the eggs/milk.
Bill Baka

Most chickens and cows wouldn't be born if they weren't raised for meat.
There are billions and billions of chickens that are hatched in the US
each year, the total number of wild African Guinea Fowl is probably no
more than a few thousand. The same goes for cattle vs buffalo. Cattle out
number buffalo hundreds or thousands to one because they are raised for
meat. Getting eaten by people is the single most successful species
survival strategy there is.

Preston Crawford wrote:
:: On 2004-09-01, David Reuteler wrote:
::: preston, don't you think the fact that you'd talked to a
::: nutritionist and she'd (apparently) ruled out every source of
::: non-animal protein you're not allergic to should have been included
::: in your original post?
::
:: Actually, it's not an allergy thing. I'm not sure where you're
:: getting that from. I said in an earlier post that cheese is
:: bothering my stomach and that soy milk bothers me. That's it.
:: Nothing more. I can eat beans and rice. I can eat tofu. I can eat
:: gardenburgers and pretty much everything else. My point wasn't about
:: allergies. My point was that I needed a source of protein that
:: wasn't too fatty (because I'd like to lose some more weight), that's
:: easy to prepare, and that's not cheese or soy milk. That's it.
::
:: The nutritionist came to her conclusion based on those parameters
:: (which I believe I layed out initially, or at least I layed out most
:: of them, save perhaps the fat issue, which I raised when nuts where
:: mentioned prominently by someone). Basically her point of view was
:: that I should eat turkey, the least processed, best raised turkey,
:: but turkey. Her reasoning being that it was low in fat, high in
:: protein and didn't contain all the additives and processing that
:: goes into some of the soy products. And nuts, obviously, are ruled
:: out. Because while they may be healthy in small quantities, I can't
:: get 100% or even 50% of my protein from nuts, otherwise I'm also
:: getting a big glob of fat as well.
::
::: do you or do you not wish to remain vegetarian? if not, then we
::: can end this thread. but you apparently knew the answer already?
::: so why did you post? if you do want to be a vegetarian then i
::: suggest you consult (another) nutritionist for a second opinion.
::
:: See, this is where it gets dogmatic. I don't care whether I remain a
:: vegetarian or not. In fact, I'm not one currently, as I eat fish. I
:: just want to eat healthy. Right now I eat pretty healthy, but I eat
:: too much cheese. I'm trying to substitute a good protein source for
:: the cheese I'm eating. Simple as that. Very simple. No dogmatism, no
:: morality struggles, no ethical dilemnas. I want to eat healthy and
:: lose more weight and I believe that quitting cheese would be a good
:: step. I just need to know what to replace it with.
::
:: Enough said. Whether the solution is vegetarian or not is immaterial
:: to me, which is why I asked the question with an open mind. The
:: problem is that I'm getting close-minded answers coming from the
:: standpoint that staying vegetarian should be a goal, which doesn't
:: really answer my question. That's dogma. What I'm asking is if
:: (using this situation) you can point me in the direction of a good
:: protein source that isn't
:: egg whites or yogurt (since I already eat those) and that's low fat
:: and easy to prepare when you're busy like I am. If you have a
:: vegetarian solution then present it. I'm all ears. But don't insist
:: that I choose a vegetarian solution just for the sake of doing so.

I hear you Preston.

Let me just say one last thing in this thread: I lost 130 lbs on a LC diet
that consisted of mostly fat (it had ample amounts of protein, to). I did
have to limit nuts 'cause I tend to eat too many of them to lose weight.
But the notion that fat is the enemy is simply wrong. For me (and many
others), controling BG swings was the key to the elimination of excessive
appetite that lead to overconsumption of food. On LC, even though I was
eating a lot of fat (along with a lot of low carb veggies), I didn't have to
eat much red meat. I could eat all kinds of fish and fowl. But I had less
appetite which translated into eating less food, and thus fewer calories.
There are many others with similar stories. Also, my type 2 diabetics is
under control and other blood indicators improved. Just FYI.

Preston Crawford wrote in message ...
On 2004-09-01, Roger Zoul wrote:
As long as you don't have a problem with it, turkey is great! Other types
of fish & seafood are good too, like shrimp, catfish, talapia (sp?), trout,
etc.

I agree with your logic, too.

snip

I'm being open-minded. If there's a low-fat, healthy non-meat solution
then I'm open minded about it. I'll do more research on whey protein, for
example. But my utmost concern right now is my health. It has to be.

Preston

I think you are doing the right thing. I was a vegetarian for 4 years
and wound up going back to fish and lean poultry for similar reasons.
I wasn't cycling enough to cause protien issues at the time but I was
rock climbing a lot and weightlifting (not for mass, climbing
specific stuff) and was having trouble with recovery time. Protien
powder helped some but that stuff can be nasty. Wrecked havoc on my
stomach. And it's kinda gross. Milk sources are a good surce of
protien but I am also mildly lactose intolerant so consuming enough
skim milk and cottage cheese wasn't too pleasant. I slowly started to
reintroduce turkey and chicken into my diet and found an immediate
improvement. I still eat it only as needed so if I'm realtivly
sedentary for a few days I'll eat mostly vegetable sources. If I'm
more active I'll eat more chicken or fish.

A side benefit that I've found is that more recipies are avaliabe to
me now and it's easier to eat healthy in restrauants.


Best of luck!

-Tim

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:07:38 -0400, Roger Zoul
wrote:

Preston Crawford wrote:
:: On 2004-09-01, David Reuteler wrote:
::: preston, don't you think the fact that you'd talked to a
::: nutritionist and she'd (apparently) ruled out every source of
::: non-animal protein you're not allergic to should have been included
::: in your original post?
::
:: Actually, it's not an allergy thing. I'm not sure where you're
:: getting that from. I said in an earlier post that cheese is
:: bothering my stomach and that soy milk bothers me. That's it.
:: Nothing more. I can eat beans and rice. I can eat tofu. I can eat
:: gardenburgers and pretty much everything else. My point wasn't about
:: allergies. My point was that I needed a source of protein that
:: wasn't too fatty (because I'd like to lose some more weight), that's
:: easy to prepare, and that's not cheese or soy milk. That's it.
::
:: The nutritionist came to her conclusion based on those parameters
:: (which I believe I layed out initially, or at least I layed out most
:: of them, save perhaps the fat issue, which I raised when nuts where
:: mentioned prominently by someone). Basically her point of view was
:: that I should eat turkey, the least processed, best raised turkey,
:: but turkey. Her reasoning being that it was low in fat, high in
:: protein and didn't contain all the additives and processing that
:: goes into some of the soy products. And nuts, obviously, are ruled
:: out. Because while they may be healthy in small quantities, I can't
:: get 100% or even 50% of my protein from nuts, otherwise I'm also
:: getting a big glob of fat as well.
::
::: do you or do you not wish to remain vegetarian? if not, then we
::: can end this thread. but you apparently knew the answer already?
::: so why did you post? if you do want to be a vegetarian then i
::: suggest you consult (another) nutritionist for a second opinion.
::
:: See, this is where it gets dogmatic. I don't care whether I remain a
:: vegetarian or not. In fact, I'm not one currently, as I eat fish. I
:: just want to eat healthy. Right now I eat pretty healthy, but I eat
:: too much cheese. I'm trying to substitute a good protein source for
:: the cheese I'm eating. Simple as that. Very simple. No dogmatism, no
:: morality struggles, no ethical dilemnas. I want to eat healthy and
:: lose more weight and I believe that quitting cheese would be a good
:: step. I just need to know what to replace it with.
::
:: Enough said. Whether the solution is vegetarian or not is immaterial
:: to me, which is why I asked the question with an open mind. The
:: problem is that I'm getting close-minded answers coming from the
:: standpoint that staying vegetarian should be a goal, which doesn't
:: really answer my question. That's dogma. What I'm asking is if
:: (using this situation) you can point me in the direction of a good
:: protein source that isn't
:: egg whites or yogurt (since I already eat those) and that's low fat
:: and easy to prepare when you're busy like I am. If you have a
:: vegetarian solution then present it. I'm all ears. But don't insist
:: that I choose a vegetarian solution just for the sake of doing so.

I hear you Preston.

Let me just say one last thing in this thread: I lost 130 lbs on a LC
diet
that consisted of mostly fat (it had ample amounts of protein, to). I
did
have to limit nuts 'cause I tend to eat too many of them to lose weight.
But the notion that fat is the enemy is simply wrong. For me (and many
others), controling BG swings was the key to the elimination of excessive
appetite that lead to overconsumption of food. On LC, even though I was
eating a lot of fat (along with a lot of low carb veggies), I didn't
have to
eat much red meat. I could eat all kinds of fish and fowl. But I had
less
appetite which translated into eating less food, and thus fewer calories.
There are many others with similar stories. Also, my type 2 diabetics is
under control and other blood indicators improved. Just FYI.



Although I don't stay away from red meat, I don't eat a lot of it,
either. The "low carb = steaks and bacon" is a figment of somebody's
active imagination. I rarely eat steaks or bacon. The best benefit of
low carb is lack of blood sugar swings. However, if you have no blood
sugar control problems, low carb may or may not help you. For me, low
carb has helped me tremendously. On low fat, I would eat my high carb
meal of pasta or brown rice and beans and I'd have to grab onto something
because the blood sugar swings were horrendous. Additionally, I'd crash
after eating a high carb meal and would become depressed. Finally, I was
never full on low fat. I could eat a plate of pasta and be hungry within
an hour. All of those problems are gone with low carb.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply