#171
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California's Fires
Frank Krygowski writes:
On 10/26/2017 6:26 PM, wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: writes: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: writes: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose, and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and mentally. The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer. The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing products approved, and too easy to milk government protected intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery. -- Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry medication and hypos. Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date. Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before they're used? Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating some of John's Thai food? I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some patient going into shock? In my small experience with seeing people go into shock it was a food allergy and took 20 minutes to get full blown and the victim was already in the hospital and treated. Our former next-door-neighbor always carried an epi-pen in the back yard. Supposedly, he had almost died once from a bee sting. I got the impression that for him, the reaction was quite quick. That was my experience. Three years ago my wife and I decided to keep bees. Bees are about as low maintenance as any livestock can be, are good for the garden, fun to watch. There is an active community of amateur beekeepers in our area, so it's easy to get advice, borrow equipment, and so forth. So we put together a hive, and ordered a package of bees. When it arrived, I had never been stung by a honeybee, although I had often played with them as a child. They were in a mood, and by the time they were installed I had been stung several times, and bailed out of my overalls before I got to our back door. Both of us were stung a few times that year, it's something you have to expect. Our hive failed to thrive (we probably lost at least one queen), and it died that winter. So we read E. B. White's "Death of a Pig", and resolved to try again. Our next colony seemed a bit more aggresive in defending themselves, which we took for a good sign. Again, both of us were stung a few times, with the normal results: pain, swelling, and itching. Not that big a deal. At one point my wife managed to get herself stung near the eye, which swelled more or less shut. Still pretty normal. One day last August I rode home from work, and went upstairs to take a shower. My wife said she had been stung, and felt a little odd. She showed me her forearms, which had hives. In my small experience hives were something that came and went away spontaneously, so I told her "you're not going to die", and I took a quick shower. I'm sure it was less than five minutes, because I was a little worried. When I looked out the window, I saw flashing lights. She had begun to feel a great deal worse, called 911, and gone to sit on a bench at the front of the house. Fortunately the ambulance was there in two minutes or so, and they found her in the tripod position, vomiting on the lawn. They gave her two epipens, loaded her in the ambulance, and took her to ER. I followed, and when I got there everything seemed under control, the ER doctor patiently explained what she was doing, why my wife was shivering (loads of epinephrine) and so forth. Then they tried to get her to change position, she started coughing or retching, and her blood pressure fell way too far. Suddenly there were a lot of people in the room, all throwing stuff on the floor (how do they avoid tripping on it?), doing this, that or the other thing, and looking suddenly concerned. I did my best to stay out of the way. They were just preparing to intubate when they got the blood pressure more or less under control. Eventually my wife was fine, although she stayed in the ER that night, and in the hospital for two more nights, and felt a bit puny for months. The first allergic reaction took no more than 10 minutes from sting to full blown anaphylactic shock. They told us the next one would be considerably quicker. They prescribed her to carry two epipens, and, if stung, to immediately inject one and call 911. One epipen was expected just to provide time enough to get to the hospital. Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. We gave the hive away to our beekeeping mentor. I helped him load it into his car, and surprised myself by how sad I was to see it go. We heard the colony died last winter as well. The really odd part of the story is, he loved bees and had a beehive in the far back corner. But he had a friend do the major tending chores. -- |
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#173
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California's Fires
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. And that they are a lot more aggressive. |
#174
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California's Fires
writes:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. And that they are a lot more aggressive. Only in warmer regions than mine. I'm not sure exactly what it is about cold weather that prevents the africanized bees from spreading. In South Africa and Brazil, beekeepers have learned to deal with the bees, which are productive, but I doubt they're fun for amateurs. Incidentally, I've read that the main reason the africanized bees are the way they are is the honey badger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yj Apparently they're much worse than bears on bee hives. -- |
#175
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California's Fires
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#176
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California's Fires
On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true. You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have this "google" thing... And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source. Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about hives dying. This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for Democrat campaigns. |
#177
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California's Fires
writes:
On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true. You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have this "google" thing... And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source. Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about hives dying. I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters. Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to mortality. This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for Democrat campaigns. Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own? -- |
#178
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California's Fires
On 10/31/2017 3:13 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes: On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true. You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have this "google" thing... And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source. Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about hives dying. I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters. Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to mortality. I have a brother who kept bees. We have some interesting photos of him installing his first bees in his first hive. He was suited up in full regalia, brushing the mail order bees into the hive. I was standing about six feet away in shorts and a tee shirt, handing him tools. I don't think he ever got stung, but he was very cautious, and sadly, gave up after one year after his hive died,and he learned that half the hives in his area died. This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for Democrat campaigns. Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own? No thanks. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#179
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California's Fires
On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 12:13:33 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes: On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 9:09:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/31/2017 9:28 AM, wrote: On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 6:36:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life threatening problem. I've heard that 90% of the honeybee hives have been africanized at this point. Sorry, Tom, but that too is not true. You know, a lot of these things are pretty easy to look up. They have this "google" thing... And as usual you get your information from Google and not the actual source. Radey says that Africanized bees are only in warmer areas and yet he is getting many stings - my cousins kept bees, only wore protective netting on their faces and never got stung - and he also talks about hives dying. I said that if you kept bees you would get stung. That is true for all strains of bees. I only ever wore a hat, veil and gloves, never bought the whole suit because it did not seem necessary. Hives are dying, but their survival was never assured, particularly during long winters. Parasites, in particular the varroa mite, are a big contributor to mortality. This doesn't ring any bells with your formal education does it? Go google that jackass. Or better yet try Snopes who claim to be politically neutral and yet most of their staff have worked for Democrat campaigns. Perhaps you and Frank should get a room of your own? Radey - what is an "africanized" bee? Well, the TECHNICAL definition is that they have both DNA, physical and hormonal differences from the standard honey bee. Some 60% of bees in the wild fit all of these standards. However almost all of the bees in the US below the 37th parallel have at least one of these traits. The one outstanding identifying trait is that they do not survive in cold weather that normal American honey bees do. Frank loves to use Google to gain his knowledge instead of having a family of farmers that have to hire bee keepers to pollinate crops. It's that "formal education" sort of thing. |
#180
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California's Fires
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