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Rolling Resistence



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 27th 19, 10:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Default Rolling Resistence

Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.
  #2  
Old August 28th 19, 05:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 7,314
Default Rolling Resistence

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.


Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of your
various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope and keep track
of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's harder
than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old August 28th 19, 05:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 942
Default Rolling Resistence

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different.. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.


Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of your
various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope and keep track
of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's harder
than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski


Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I do not feel like doing.
  #4  
Old August 28th 19, 05:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,527
Default Rolling Resistence

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 12:18:21 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.


Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of your
various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope and keep track
of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's harder
than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski


Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I do not feel like doing.


Take your bike and put training wheels on it. Take the bike to a long downward trending straight grade. Attach a cord to the handle bar on each side and then attach the cords to the seatpost or frame so that the handlebar can not turn. Allow the bike to start rolling on its own = no pushing it to start it. Time how long it takes to get to a certain point. Repeat within a short time with different tires, tubes and/or pressure in the tires.

Cheers
  #5  
Old August 29th 19, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 7,699
Default Rolling Resistence

On 8/28/2019 12:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 12:18:21 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.

Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of your
various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope and keep track
of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's harder
than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski


Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I do not feel like doing.


Take your bike and put training wheels on it. Take the bike to a long downward trending straight grade. Attach a cord to the handle bar on each side and then attach the cords to the seatpost or frame so that the handlebar can not turn. Allow the bike to start rolling on its own = no pushing it to start it. Time how long it takes to get to a certain point. Repeat within a short time with different tires, tubes and/or pressure in the tires.


You need a representative load on the tires to give any validity to this
test. The easiest way to arrange that load is to have a rider on board.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old August 29th 19, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,527
Default Rolling Resistence

On Thursday, 29 August 2019 15:46:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/28/2019 12:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 12:18:21 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.

Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of your
various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope and keep track
of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's harder
than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski

Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I do not feel like doing.


Take your bike and put training wheels on it. Take the bike to a long downward trending straight grade. Attach a cord to the handle bar on each side and then attach the cords to the seatpost or frame so that the handlebar can not turn. Allow the bike to start rolling on its own = no pushing it to start it. Time how long it takes to get to a certain point. Repeat within a short time with different tires, tubes and/or pressure in the tires.


You need a representative load on the tires to give any validity to this
test. The easiest way to arrange that load is to have a rider on board.


--
- Frank Krygowski


It'd be better to fasten weight to the bicycle because then when you switch tires everything is the same. With a rider a slight difference in position could create a more aero setup t hereby negating any change the tires might make. You want the test to be repeatable as much as possible.

I often wondered too about those old tests, circa 1980s, for aerodynamic components and just how much difference the components made on a bicycle with the rider pedaling.

Cheers
  #7  
Old August 28th 19, 08:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Posts: 1,350
Default Rolling Resistence

On 28/08/2019 17.18, Tom Kunich wrote:

snip

Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and
wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only
practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which
I do not feel like doing.


Nothing available here?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/
  #8  
Old August 28th 19, 10:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bob prohaska
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Posts: 67
Default Rolling Resistence

Tosspot wrote:

Nothing available here?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/


Indeed, quite a lot in regards to available bike tires.

For those wanting more insight into fundamentals, there's also
https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/sa...HS-810-561.pdf

It's oriented towards motor vehicle tires, but the principles are the same.

bob prohaska

  #9  
Old August 29th 19, 04:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 942
Default Rolling Resistence

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 12:01:12 PM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 28/08/2019 17.18, Tom Kunich wrote:

snip

Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and
wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only
practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which
I do not feel like doing.


Nothing available here?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/


I have been using that listing and as you see the Rubino has twice the rolling resistance of the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. But can you believe that you would feel that? 7 watts when riding along easily you only use about 100 watts of power and the slower you ride the less power the tire absorbs.

But the EFFECTS I saw make this doubling of rolling resistance appear to be important. When I would stop pedaling the bike would slow rapidly. So it required enough strength to continue pedaling for the entire ride.

Yet the Michelin Pro4 shows about the same rolling resistance as the Rubino and it would not do this. If you stopped pedaling you couldn't detect the rather rapid slowing. I'll ride the Rubino again to see.
  #10  
Old August 29th 19, 04:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,527
Default Rolling Resistence

On Thursday, 29 August 2019 11:15:27 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 12:01:12 PM UTC-7, Tosspot wrote:
On 28/08/2019 17.18, Tom Kunich wrote:

snip

Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and
wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only
practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which
I do not feel like doing.


Nothing available here?

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/


I have been using that listing and as you see the Rubino has twice the rolling resistance of the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires. But can you believe that you would feel that? 7 watts when riding along easily you only use about 100 watts of power and the slower you ride the less power the tire absorbs.

But the EFFECTS I saw make this doubling of rolling resistance appear to be important. When I would stop pedaling the bike would slow rapidly. So it required enough strength to continue pedaling for the entire ride.

Yet the Michelin Pro4 shows about the same rolling resistance as the Rubino and it would not do this. If you stopped pedaling you couldn't detect the rather rapid slowing. I'll ride the Rubino again to see.


I don't think that ANY rolling-resistance test that's performed with the tire on a steel drum is going to be all that accurate or applicable to the real world of bicycle riding. Heck, even different types/coarseness of asphalt surfaces can make a real difference in how a tire feels/behaves. I guess that the best a steel drum rolling resistance test does is tell us how a tire MIGHT perform on a REALLY SMOOTH road.

Cheers
 




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