#101
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
On 10/25/2017 11:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/25/2017 5:06 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 10/25/2017 3:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/25/2017 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 10/25/2017 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/25/2017 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 10/24/2017 10:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/24/2017 9:24 PM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:42:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/24/2017 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote: an old observation but still true: Under capitalism, it's man against man. Under enlightened communism, it's the other way around. I'd say that under modern American capitalism, it's billion dollar corporation against man. Probably true. But what is the alternate? Or perhaps, what is a politically viable alternate? It is tough to envision an alternative, especially a near-term one. The fact is, large corporations have money to affect the election process in ways that no individuals can hope counter. Current Ohio example: Issue Two in this next election will involve prices for pharmaceuticals. The measure is badly written in some ways, but the essence is that no state agency should pay more for pharmaceuticals than the prices negotiated by the Veteran's Administration. (The VA is allowed to negotiate and does, just as do the medical sytems in Canada, Britain, France, etc. and as a result they pay FAR less.) As I said, there are problems with this issue. But it's amazing to watch the tidal waves of advertising the pharmaceutical companies are funding to have it defeated. Ads on TV are at least 10 to 1 against it. They are spending fortunes in their efforts. Why? Because they have the money to do so, and they want to keep getting that money. And of course, the ads are very misleading - such as "defeat it because it doesn't cover 3/4 of Ohioans!" Right, because it applies only to state agencies, and most don't get their medications that way. Other examples abound. But when an industry like this has unlimited money to spend, they can pretty much buy what they want. Note to non-USians: The USA is one of only two developed nations where drug companies can, and do, market prescription medications directly to consumers; as in "Tell your doctor you want THIS prescription drug!" As a result, TV ads are almost totally dominated by prescription medicine ads and, of course, motor vehicle ads. And as with any other human interaction, you're free to buy or not buy whatever the hell they're hawking. In some cases, yes. We recently made that decision on one family member's medicine. The doctor prescribed a time release version that was exorbitantly expensive, in part because there is no generic for that version. But there is a generic for the alternative that you must remember to take twice per day. I phoned the doctor and had him change to that generic, and there have been no problems. Trouble is, "free to not buy" has little meaning when the medication in question is literally necessary for life. One recent example is the Epi-pen. See https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oost/89129620/ "Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, has written the manufacturer, Mylan, asking for the reasons behind the price boosts for EpiPen, an epinephine auto-injector used to treat allergy reactions that has seen its price rise from $57 in 2007 to about $500 today." As I recall, the ultimate answer was "We raised the price because we could." Or more generally, there's this: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/b...-protests.html There's another medication in the house that costs a bundle and is not available in generic form. Turns out that in other countries it is a generic. Here, they've managed to control the patents not because of the medication, but because of the cute little dispenser. Fortunately, that med is needed only rarely - but the legal/marketing ploy is pretty offensive. Bike analogy: I didn't mind SunTour having a patent preventing other companies from using a slant parallelogram derailleur. But I would have been pretty offended if the law said "Bicyclists must use only one rear cog," or "bicyclists can change from one gear to another only using their bare hands." For example, I notice a constant series of complaints about WalMart, product and policy, but I have never been inside one myself. When I ask, "So why do you shop there?" I just get a blank stare. I hear you. I don't shop there, deliberately. Epinephrine is generic and old; predates FDA regulation. The branded pen device is patented and they keep making minor changes to extend the device patent. Possession of a syringe was, in recent memory, a crime. That's no longer true. But hey if you find the pen device handy, it costs more. Using your own epinephrine and your own syringe sounds fine. Unless, that is, you're trying to fumble with it in the middle of an anaphylactic event. Especially if you're a kid. Fortunately, the public outcry and legislative interest kicked in and forced that poor, poor corporation to backtrack a bit. I do feel sorry for the corporation. Somebody needs to give it a nice hug, to make it feel better. There are competitors with similar devices but somehow the FDA has magically ruled against them repeatedly (safety first! it's for the children!) despite at least one being an exact copy of an older expired patent version of EpiPen. They are available in other countries. http://www.fiercepharma.com/sales-an...cruise-control Holy crap! I didn't know the situation had changed. Somebody is MAGA: http://nypost.com/2017/06/16/fda-app...ive-to-epipen/ I fully expect you to support this administration for a 2d term! From your article: "Mylan, which has US headquarters near Pittsburgh, launched generic EpiPens last December in an effort to deflect mounting criticism." I'll consider supporting the FDA. I don't think this has anything to do with any elected administration. Gurgle Dr Scott Gottleib. He promised big changes and amazingly here's at least one. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Ads |
#102
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. |
#104
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
writes:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose, and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and mentally. The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer. The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing products approved, and too easy to milk government protected intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery. -- |
#105
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
|
#106
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose, and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and mentally. The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer. The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing products approved, and too easy to milk government protected intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery. -- Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry medication and hypos. Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating some of John's Thai food? |
#107
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes: [...] And MANY of the drugs that are sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were immediately copied the second that the patents ran out. You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we have patents. Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic. Some of the instruments I developed for assisting the development of drugs cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and these required many of these per facility. Literally thousands of tests are required per each drug and no matter how well they are tested anyone can have a reaction to them. We end up with these silly commercials on TV - "If you die from our drug stop using it." |
#108
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
writes:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: writes: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose, and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and mentally. The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer. The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing products approved, and too easy to milk government protected intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery. -- Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry medication and hypos. Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date. Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before they're used? Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating some of John's Thai food? I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some patient going into shock? -- |
#109
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
writes:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: writes: [...] And MANY of the drugs that are sold by competing foreign firms were developed in the US and were immediately copied the second that the patents ran out. You say that like it's a bad thing. I thought it was the very reason we have patents. Huh? I am responding to comments about the cost of drugs. We had Jay not understanding that the cost of developing drugs is gigantic. Some of the instruments I developed for assisting the development of drugs cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and these required many of these per facility. Literally thousands of tests are required per each drug and no matter how well they are tested anyone can have a reaction to them. We end up with these silly commercials on TV - "If you die from our drug stop using it." Your statement implied that marketing a drug the second the patent ran out was somehow underhanded. It's not, that's how markets and patents are supposed to work. -- |
#110
|
|||
|
|||
California's Fires
On 10/26/2017 1:36 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: writes: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: P.S. I just came across this on you tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would know what to do? So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more convenient method available. Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose, and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and mentally. The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer. The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing products approved, and too easy to milk government protected intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery. -- Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry medication and hypos. Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date. Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before they're used? Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating some of John's Thai food? I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some patient going into shock? By the way do you know if the recommended dose is weight-adjusted? I'm thinking your standard issue 8 year old with peanut allergy versus a 350lb adult USAian. I don't know. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Bicycle Fires | Frank Krygowski[_3_] | Techniques | 5 | September 13th 12 03:41 AM |
California fires | raisethe | UK | 4 | October 28th 07 04:34 PM |
California fires | [email protected] | Australia | 0 | October 25th 07 09:38 PM |
Fires around Bright | Walrus | Australia | 17 | December 14th 06 08:14 AM |
After the fires - a RR | Michael Paul | Mountain Biking | 9 | November 11th 03 04:35 PM |