A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Build it and they won't come



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #421  
Old October 12th 17, 09:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:23:29 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 5:34:34 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

Thanks to the previous president we now have a $5k deductible, per
person, plus over $11k/year in premiums and the ER is I believe $200 min
charge just to say hi. The handshake with the family physician is
cheaper, "only" $70.


I pay $4200 per year. My deductible is similar to you. $11,000 per year? What are you buying? Platinum, gold plated, diamond encrusted insurance where the doctors visit your house every week? Why you choose to buy such expensive and foolish insurance is your choice. Wow. Don't know what the Emergency Room costs on my plan since I don't go to the ER. Ambulances are $250, not covered by my insurance unless admitted to the ER. My plan provides several specialists such as endocrinologists, podiatrists, opthamologists for just $5 copay. General exam each year is $5 too. I think you need to do a much better job of investigating your insurance options. You seem to be a sucker who bends over and reaches back and spreads them for whomever wants to put it in.


Like a
couple months ago when I had another bad case of poison oak, went
online, went in same day. I knew exactly what I needed but the law and
medical turf protection requires the doc has to see you or you won't get
the ointment.


Why do you need special medicine for poison oak? Cortisone treats it very effectively. Cortisone costs $2 per tube at the pharmacy. You seem to be one of those people who deliberately drives up medical costs. Don't waste money and medical resources by going to the doctor for frivolous stuff. Just go to the local pharmacy and get a $2 tube of cortisone.


Calamine lotion used to be the "drug of choice" for poison ivy or oak
rashes :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #422  
Old October 12th 17, 01:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Build it and they won't come

On 10/11/2017 8:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:25:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 6:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Nobody is stupid enough to
think all 11 speed CF bikes are useful only for TDF riders. Both 11 speed
and CF frames are pretty much the standard offering at most bike shops
around here.


Of course, people are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I see that
"standard offering at most bike shops" as somewhat weird.

Think about it. Most people who go into most bike shops are never going
to race. Most are almost never going to try to ride fast. But it sounds
like that "standard offering" is optimized for fast riding in many ways.

I know some CF 11-speed bikes make it possible to (say) fit racks and
fenders and lights and decent-sized bags and wider tires and low gears.
But if your shops are like ours, the ones that have 11 speed CF as
"standard" tend to reject those ideas.

"28mm tires? Sorry, not on these bikes. The brakes won't allow them."
That's what a friend of mine heard.

People are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I think a lot of people
are convinced to "prefer" something that's ill-suited to their real
world riding.


While I agree with you in principal I wonder but what the bike shops
aren't offering "what sells". At the shop I usually patronize I have
often seen the sales people suggesting a sort of mundane middle of the
range bike to people who quite obviously do not have any idea what
they are doing and almost universally the buyer will say something
like "Oh, only 9 gears? But that one has 11".

I wonder whether Andrew might comment here?



When you completely understand retail psychology, write me a
letter please. No one else does.

For every hypothesis, there a many examples and many
counterexamples. Which is good. People are not widgets, they
are actors driven by complex sometimes illogical meatware.

What I do know is that any business with stock merchandise
their clientele doesn't buy is not long for this world.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #423  
Old October 12th 17, 01:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Build it and they won't come

On 10/12/2017 3:46 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 00:49:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 9:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:29:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 9:42 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 4:54:17 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

It seems unlikely, at best, to believe that you didn't understand the
content of the original posts between Frank and I where he commented
that punching holes in a paper target with a gun and thinking you were
a big, bad, man was childish.

I then replied "like a 60 year old guy on a CF racing bike".

I can only assume that you are interjecting your off topic remarks
deliberately. So yes, goodbye.

Walking off in a snit again John? Really, get over yourself. You're beginning to sound like Frank who denies that where the strongest guns laws are we have the highest rates of gun crimes and where the least gun laws are in effect the murder rates are insignificant.

You mean like Canada vs. the U.S.? Or like Windsor vs. Detroit? Got
numbers?

Even a casual look shows little correlation between gun ownership in
the U.S. and homicides.

Gun ownership
http://tinyurl.com/ybnxnu8x
States with Extremely High Populations of Gun Owners (more than 50%)

1. Wyoming - 59.7% Homicide rate 2.7/100,000
2. Alaska - 57.8% 8.0
3. Montana - 57.7% 3.5
4. South Dakota - 56.6% 3.7
5. West Virginia - 55.4% 3.8
6. Mississippi - 55.3% 8.7
6. Idaho - 55.3% 1.9
6. Arkansas - 55.3% 6.1
9. Alabama - 51.7% 7.2
10. North Dakota - 50.7% 2.8

States with Below Median Populations of Gun Owners

40. Delaware - 25.5% Homicide rate 6.7/100,000
41. Florida - 24.5% 5.1
42. California - 21.3% 4.8
42. Maryland - 21.3% 8.6
44. Illinois - 20.2% 5.8
45. New York - 18% 3.1
46. Connecticut - 16.7% 3.3
47. Rhode Island - 12.8% 2.7
48. Massachusetts - 12.6% 1.9
49. New Jersey - 12.3% 4.1
50. Hawaii - 6.7% 1.3

Homicide rate from
http://tinyurl.com/gp9usuy

The State with the lowest homicide rate is New Hampshire (1.1/100,000)
and gun ownership of 30%.


I've been generally aware of that data for quite a while. Digging
deeper, here is what I think it shows:

States with lower population density, and especially with a greater
percentage of their population living in rural areas, tend to have more
people who own rifles and shotguns used for hunting and "varmint"
control. They also have much less of the social stress derived from
mixed cultures in dense cities.


Whether it is lower density or whatever I'm fairly sure that the
people are the major problem area. To make a very broad statement I
suggest that crime, of all kinds, and economic conditions.
particularly poverty, are associated, probably closely.

Here, during a previous administration jobs just seemed to evaporate
and crime increased to the point that women no longer wore their gold
neck chains. Then another coup and the economy grew and crime
decreased, and the neck chains reappeared :-)

But please note: I'm strongly in favor of hunting with guns. I'm
strongly in favor of most varmint control. I'm not talking about
reducing the number of guns in general.

Instead, I'm talking about reducing (or ideally, eliminating) the number
of guns specifically designed for killing other people. Those would
include guns designed or modified to shoot rapidly and to shoot many
rounds without reloading. And to further infuriate the gun nuts, I'd be
in favor of eventually reducing the number of handguns, since almost all
of those are intended as people killers.


The problem is, as I tried to point out, is that any configuration of
a "gun" can be used to kill people. Wild Bill Hickok kill at least 8
people with a .36 caliber cap and ball revolver, which is classified
as an antique and can be legally owned by anyone today. At the
gun fight at the O.K. Corral" at least one individual was armed with a
double barrel shotgun, which is commonly used to hunt with. The so
called "Bump Stock" is legal as the federal definition of a machine
gun is any weapon that fires more than once when the trigger is
pulled.

I might add that the original "Bowie knife" probably had a blade in
the neighborhood of 9 or 10 inches long. You can buy a Chef's knife
from Amazon that is 10 inches long.


So: If we could correlate the number of non-hunting guns with gun
homicide rates, I suspect we'd see much different results. I think the
number of people-killing guns correlates pretty well with the rate of
gun deaths.





But I doubt that information is out there. The NRA has successfully
purchased laws that prohibit studying gun violence too closely.


I'm not so sure about that as without very much effort I seem to find
a considerable amount of official data regarding shootings.

But some of the NRA's propaganda is accurate. The numbers of people
with Concealed Carry Permits and the number of them that commit a "gun
crime", for example, seems to provide a pretty good argument to the
"guns = gun crime" theory.

I think that the real point is that some people, nations, or races, or
economic condition, or whatever, are just more aggressive then others,
and will commit more murders with whatever is available.

The Japanese, where ownership of a weapon by the average citizen has
first banned in the 1600's, seem quite adapt at killing people with a
knife. Most of the African massacres have been carried out with
machetes.

If you've got your mind made up to do it you can find something to
accomplish the task.

A couple of references:
for the U.S. see http://tinyurl.com/yb98o45z

and for the effects of the Australian gun ban see
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/c...00/cfi095.html



Indeed. I linked earlier to machine gun ownership by State
but post-WWII incidents of one used in a crime or against a
human at all are vanishingly rare[1]. Frank's Ohio is awash
in machine gun owners for example and yet, like most
firearms owners, another day has passed uneventfully.

Speaking of propaganda, the blathering media speaks of
firearm deaths by lumping suicide & accidental discharge in
with other crime. Like a stopped clock, even The Old Red
Lady gets this right once in a while:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/u...-suicides.html

[1]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZg4mcYkIwU

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #424  
Old October 12th 17, 01:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Build it and they won't come

On 12/10/2017 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/11/2017 8:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:25:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 6:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Nobody is stupid enough to
think all 11 speed CF bikes are useful only for TDF riders.Â*Â* Both
11 speed
and CF frames are pretty much the standard offering at most bike shops
around here.

Of course, people are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I see that
"standard offering at most bike shops" as somewhat weird.

Think about it. Most people who go into most bike shops are never going
to race. Most are almost never going to try to ride fast. But it sounds
like that "standard offering" is optimized for fast riding in many ways.

I know some CF 11-speed bikes make it possible to (say) fit racks and
fenders and lights and decent-sized bags and wider tires and low gears.
But if your shops are like ours, the ones that have 11 speed CF as
"standard" tend to reject those ideas.

"28mm tires? Sorry, not on these bikes. The brakes won't allow them."
That's what a friend of mine heard.

People are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I think a lot of people
are convinced to "prefer" something that's ill-suited to their real
world riding.


While I agree with you in principal I wonder but what the bike shops
aren't offering "what sells". At the shop I usually patronize I have
often seen the sales people suggesting a sort of mundane middle of the
range bike to people who quite obviously do not have any idea what
they are doing and almost universally the buyer will say something
like "Oh, only 9 gears? But that one has 11".

I wonder whether Andrew might comment here?



When you completely understand retail psychology, write me a letter
please. No one else does.

For every hypothesis, there a many examples and many counterexamples.
Which is good. People are not widgets, they are actors driven by complex
sometimes illogical meatware.

What I do know is that any business with stock merchandise their
clientele doesn't buy is not long for this world.


I thought we were talking about road bikes. Those are mostly 11 speed
CF around here except for some lower end offerings such as Specialized
Secteur. My LBS sells hybrids, MTBs etc. as well.
  #425  
Old October 12th 17, 02:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Build it and they won't come

On 10/12/2017 7:54 AM, Duane wrote:
On 12/10/2017 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/11/2017 8:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:25:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 6:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Nobody is stupid enough to
think all 11 speed CF bikes are useful only for TDF
riders.  Both 11 speed
and CF frames are pretty much the standard offering at
most bike shops
around here.

Of course, people are allowed to buy what they prefer.
But I see that
"standard offering at most bike shops" as somewhat weird.

Think about it. Most people who go into most bike shops
are never going
to race. Most are almost never going to try to ride
fast. But it sounds
like that "standard offering" is optimized for fast
riding in many ways.

I know some CF 11-speed bikes make it possible to (say)
fit racks and
fenders and lights and decent-sized bags and wider tires
and low gears.
But if your shops are like ours, the ones that have 11
speed CF as
"standard" tend to reject those ideas.

"28mm tires? Sorry, not on these bikes. The brakes won't
allow them."
That's what a friend of mine heard.

People are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I think
a lot of people
are convinced to "prefer" something that's ill-suited to
their real
world riding.

While I agree with you in principal I wonder but what the
bike shops
aren't offering "what sells". At the shop I usually
patronize I have
often seen the sales people suggesting a sort of mundane
middle of the
range bike to people who quite obviously do not have any
idea what
they are doing and almost universally the buyer will say
something
like "Oh, only 9 gears? But that one has 11".

I wonder whether Andrew might comment here?



When you completely understand retail psychology, write me
a letter please. No one else does.

For every hypothesis, there a many examples and many
counterexamples. Which is good. People are not widgets,
they are actors driven by complex sometimes illogical
meatware.

What I do know is that any business with stock merchandise
their clientele doesn't buy is not long for this world.


I thought we were talking about road bikes. Those are
mostly 11 speed CF around here except for some lower end
offerings such as Specialized Secteur. My LBS sells
hybrids, MTBs etc. as well.


Really? My most popular models are 2x8 and 2x9 this year.
Carbon fork aluminum frame Bianchis.
Up slightly to $700 & $950 for 2018

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...nirone-claris/
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...a-nirone-sora/

p.s. 44cm frame size very popular in this model:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...one-dama-sora/

Not that we eschew CF or 2x11 (we don't), but there's less
unit volume at higher prices just like everything else and
it's split up among CF race bikes, wider clearance CF
models, steel (especially premium USA) models of various
styles and gearing etc etc.

Single fixed is way down, dammit. That party's over I think.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #426  
Old October 12th 17, 02:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Build it and they won't come

On 12/10/2017 9:11 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/12/2017 7:54 AM, Duane wrote:
On 12/10/2017 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/11/2017 8:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:25:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 6:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Nobody is stupid enough to
think all 11 speed CF bikes are useful only for TDF
riders. ÂÂ* Both 11 speed
and CF frames are pretty much the standard offering at
most bike shops
around here.

Of course, people are allowed to buy what they prefer.
But I see that
"standard offering at most bike shops" as somewhat weird.

Think about it. Most people who go into most bike shops
are never going
to race. Most are almost never going to try to ride
fast. But it sounds
like that "standard offering" is optimized for fast
riding in many ways.

I know some CF 11-speed bikes make it possible to (say)
fit racks and
fenders and lights and decent-sized bags and wider tires
and low gears.
But if your shops are like ours, the ones that have 11
speed CF as
"standard" tend to reject those ideas.

"28mm tires? Sorry, not on these bikes. The brakes won't
allow them."
That's what a friend of mine heard.

People are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I think
a lot of people
are convinced to "prefer" something that's ill-suited to
their real
world riding.

While I agree with you in principal I wonder but what the
bike shops
aren't offering "what sells". At the shop I usually
patronize I have
often seen the sales people suggesting a sort of mundane
middle of the
range bike to people who quite obviously do not have any
idea what
they are doing and almost universally the buyer will say
something
like "Oh, only 9 gears? But that one has 11".

I wonder whether Andrew might comment here?


When you completely understand retail psychology, write me
a letter please. No one else does.

For every hypothesis, there a many examples and many
counterexamples. Which is good. People are not widgets,
they are actors driven by complex sometimes illogical
meatware.

What I do know is that any business with stock merchandise
their clientele doesn't buy is not long for this world.


I thought we were talking about road bikes.Â* Those are
mostly 11 speed CF around here except for some lower end
offerings such as Specialized Secteur.Â* My LBS sells
hybrids, MTBs etc. as well.


Really? My most popular models are 2x8 and 2x9 this year. Carbon fork
aluminum frame Bianchis.
Up slightly to $700 & $950 for 2018

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...nirone-claris/
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...a-nirone-sora/

p.s. 44cm frame size very popular in this model:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...one-dama-sora/

Not that we eschew CF or 2x11 (we don't), but there's less unit volume
at higher prices just like everything else and it's split up among CF
race bikes, wider clearance CF models, steel (especially premium USA)
models of various styles and gearing etc etc.

Single fixed is way down, dammit. That party's over I think.


I can only speak for the shop I use. The have started selling a local
brand called DaVinci which likely has some models like you're describing.

For some reason it's hard to find Bianchi around Montreal. My intention
when buying a road bike initially was to get a Bianchi as I was happy
with my Volpe. Couldn't really find one here.
  #427  
Old October 12th 17, 02:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Build it and they won't come

On 10/12/2017 8:22 AM, Duane wrote:
On 12/10/2017 9:11 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/12/2017 7:54 AM, Duane wrote:
On 12/10/2017 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/11/2017 8:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:25:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2017 6:23 AM, Duane wrote:
Nobody is stupid enough to
think all 11 speed CF bikes are useful only for TDF
riders.  Both 11 speed
and CF frames are pretty much the standard offering at
most bike shops
around here.

Of course, people are allowed to buy what they prefer.
But I see that
"standard offering at most bike shops" as somewhat weird.

Think about it. Most people who go into most bike shops
are never going
to race. Most are almost never going to try to ride
fast. But it sounds
like that "standard offering" is optimized for fast
riding in many ways.

I know some CF 11-speed bikes make it possible to (say)
fit racks and
fenders and lights and decent-sized bags and wider tires
and low gears.
But if your shops are like ours, the ones that have 11
speed CF as
"standard" tend to reject those ideas.

"28mm tires? Sorry, not on these bikes. The brakes won't
allow them."
That's what a friend of mine heard.

People are allowed to buy what they prefer. But I think
a lot of people
are convinced to "prefer" something that's ill-suited to
their real
world riding.

While I agree with you in principal I wonder but what the
bike shops
aren't offering "what sells". At the shop I usually
patronize I have
often seen the sales people suggesting a sort of mundane
middle of the
range bike to people who quite obviously do not have any
idea what
they are doing and almost universally the buyer will say
something
like "Oh, only 9 gears? But that one has 11".

I wonder whether Andrew might comment here?


When you completely understand retail psychology, write me
a letter please. No one else does.

For every hypothesis, there a many examples and many
counterexamples. Which is good. People are not widgets,
they are actors driven by complex sometimes illogical
meatware.

What I do know is that any business with stock merchandise
their clientele doesn't buy is not long for this world.


I thought we were talking about road bikes. Those are
mostly 11 speed CF around here except for some lower end
offerings such as Specialized Secteur. My LBS sells
hybrids, MTBs etc. as well.


Really? My most popular models are 2x8 and 2x9 this year.
Carbon fork aluminum frame Bianchis.
Up slightly to $700 & $950 for 2018

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...nirone-claris/

http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...a-nirone-sora/


p.s. 44cm frame size very popular in this model:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/road...one-dama-sora/


Not that we eschew CF or 2x11 (we don't), but there's less
unit volume at higher prices just like everything else and
it's split up among CF race bikes, wider clearance CF
models, steel (especially premium USA) models of various
styles and gearing etc etc.

Single fixed is way down, dammit. That party's over I think.


I can only speak for the shop I use. The have started
selling a local brand called DaVinci which likely has some
models like you're describing.

For some reason it's hard to find Bianchi around Montreal.
My intention when buying a road bike initially was to get a
Bianchi as I was happy with my Volpe. Couldn't really find
one here.


Yeah that's really wack now- every country is separate.
Bianchi Japan is a real outlier for creativity and oddities.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #428  
Old October 12th 17, 02:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 6:56:07 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 6:38:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:

snip

The link is just a product page on the Specialized site. Is there a report of the S-Works McLaren Di2s breaking at the bottom bracket? Sure glad I didn't buy one -- at $11,500.


There were no reports that I have seen. I reported that I saw two Treks crack near the bottom brackets. I assume that since most of these CF bikes come out of two factories that they all have more or less the same problems.

I went into a Specialized shop yesterday and what looks like a brace between the two tubes is nothing more than some sort of odd plastic cover. I have no idea what it is there for or why.

But you are quite correct that the prices of bikes and component groups are entirely out of hand. This is why most high end bikes these days are going with the moderately priced Ultegra group.
  #429  
Old October 12th 17, 02:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 8:29:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/11/2017 9:42 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 4:54:17 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

It seems unlikely, at best, to believe that you didn't understand the
content of the original posts between Frank and I where he commented
that punching holes in a paper target with a gun and thinking you were
a big, bad, man was childish.

I then replied "like a 60 year old guy on a CF racing bike".

I can only assume that you are interjecting your off topic remarks
deliberately. So yes, goodbye.


Walking off in a snit again John? Really, get over yourself. You're beginning to sound like Frank who denies that where the strongest guns laws are we have the highest rates of gun crimes and where the least gun laws are in effect the murder rates are insignificant.


You mean like Canada vs. the U.S.? Or like Windsor vs. Detroit? Got
numbers?


By all means compare a mixed race area in the US with a very wide economic spread with another country with a large majority of one race with a narrow economic spread because it makes your point.

Tell me Frank - are you beginning to have those "episodes"?
  #430  
Old October 12th 17, 02:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Build it and they won't come

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 11:52:35 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-11 10:46, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:47:14 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
snip

But you use the word "be obliged". Be obligated by who?


By the law. Just like if you build a structure that impedes your
neighbor's access to his house you are obliged to accommodate him.


A brilliant lawyer I know litigated that issue:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rex-b...b_3861490.html


https://www.leagle.com/decision/19951583891p2d69211571

You need a law to start with, however. Joerg needs to go to his
legislature. It's not a long ride to Sacramento -- and mostly on the
American River Trail.


We simply vote with our feet (the pedaling ones). Some communities do
nothing. Others where the leaders are smart require any new road
construction to have bicycling facilities. Folsom is an example.
Therefore, I spend more of my money in such communities than in the ones
without smart leaders. Many others think the same way and the results
are mostly felt by restaurants and pubs. For me it's also hardware
stores and such.


There is a semi-major road near us that just did a really odd thing. They converted the road from a four lane barrier divided road to a two lane road with the CENTER LANES turned into a cross-hatch white line. This is a commonly used bicycle route and they did not add a bicycle lane.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Women Build Big Muscles? Why Women Cant Build Big Muscles Easily [email protected] UK 0 February 16th 08 10:41 PM
Anyone looking to build a bc? Free hazard hub with a Stockton build! Evan Byrne Unicycling 5 September 14th 06 09:59 AM
Anyone looking to build a bc? Free hazard hub with a Stockton build! Evan Byrne Unicycling 0 August 25th 06 11:05 PM
Disc Wheel Build Build Suggestions osobailo Techniques 2 October 5th 04 01:55 PM
? - To build or not to build -- a bike - ? Andrew Short Techniques 16 August 4th 03 04:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.