Do bicycles and cars mix?

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:19:23 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Dave Head wrote:

A much better transit system than Indianapolis is Washington, DC.
considerable distance to the platform, got on after about a 10 minute
wait, transferred to another train that was about a 15 minute wait...
Now, the trains run 60 mph at top speed, but they aren't at top speed
very much. They stop... and stop... and stop... Average speed is
pretty low, actually. Then you add the waiting when changing trains.

I was in DC last winter for the National Academy of Sciences
Transportation Research Board meeting. No fewer than *SIX consecutive
times* one evening, a train pulled into a major station, doors opened,
lots of passengers got on, doors closed, doors opened, and an announcement
came on the PA: "This train is now going out of service. All passengers
please exit." At one train every ten minutes, it took me an hour *just to
get on a train*. And this on one of the world's (generally justifiably)
renowned transit systems.

Yeah - a transit system has to be reliable and predictable, too.

As for waiting on transit, _nobody_ likes to wait. On anything. But
waiting on a train is generally done in the weather, no matter if it is
raining, snowing, -20 degrees or 105 degrees. Its done in the rain, and
in the sun. Throw in an occasional mosquito for good measure. Then
there's the exposure to the criminal element,

...and the microbiological element. And the alcoholic element. And the
screaming-baby element. And the gangbanger playing yo-yo-bitches-yo rap at
cochlea-rending volume element. And the gaggle of teenagers whose every
other word is "****" element. And the panhandler element. And the "Is that
**** I smell?" element.

Yes, people want their privacy that only comes with driving a car. My personal
dream is a personal rapid transit that carries cars, preferably at high speed.
Inside cities at not so high speed, or running across the plains at 150 mph,
people would _choose_ it over driving, which is the all important criterion.
If people will choose it every time, then it can make money.

Dave Head

DS

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 02:43:33 GMT, "Pete" wrote:


"Dave Head" wrote

[snip]

All for now. Gotta get on the road.


All this merely points to a poor implementation of non-car transport.

Yep.

It *can* be done. The US public merely lacks the will or desire to do it.

Engineers and business people need to come up with something that people _want_
to ride. That would be something that offers privacy and is faster than a car
door-to-door. Build that, and transit will flourish.

For a variety of reasons. Mainly, I think, because we don't *want* to.

Right - but this is also a business, and "the customer is always right."

Dave Head

Pete

On 09 Aug 2003 17:40:05 -0500, Jordan Bettis wrote:

writes:

Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.


People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?

Home depot dosen't deliver large items? I'd go somewhere that does.

Yes they do, but they do it on Tuesdays an Saturdays. You either have to take
off work to meet the truck on Tuesday, or possibly put off a trip to something
fun on Saturday, plus wait 'til Saturday. Its much more satisfying to have
your 4' X 8' sheets of plywood on the roof of the Jeep the same night, with no
waiting.

Dave Head

Jordan Bettis wrote in message
...
writes:

Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.


People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do
nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?

Home depot dosen't deliver large items? I'd go somewhere that does.

--
Surely you are making a joke, right?

Peter wrote in message
news:aReZa.107275$YN5.73282@sccrnsc01...
Jordan Bettis wrote:

writes:


Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.


People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do
nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?


Home depot dosen't deliver large items? I'd go somewhere that does.

At least in our area they provide delivery services and also offer trucks
for rent.


$20 for 75 minutes. You would have to have a huge order of lumber for
delivery, and where I hear most stuff, they will not deliver at all. Most
trucks also could not get in there.

Dave Head wrote in message
...
On 09 Aug 2003 17:40:05 -0500, Jordan Bettis
wrote:

writes:

Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.


People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do
nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?

Home depot dosen't deliver large items? I'd go somewhere that does.

Yes they do, but they do it on Tuesdays an Saturdays. You either have to
take
off work to meet the truck on Tuesday, or possibly put off a trip to
something
fun on Saturday, plus wait 'til Saturday. Its much more satisfying to
have
your 4' X 8' sheets of plywood on the roof of the Jeep the same night,
with no
waiting.

Dave Head


That was the problem with the old-fashioned urban delivery systems. Women
would put on their white gloves, take the trolley downtown, and then have to
be there on Tuesdays or Saturdays when delivery would take place. It
assumed an upper class lifestyle where women stayed home all day or the maid
took delivery for you.

Plywood on the roof? Dangerous. I put it inside.

Mitch Haley wrote in message
...
wrote:
People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do
nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?


People who post drivel like the above...
Can you really justify a year's worth of truck payments
to have it handy for a couple of trips to the home improvement
store? Makes as much sense as paying $200 a sheet for plywood.
On second thought, you ARE paying $200 a sheet for plywood.
Mitch.

People don't drive a truck only to Home Depot. The F150 is the most
popular vehicle in the nation, and for good reasons. I have to hit home
depot several times a week. And now that home updating is on the schedule,
probaby every day.

Jack May wrote in message
et...

"Tanya Quinn" wrote in message
om...
Problem is people that drive the cars whine too loudly about
taking away some of the space that is now theirs to use for people
that want to get places quickly by taking 50+ single occupancy
vehicles and putting their occupants in one slightly larger vehicle.

How often do 50+ people want to start at one place and go to same place.
The answer is very very seldom. If you are going to pick them up and let
the off along the way then the trip takes about four times as long. Where
time is expensive, that is obviously a non-solution.


Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.

My experience is that a cab tends to run about $1.50 to $2.00 per mile
(including tip) compared to about 35 cents per mile for a car. You
typically have to wait about 30 minutes for a cab to arrive which is about
$18 for a typical income of $75K per year where I live. So the people are
making a wise economic decision using a car and a terrible decision to use
a
cab except for a few circumstances.

Why is there a fixed cost for a car. If you use a car less, it cost less
per year. Since most people these days drive a car until it is worn out,
the cost is mainly a function of mileage (including insurance). There are
some time fixed cost, but a large part is mileage based.

And that's the main problem with automobiles
- while cars give you freedom to go where you want when you want, once
too many people start enjoying the freedom, nobody goes anywhere at
all, the steel boxes just crawl along like little ants.

Crawl along like little ants every where, every time? That is nonsense
for
most places. There are obviously traffic jams, but people still use cars
because they are still faster than transit.

A large part of the congestion is caused by excessive spending on transit
and gross under spending on roads. For example in Silicon Valley the
amount of money to get 1K people out of their cars into transit is running
at about the same as the money it would take to add capacity for an
additional 100K people.

Obviously the more you spend to try to get people out of cars into
transit,
the more congestion you are going to produce.



1% of transit riders get 17% of funds.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:11:47 GMT, wrote:


Dave Head wrote in message
.. .
On 09 Aug 2003 17:40:05 -0500, Jordan Bettis
wrote:

writes:

Nope, but I was just pointing out the economics. People complain that
cabs are too terribly expensive, but they don't consider the fixed
costs of the automobile if they use that automobile extremely
infrequently. If they still prefer the car that's their choice but
they can hardly say its because of money.


People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do
nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?

Home depot dosen't deliver large items? I'd go somewhere that does.

Yes they do, but they do it on Tuesdays an Saturdays. You either have to
take
off work to meet the truck on Tuesday, or possibly put off a trip to
something
fun on Saturday, plus wait 'til Saturday. Its much more satisfying to
have
your 4' X 8' sheets of plywood on the roof of the Jeep the same night,
with no
waiting.

Dave Head


That was the problem with the old-fashioned urban delivery systems. Women
would put on their white gloves, take the trolley downtown, and then have to
be there on Tuesdays or Saturdays when delivery would take place. It
assumed an upper class lifestyle where women stayed home all day or the maid
took delivery for you.

Plywood on the roof? Dangerous. I put it inside.

Not inside a Jeep Cherokee, I think.

Dave Head

wrote:

People who post drivel like this are impractical people who do nothing
around the house. Can you imagine going to Home Depot in a taxi?

Yes. I see people do it all the time.

I guess you are more worried about appearances than actual functionality.
There are people that manage to do without cars. Though, I'd imagine that
it is easier for someone that has never had a car to continue without one
than have someone that had driven since they were 16 to give it up after
years of driving.

Marc
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