Decent bicycle light cost

On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.

Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.

Hmm. Can we have the dynamo charge the battery-powered light halfway on the way to work, and add augment that half charge to its output on the ride home, and run the battery powered light at full brightness on the way home?

On 3/9/2017 3:48 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.

Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.

Hmm. Can we have the dynamo charge the battery-powered light halfway on the way to work, and add augment that half charge to its output on the ride home, and run the battery powered light at full brightness on the way home?

No, not with any of the commercially available lights and dynamos.

If you buy a USB rechargeable headlight that can operate while being
charged, and buy a small AC-DC buck switcher module, then you can do that.

On Thu, 09 Mar 2017 08:24:52 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/8/2017 11:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.

Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.

I consider the bargain dyno wheels to be too lo-fi, although they probably work nearly as well as the PD-8. Not sure about the light output of the $80 light -- but yes, the E3 Triple 2 (for sale by me) at 640 lumens is billed as the brightest dyno light on the market. Kind of underwhelming -- but you don't have to charge it, except on your credit card.

-- Jay Beattie.


That and the warm fuzzy feeling of a light powered by
genuine German electrons.

Or simply ride in the day light, which of course, as James mentioned,
involves the dangers of UV damage but does give one a warm feeling...
although warm and soggy at times.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 18:04:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

You forget Frank. Just as your Mr. Trump, he is now a politician.
(With all the truth and sincerity that involves).



--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 18:03:21 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 3:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles.

Seems to me I was comparing lights to cranksets.

What if your new crankset doesn't make you as fast as you thought?

And you are perfectly correct. I have a Shimano 600 crank set on one
bike and it didn't make me a bit faster.... on the other hand it was a
LOT (free actually) cheaper than a C-F crank set :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate. Unlike you, I am able to use what is best
suited to the situation, and have no compelling need to create fictional
accounts, and no need to question someone whose experience differs from
my own. If Jay says that there are situations where his dynamo light is
insufficient, I believe him. If Lou insists that dynamo lights are
sufficient for his situation, I believe him. If someone says that there
are low-hanging branches on their route that they have to avoid (and in
some cases that they have hit in the past) I believe them.

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 1:11:36 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 22:26:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/9/2017 9:09 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 3:04 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2017 4:05 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/9/2017 12:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:56:40 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/8/2017 8:45 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my
needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do
let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

I wonder: If a guy buys a Campy carbon fiber crankset, installs it,
tests it, and says "Heck, I still can't beat my buddy up that big
hill,"
does he qualify for a refund? ;-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

Now you're simply trolling by comparing lights to bicycles. Like I
said before and you should know; it's very easy to tell if a light
will light the road or trail the way you need it to. I took the bike
outside the store onto a dark street and withing one block I KNEW the
light was NOT suitable for my needs. What's so hard to understand
about that? What's so hard to understand that someone does NOT want to
spend hundreds of dollars experimenting with hub dynamose before
finding something that meets THEIR needs not yours? Besides, I can
tell within a few blocks if a different bicycle will be faster than
the one I'm riding.

There are extensive evaluations of lights available, plus you can get an
idea of suitability based on technical specifications. You can also ask
fellow cyclists. In my area probably you want to ride the Caltrain bike
car on the Baby Bullet at night and get off at one of the stations and
see a wide variety of lights. Or hang out on Palo Alto's Bicycle
Boulevard at night, by a stop sign or traffic light, and get an idea of
the differences between lights, and ask the owners about them.

The reality is that it's pretty easy to narrow down light choices before
you go into a store. Choose integrated or separate battery. Eliminate
any sub-800 lumen lights. Look at beam patterns online and eliminate any
models that don't provide sufficient spill. Eliminate all StVZO models.
Ensure that there is flashing DRL functionality. Check the quality of
the handlebar mount. Check the runtime. Determine the level of
waterproofness level you need.

I know that Jay rants on and on about how poor his dynamo light purchase
worked out, but it's because he had already become accustomed to battery
powered lights which were of course much more powerful. Most people that
tout the suitability of dynamo lights have not experienced the level of
illumination and safety that are provided by a good battery light.

Of course, you've now said that you and your family do use dynamo
powered lights.

We use both. We use dynamo lights when appropriate, and battery powered
lights when appropriate.

Why do you assume that dynamo users do differently?

You said "Most people that tout the suitability of dynamo lights have
not experienced the level of illumination and safety that are provided
by a good battery light." That's your snarky way of saying "Dynamo users
don't know any better."

I've got a box containing probably 10 different battery lights -
all-in-one, separate battery pack, headlamp, halogen, LED - and I've
given other battery lights to other people. I'm positive some of them
meet your definition of "good," and I can use them any time I care to.
But I, like many others, find that modern dynamo lights don't need any
supplement.

Unfortunately bicyclists are all equipped with rather anemic lights so
all the arguing and bragging about "MY LIGHT" is very much a matter of
the old sand box argument about who's toys are better.

For those who are truly serious about having decent battery powered
lighting See:
http://argoasecurity.com/index.php?r...product_id=176

Not a miserable little light with power measured in hundreds or
thousands this is a truly superior lamp with 12-Million Candlepower.

--
Cheers,

John B.

I wonder how long it takes to drain the battery? Not long I bet.

Cheers