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6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 16th 19, 11:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
patrick[_2_]
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Posts: 6
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube. thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the patches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild - coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat
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  #2  
Old September 17th 19, 04:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,333
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

patrick wrote:
:Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
:with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
:down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
:and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
:thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
:with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
:themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
:intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
:agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
:buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
:small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
:ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
:coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat

The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
(dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
whcih get hot.


--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker
  #3  
Old September 17th 19, 04:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 7,700
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

On 9/16/2019 11:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
patrick wrote:
:Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
:with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
:down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
:and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
:thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
:with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
:themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
:intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
:agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
:buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
:small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
:ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
:coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat

The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
(dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
whcih get hot.


That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
principle with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
particularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
use for it.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old September 17th 19, 05:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,333
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 9/16/2019 11:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: patrick wrote:
: :Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
: :with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
: :down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
: :and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
: :thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
: :with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
: :themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
: :intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
: atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
: :agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
: :buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
: :small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
: :ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
: :coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat
:
: The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
: rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
: thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
: ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
: normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
: thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
: instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
: as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
: says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
: (dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
: they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
: whcih get hot.

:That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
:long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
:are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
:basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
:use for it.

there are times I wish I had a box of those:
https://imgur.com/gallery/wKGLIvd
https://imgur.com/a/MhRgmcA


--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker
  #5  
Old September 17th 19, 06:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:21:10 AM UTC-5, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 9/16/2019 11:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: patrick wrote:
: :Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
: :with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
: :down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
: :and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
: :thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
: :with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
: :themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
: :intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
: atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
: :agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
: :buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
: :small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
: :ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
: :coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat
:
: The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
: rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
: thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
: ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
: normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
: thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
: instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
: as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
: says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
: (dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
: they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
: whcih get hot.

:That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
:long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
:are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
:basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
:use for it.

there are times I wish I had a box of those:
https://imgur.com/gallery/wKGLIvd
https://imgur.com/a/MhRgmcA


--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker


When the hole is that big, you need to throw it away.

I thought I was cheap.

:-)

Andy
  #6  
Old September 17th 19, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,333
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

AK wrote:
:On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:21:10 AM UTC-5, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 9/16/2019 11:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: : patrick wrote:
: : :Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
: : :with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
: : :down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
: : :and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
: : :thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
: : :with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
: : :themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
: : :intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
: : atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
: : :agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
: : :buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
: : :small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
: : :ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
: : :coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat
: :
: : The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
: : rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
: : thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
: : ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
: : normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
: : thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
: : instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
: : as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
: : says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
: : (dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
: : they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
: : whcih get hot.
:
: :That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
: rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
: articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
: :long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
: :are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
: :basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
: :use for it.
:
: there are times I wish I had a box of those:
: https://imgur.com/gallery/wKGLIvd
: https://imgur.com/a/MhRgmcA
:

:When the hole is that big, you need to throw it away.

Why? Both those tubes are still in service, and both hold air.

The little one was the tube a tricycle. It's a weird size, and has a
hooked valve stem. It came out of the box like that; fixing it let my
daughter ride her new trike on her birthday, instead of sometime later
when a replacement tube could be found. She rides a real bike now, so
the trike is in the attic, but the tire had air in it when I put it
away.

The bike tire one was done almost five years ago, and has acquired a
couple more patches, in different spots. I don't remember if it's in the
bike or if it's the spare at the moment. The flat was caused by a
brake pad rubbing the tire.

I have patched holes I could put my entire body through -- those were
on earthmoving machines, not bikes, but still. On tubes like that,
you can cut out and replace the valve stems when they fail, using
something like

https://gemplers.com/collections/wor...r-tr-218a-220a


:I thought I was cheap.




--
sig 91
  #7  
Old September 17th 19, 08:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,529
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 12:31:13 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:


:That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
:long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
:are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
:basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
:use for it.


When the hole is that big, you need to throw it away.

I thought I was cheap.

:-)

Andy


The big bicycle tube patches are useful when you happen to get two small holes side by side and can only use one patch to cover both small holes. Think of a pinch flat where you slam the tire into the edge of a pothole. And the pavement edge compresses the tube and tire against the rim edges. This can result in two small holes about an inch apart. One big long oval patch might work to repair both holes at once.
  #8  
Old September 17th 19, 10:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 942
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-7, AK wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 11:21:10 AM UTC-5, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 9/16/2019 11:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: patrick wrote:
: :Just got back to riding after 6 months off and had a couple of problems
: :with patches. Using the usual abrade/clean - alky or acetone then lay
: :down the glue, wait to dry , apply patch and wait a bit. Tried several
: :and had the patch peel away under a bit of stretching of the tube.
: :thought there might be something amiss with the adhesive and the result
: :with the different brand of valcanising fluid was the same. The patches
: :themselves were not sticking to the alum base sheet and the plastic was
: :intact on the peel way.They felt as flexible as new so I don't think the
: atches themselves were bad but I can't speak to the cold vulcanzing
: :agent that's supposed to be activated by the fluid in the tube Going to
: :buy a couple patch kits before I commit to another couple boxes of rema
: :small/large patches. Again 6-8 yr old patches out of the box (stored at
: :ambient temps SoCal- hottish summers but the restf the yr pretty mild -
: :coastal). Thoughts?? Thanks Pat
:
: The inner (tube facing) surface of a patch consists unvulcanized
: rubber and a vulcanizing ultra-acclerator (usually a zinc
: thiocarbamate, but the details are propertietary, of course). The
: ultra-accelerator is supposed to be inactive, until it's activate. In
: normal usage, the vulcanizing fluid contains an activator (usually a
: thiazole), which activates the ultra-accellerator, and voilla!,
: instantly vulcanized repair. Heat in storage can set the patches off,
: as can exposure to various chemicals. The box of patches I've got
: says I bought them in 2011. They, and the bottle of vulcanizing fluid
: (dated 2013) worked fine when I used them a few weeks ago. But
: they've been stored either at my office or my baseement, neither of
: whcih get hot.

:That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
:long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
:are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
:basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
:use for it.

there are times I wish I had a box of those:
https://imgur.com/gallery/wKGLIvd
https://imgur.com/a/MhRgmcA


--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker


When the hole is that big, you need to throw it away.

I thought I was cheap.

:-)

Andy


You use those super-large patches for patching the tire so that you can get home without blowing your last tube through a cut in the tire.
  #9  
Old September 18th 19, 03:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,700
Default 6-8 yr old rema tiptop patches- too old?

On 9/17/2019 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 12:31:13 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:


:That's a _lot_ more chemistry than I've ever understood, but I agree in
rinciple with David. I have patches that qualify as ancient -
articularly, the oval Rema Tip-Top ones that are almost two inches
:long. Whenever I finally use up all the round patches in a box, there
:are a couple of those left over. They sit around for years in my
:basement drawer, but I've never had one fail when I've finally found a
:use for it.


When the hole is that big, you need to throw it away.

I thought I was cheap.

:-)

Andy


The big bicycle tube patches are useful when you happen to get two small holes side by side and can only use one patch to cover both small holes. Think of a pinch flat where you slam the tire into the edge of a pothole. And the pavement edge compresses the tube and tire against the rim edges. This can result in two small holes about an inch apart. One big long oval patch might work to repair both holes at once.


Agreed, that's what I have used them for. But it's been a rare event.

The other use (just yesterday!) was a super-slow leak in the rear tire
of my around-town three speed. It required pumping only every five or
six days. I finally got around to fixing it last night. When I blew the
tube up to about 4" diameter and held it under water, an existing patch
was seeping a 1mm bubble every five seconds or so. (This is very
unusual. I almost never have a patch fail.)

I laid one of the long patches over the old patch, covering the edge
where the seep occurred. I'll know in a week whether that was successful.


--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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