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#12
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
Rolf Mantel writes:
Am 30.07.2020 um 15:02 schrieb Bertrand: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left.Â* She was not watching for the biker, who had the right of way.Â* Still and all, I don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the right of stopped traffic. I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right.Â* I probably would have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace. What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there?Â* Just wait in line with the other vehicles? Rule 1 is "always chose a speed that allows you to stop in time". So if you approach a junction where the "straight though" traffic is not moving, you should have a max speed not more than 10mph. When you approach a junction at 10 mph and see a car turning directly into your path, you should be able to take avoiding action independent of the driver's error (if you desparately need a new bike you might still rely on the car yielding to you but it's not worth the hassle). Exactly this does (or did, before the covids turned me into a climb-the-stairs commuter) happen to me regularly. It's not even alarming. If I see a slowly moving car to my left begin to slow even more, leaving a gap in front, I know they're doing something. Sometimes they're texting. Otherwise they're letting some poor ******* turn left in front of them, or they're planning to turn right. If it's the left turner I stop and yield the right of way. This is certainly not legally required, but it's considered good manners in the local traffic culture. Anyone negotiating traffic in Boston, with a bike, car, or motorcycle, should figure out how this works in pretty short order. |
#13
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On 7/30/2020 3:22 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Bertrand writes: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the right of stopped traffic. I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace. What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with the other vehicles? I can't speak to vehicular cyclist approval, but any cyclist waiting in a long line of backed up cars in Massachusetts would be considered mental, and possibly dangerous. And I don't know any cyclist, including the Vehicular ones I know, who would wait in such a long line. However, I've seen cyclists who refuse to wait behind even three or four cars at a traffic light. I've seen them get passed by motorists, filter up to get ahead of those same motorists at a red light, and thus force the motorists to pass them again within a hundred yards or so. To me, that's no more logical than the "Must past bicyclist!!" motorists who pass dangerously 100 yards before a red light. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#14
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a hit-and-run. The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do that. Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them don't really need social security, they won't live that long. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him. From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after all. I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a while I do not trust green lights. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#15
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a hit-and-run. The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do that. Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them don't really need social security, they won't live that long. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him. From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after all. I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a while I do not trust green lights. It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along. If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap. I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over. -- Jay Beattie. |
#16
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 3:21:49 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a hit-and-run. The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do that. Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them don't really need social security, they won't live that long. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him. From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after all. I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a while I do not trust green lights. It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along. If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap. I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book.. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over. -- Jay Beattie. I did 36 miles and 2900 feet of climbing without a stop today. The final descent is about 600 feet and there was a cross wind and about 20 cars came by and them screwing the wind up have me weaving around a bit. They backed up at the bottom of the hill and the light changed and most of the cars were turning right because a block down was the freeway entrance. I was going to pull over to the center of that lane and pass them on the outside but one butt head was being polite and I had to stay in the bike lane and pass him on the right. It was nice of him to know I was there and to try and be polite but I never know if his motor died and he has to restart it or if he was texting and he cuts me off at the last second. Well, made another ride alive. I wonder how many of these I have left? |
#17
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand
wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the right of stopped traffic. I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace. What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with the other vehicles? I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT! Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit. Cheers, John B. |
#18
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
jbeattie writes:
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a hit-and-run. The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do that. Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them don't really need social security, they won't live that long. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him. From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after all. I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a while I do not trust green lights. It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along. If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap. Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars I'm not so sure about. I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over. They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation. |
#19
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On 7/30/2020 8:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:51 -0400, Bertrand wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Cars were stacked up for at least two blocks at the light, but did not block the intersection, allowing the driver to turn left. She was not watching for the biker, who had the right of way. Still and all, I don't think I would have wanted to go as fast as he did when to the right of stopped traffic. I agree. Blasting through the intersection like that risks a collision not only with a left-turning car that you can't see, but also with someone who decides at the last second to get out of that traffic and turn right. I probably would have approached that intersection at no more than a fast walking pace. What's the approved vehicular cyclist behavior there? Just wait in line with the other vehicles? I have one basic rule that has worked for all the years I've been riding a bike. DON'T GET HIT! Look both ways, look in front and in back, if in doubt get off and walk, or any other action the prevents you from being hit. That sounds fine, but here's the problem: some people have crazy ideas on how best to not get hit. Perhaps the most common misconception is that it's safer to ride facing traffic. But there are others that are similarly ineffective or impractical - for example, we hear from time to time that bicyclists should "pretend you're invisible." There really are details one must learn. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#20
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Boston Cycling - You make the call
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:22 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes: On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:38:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 16:48, wrote: On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:54:13 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2020-07-29 11:58, AMuzi wrote: https://nypost.com/video/can-i-get-a...ly-close-call/ unclear to me. Looks like technically the woman is at fault because she could not have had a left green arrow, just a general green and then one must wait out oncoming traffic. What she did could amount to a hit-and-run. The cyclist was, however, riding recklessly. Blowing past stopped traffic on the right at such high speed is not smart, whether in a lane or in a bike lane. Regardless of vehicle used. I never do that. Here in California I have seen motorcyclists do that while lane-splitting, blasting down a lane divide. I guess most of them don't really need social security, they won't live that long. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I was riding along in the bike lane pretty fast - about 20 mph to get through a light before it changed and the asshole in the left turn lane turned RIGHT and I came within inches of buying it. In another case there is an exit from what is essentially a freeway - the San Mateo bridge that stops at a light in Hayward. My light changed and no one was moving. I was just about to take off and some horses ass coming off of the bridge blew right through that red light at 60 mph or so at least 5 seconds after the light had changed red for him. From now on I'm VERY careful there and do not move until the traffic in my direction moves. I guess those drivers weren't texting after all. I saw several of those during one ride of a mere 47 miles. Since quite a while I do not trust green lights. It's the blessing/curse of bike lanes. They are lanes after all, and legally speaking, the turning car in the video violated the right of way of the bicyclist who was through traffic IN A LANE (damn it, a green lane to boot!). The problem is that the bicyclist was hidden behind the stopped cars, which is exactly the problem with sheltered bike lanes. They create the same sort of chute arrangement, and when you come to an intersection, you better be paying attention and not flying along. If there were no bike lane, passing on the roadway on the right is illegal in most states (not Oregon anymore). Before the new law, I tried a similar collision case and lost. Waaah. More than 50% fault allocated to my client, who was not in a bike lane and just whipping along the right side of a bunch of stopped cars when a car entered the roadway from the right into a hole made by stopped traffic. Whap. Not illegal in Massachusetts to pass stopped cars on the right. Moving cars I'm not so sure about. I don't usually do plaintiffs' PI and took the case as a favor. My experts were a king PDX traffic cop (who was gung-ho about bikes passing on the right because it moved traffic) and, of all people, Mia Birk, queen of infrastructure and Franks arch enema. https://www.amazon.com/Joyride-Pedal.../dp/0615384110 She called me while writing that book. I think I'm in it somewhere, but I'm too cheap to buy it. Shortly after losing my case, they put a bike lane in where the accident occurred, but I didn't get a do-over. They must have libraries in Portland, cheapness is not an explanation. Driving laws are pretty much universal because people moving from state to state for any reason have to all know how to drive correctly. So most states follow the suggestions of the Federal Highway Traffic Safety Commission. |
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