Review: St. John's St. Cycles cheapie 110 PCD alloy crankset (~$60.00US) for old-fashioned BBs

Of course I'm going to move my Phil BB over to the left as far as possible before doing any filing.

On 2/2/2015 9:35 AM, wrote:
Of course, Gene. I always do everything you say.

The chain line was terrible (way too far out), but of course that has nothing to do with the quality of the crankset. It runs nice and true, and the steel chainrings seem run pretty quietly and smoothly.

I am going to correct the chain line by hook or crook. Mostly by crook. (I'm going to file and grind, since I intend to get rid of the old-fashioned bottom bracket some day anyway.)

Also, I have found that St. John's Street Cycles gives quite good customer service. They responded to my email inquiry promptly and in detail. I think they're almost as good a shop as that one in Madison, WI. And besides, they taught me a new cycling word: Audax!


If you want a suggestion, ask the vendor for the correct
spindle dimensions and buy one. The likelihood of a
successful adventure with "file and grind" is vanishingly small.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 8:47:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/2/2015 9:22 AM, wrote:
I can handle being shunned, Jay (it wouldn't be the first time!), but I can't find any Paramount Club meeting to attend! Does anybody really care about old steel frames anymore? (Not counting that "classic bike" website where the webmaster is a petty dictator. I refuse to go there anymore because my free-speech rights are too important to me.)


As much as classic cars or motorcycles, and across a similar
spectrum.

There are riders who just prefer steel, new or vintage.

Then there are people who like the aesthetic of vintage
bicycles and are manic about getting every bit exactly
period correct.

Gads, around here, there is a steel frame builder under every rock -- sharing space with a barista and a stripper.

http://madeinportland.org/bikes

O.K., Renovo is wood. Speaking of wood:

http://www.wweek.com/portland/articl...laid_bare.html

Classic steel bikes are big around here. This is my neighborhood bike shop (five minute ride from my house, including the stop light). http://www.burlingamebikes.com/

The best old bike display is at River City. http://tinyurl.com/q5e65ty A classic Paramount on display -- among many others including very early (scary) CF.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2/2/2015 12:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 8:47:13 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/2/2015 9:22 AM, wrote:
I can handle being shunned, Jay (it wouldn't be the first time!), but I can't find any Paramount Club meeting to attend! Does anybody really care about old steel frames anymore? (Not counting that "classic bike" website where the webmaster is a petty dictator. I refuse to go there anymore because my free-speech rights are too important to me.)


As much as classic cars or motorcycles, and across a similar
spectrum.

There are riders who just prefer steel, new or vintage.

Then there are people who like the aesthetic of vintage
bicycles and are manic about getting every bit exactly
period correct.

Gads, around here, there is a steel frame builder under every rock -- sharing space with a barista and a stripper.

http://madeinportland.org/bikes

O.K., Renovo is wood. Speaking of wood:

http://www.wweek.com/portland/articl...laid_bare.html

Classic steel bikes are big around here. This is my neighborhood bike shop (five minute ride from my house, including the stop light). http://www.burlingamebikes.com/

The best old bike display is at River City. http://tinyurl.com/q5e65ty A classic Paramount on display -- among many others including very early (scary) CF.

-- Jay Beattie.


Sharp Saronni. I would ride that. I see they have a Chris
Kvale imported from across the tundra of Minnesota. Very nice.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 10:35:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Of course, Gene. I always do everything you say.

The chain line was terrible (way too far out), but of course that has nothing to do with the quality of the crankset. It runs nice and true, and the steel chainrings seem run pretty quietly and smoothly.

I am going to correct the chain line by hook or crook. Mostly by crook. (I'm going to file and grind, since I intend to get rid of the old-fashioned bottom bracket some day anyway.)

Also, I have found that St. John's Street Cycles gives quite good customer service. They responded to my email inquiry promptly and in detail. I think they're almost as good a shop as that one in Madison, WI. And besides, they taught me a new cycling word: Audax!

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCRRrrrrrrrrr....____/

what the old rings ? Yes, hangum high. The old rings will remind of goodtimes.

There is a formula A-C(d=J)-Y=N-1 like that for axle crank CR dimensions...find it on line. I may have found it at the old Third Hand/Loosescrews. Andy would know maybe JB.

With old steel no problem. does it all, isnot an object sought by thieves following you around town. I have a '78 Raleigh upgraded to 21C specs with mod brake mechanisms/hubs/cable/bar/wheels but retaining the quill so far.

I would look for a Ti with geometry for my extra long body but that would be a secret under rustoleum. I had fancied a Tuscany but diverted into kayaking with Orca and whales leaving -N time for rec cycling.

The moderators doahn like me either. They are in it for potential monetary gains but are control freaks.

Bikepacking is an example. Bikepacker is a first off forum but with $$$ on the horizon a second packer site emerged shoving the first down the Goolist with multiple listings alongside a magazine n newsletter.

Here, we were undone by color print, formats giving the illusion of importance if you signed and off course Utube. The actual need for discussion and advice s waaaay done with vastly improved componentry.

Before Sheldon Brown and Harris online, cycle mechanics tended toward a guild mentality where asking the LBS only produced obfuscations. Now we're snowwwwed under online.

Frankly the Paramount looks a bit weak n weenie like you bought from Woolworths.

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 3:35:31 PM UTC, wrote:
Of course, Gene. I always do everything you say.

The chain line was terrible (way too far out), but of course that has nothing to do with the quality of the crankset. It runs nice and true, and the steel chainrings seem run pretty quietly and smoothly.

I am going to correct the chain line by hook or crook. Mostly by crook. (I'm going to file and grind, since I intend to get rid of the old-fashioned bottom bracket some day anyway.)

Christ, don't start filing; you'll never get it right and, besides the fit, you'll wreck the temper of the metal at the critical interface. Just get the right length spindle. And as for getting "rid of the old-fashioned bottom bracket", why should you want to get rid of square taper? All the alternatives are short-lived crap, all marketing promise and no road performance. Every top custom bicycle house in the world fits square taper bottom brackets because they're a known-reliable quantity. Your Phil is rebuildable, but some of the best square taper bottom brackets in the world cost under twenty bucks (try the cheapest Stronglight; I've had those in the Czech maker's own brand, and they're outstanding, fitted on some of the best bikes you can buy).

Also, I have found that St. John's Street Cycles gives quite good customer service. They responded to my email inquiry promptly and in detail. I think they're almost as good a shop as that one in Madison, WI. And besides, they taught me a new cycling word: Audax!

SJS is famous for the quality and depth of their service. They also make outstanding bikes, called Thorn, if you're in the market for a quality bike at the rational end of the market (no frills, no passing trends, everything thoroughly thought through, no boutigue crap, just a solid superb-fitting bike with the best components to serve your forever and not let you down in OuterUncivilizedStan); there are quite a few American owners of Thorns. The late Sheldon Brown, the most famous bike mechanic in the world (obituary in The Times of London for a bike mechanic in a small town outside Boston; unheard of, till then) rode a Thorn. I hang out on the Thorn forum with the Thorn owners because they are knowledgeable and amusing and have manners, and the Thorn designer is an unremitting rationalist: if he didn't insist on welding his frames, I'd ride one of his bike.

Andre Jute

Andre Jute wrote in
:

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 3:35:31 PM UTC,
wrote:
Of course, Gene. I always do everything you say.

The chain line was terrible (way too far out), but of course that has
not
hing to do with the quality of the crankset. It runs nice and true,
and the steel chainrings seem run pretty quietly and smoothly.

I am going to correct the chain line by hook or crook. Mostly by
crook. (
I'm going to file and grind, since I intend to get rid of the
old-fashioned bottom bracket some day anyway.)

Christ, don't start filing; you'll never get it right and, besides the
fit, you'll wreck the temper of the metal at the critical interface.
Just get the right length spindle. And as for getting "rid of the
old-fashioned bottom bracket", why should you want to get rid of
square taper? All the alternatives are short-lived crap, all marketing
promise and no road performance. Every top custom bicycle house in the
world fits square taper bottom brackets because they're a
known-reliable quantity. Your Phil is rebuildable, but some of the
best square taper bottom brackets in the world cost under twenty bucks
(try the cheapest Stronglight; I've had those in the Czech maker's own
brand, and they're outstanding, fitted on some of the best bikes you
can buy).

Also, I have found that St. John's Street Cycles gives quite good
custome
r service. They responded to my email inquiry promptly and in detail.
I think they're almost as good a shop as that one in Madison, WI. And
besides, they taught me a new cycling word: Audax!

SJS is famous for the quality and depth of their service. They also
make outstanding bikes, called Thorn, if you're in the market for a

I hang out on the Thorn forum with the Thorn owners
because they are knowledgeable and amusing and have manners, and the
Thorn designer is an unremitting rationalist: if he didn't insist on
welding his frames, I'd ride one of his bike.

Andre Jute

I ride an old Thorn Nomad with the straight toptube. The joins
are fillet brazed and look very attractive.

https://www.google.com/#q=SHELDON+BR...SPINDLE+TORQUE

Andy what's your take on torque ? 65 pounds on anti seize ?

we use red Loctite on the nut referring torch to failure. and pedal shaft.

"Christ, don't start filing; you'll never get it right and, besides the fit, you'll wreck the temper of the metal at the critical interface."

Nonsense. You're talkin' to an (admittedly amateur) machinist here, Andre! I just applied Prussian blue to the square taper and filed where the blue dye was pushed out. Then I machined 1/8" off the end of the axle so the crank wouldn't bottom out. In doing so, I managed to maintain perfect alignment and moved the crankset 1/8" that way, plus another 1/8" by adjusting the Phil BB.

When I got the chain line where I wanted it, I filed lightly on the crank's taper opposite the chainring runout until the runout disappeared.

Now I have less than 10 thou runout at the chainring: better than some Campy cranks I've had! And the Prussian blue pattern inside the crank's square taper is smoother than it was before I began filing, so the taper's fit is, if anything, BETTER than it was originally.

"Surface temper"?? I don't believe so; not with a forged crank. To my knowledge, you can't shot-peen or nitride forged aluminum (the two primary surface-hardening methods). A forged piece is hard all the way through; that's why they forge it. Besides, the mating surface area of the crank's square taper is so large compared to the load imposed on it that the actual pedaling load is virtually insignificant (assuming a good fit to begin with, and that it doesn't loosen up).

If anyone disagrees with me about the surface hardening issue, please feel free to correct me. I have thick skin.

On 2/2/2015 6:30 PM, wrote:


https://www.google.com/#q=SHELDON+BR...SPINDLE+TORQUE

Andy what's your take on torque ? 65 pounds on anti seize ?

we use red Loctite on the nut referring torch to failure. and pedal shaft.


Here's Campagnolo's opinion on that:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/crk_torq.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971