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If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 19th 05, 11:01 AM
Maggie
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in Brookdale
Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a cyclist couple
who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which way to move.
Adding to that, he came up behind me on one side and his wife or GF
came up from behind on the other side. Adding to all that confusion, I
of course, moved the wrong way.

Since then, I try to walk on the track instead of the path but the
husband likes the path better. More scenery.

Well yesterday we were walking and talking when we hear a small childs
voice yell in a very loud booming voice from a far distance. "BICYCLE
COMING THROUGH. BICYCLE COMING THROUGH". My husband and I had time to
turn around and both of us moved to let him go between us...and as he
went through he said..."TWO MORE BICYCLES COMING THROUGH"...the next
kid yelled..."ONE MORE BICYCLE COMING THROUGH"....and then when they
all past us...they yelled "THANK YOU". It was the cutest thing. They
must have been about 8 or 9 years old, wearing helmets, and very police
riders.
I guess children know what to shout when riding their bikes more than
the adults in the park who scream...ON YOU LEFT...or ON YOUR
RIGHT....I've watched more confusion happen when cyclists yell that.
If cyclists decide to ride on a path where people are walking, talking,
walking dogs, running, and strolling....I think they should think like
those children. AND JUST YELL IT LIKE IT IS.

Just shout....."BICYCLE COMING THROUGH"...with plenty of time for
walkers, strollers, etc to move. I love kids. They are damn smart.
Maggie.

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  #2  
Old September 19th 05, 12:11 PM
Joe Canuck
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

Maggie wrote:
Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in Brookdale
Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a cyclist couple
who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which way to move.
Adding to that, he came up behind me on one side and his wife or GF
came up from behind on the other side. Adding to all that confusion, I
of course, moved the wrong way.

Since then, I try to walk on the track instead of the path but the
husband likes the path better. More scenery.

Well yesterday we were walking and talking when we hear a small childs
voice yell in a very loud booming voice from a far distance. "BICYCLE
COMING THROUGH. BICYCLE COMING THROUGH". My husband and I had time to
turn around and both of us moved to let him go between us...and as he
went through he said..."TWO MORE BICYCLES COMING THROUGH"...the next
kid yelled..."ONE MORE BICYCLE COMING THROUGH"....and then when they
all past us...they yelled "THANK YOU". It was the cutest thing. They
must have been about 8 or 9 years old, wearing helmets, and very police
riders.
I guess children know what to shout when riding their bikes more than
the adults in the park who scream...ON YOU LEFT...or ON YOUR
RIGHT....I've watched more confusion happen when cyclists yell that.
If cyclists decide to ride on a path where people are walking, talking,
walking dogs, running, and strolling....I think they should think like
those children. AND JUST YELL IT LIKE IT IS.

Just shout....."BICYCLE COMING THROUGH"...with plenty of time for
walkers, strollers, etc to move. I love kids. They are damn smart.
Maggie.


If everyone follows the standard rules there is no need for confusion.
In other words if everyone follows the standard rules of traffic flow we
all know they will be passing on the left and that the pedestrians have
left enough room for this to take place.

The problem happens when folks on the pathways, cyclists or pedestrians,
don't follow these very basic rules... such as pedestrians taking up
the whole width of the path walking side-by-each... such as pedestrians
walking on the wrong side... such as cyclists passing on the wrong
side... such as cyclists riding side-by-side and consuming more than
their fair share of the path... pedestrians stopping to have a
conversation in the middle of the path... etc, etc.

I don't understand why this seems to be rocket science for some, as the
rules are very simple. Yet, almost everytime I'm out on the bike I come
across folks not following them. When it isn't busy there usually isn't
a problem, however when the pathways are busy (such as on a weekend
afternoon) it can be chaotic.
  #3  
Old September 19th 05, 12:43 PM
Gooserider
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Posts: n/a
Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes


"Maggie" wrote in message
ups.com...
Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in Brookdale
Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a cyclist couple
who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which way to move.

You're not supposed to move, then, are you? "ON YOUR LEFT" is a warning to
let slower traffic know you're there. Just hold your line and the faster
cyclist will pass you. Am I wrong?


  #4  
Old September 19th 05, 02:21 PM
Pat
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

:
: "Maggie" wrote in message
:: Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in Brookdale
: Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a cyclist couple
: who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which way to move.


: You're not supposed to move, then, are you? "ON YOUR LEFT" is a warning to
: let slower traffic know you're there. Just hold your line and the faster
: cyclist will pass you. Am I wrong?
:
:
It's all about blame, doncha know. She is still trying to blame someone
else.



  #5  
Old September 19th 05, 03:23 PM
Roger Zoul
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Posts: n/a
Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

Maggie wrote:
: Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in
: Brookdale Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a
: cyclist couple who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which
: way to move.

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. When someone says "On your left" they are
essentially telling you that they are on your left and not to move there.
That tells you to watch your movements to the left, not to move. Think
about it...if they are passing you on the left, then they already have a
path over which to travel and they are trying to let you know not to get in
that path...think more about it...they cannot demand that you move...so if
you are actually blocking their path, they need to stop or they will crash
into you. I, for one, would certainly not choose to run into any object on
my bike. But if someone perhaps isn't aware of my rapid approach, I would
want to let them know I'm coming so they can avoid moving into my path.

Adding to that, he came up behind me on one side and
: his wife or GF came up from behind on the other side. Adding to all
: that confusion, I of course, moved the wrong way.
:
: Since then, I try to walk on the track instead of the path but the
: husband likes the path better. More scenery.
:
: Well yesterday we were walking and talking when we hear a small
: childs voice yell in a very loud booming voice from a far distance.
: "BICYCLE COMING THROUGH. BICYCLE COMING THROUGH".

That tells you nothing about the path the kids are taking as they pass
you...

My husband and I
: had time to turn around and both of us moved to let him go between
: us...and as he went through he said..."TWO MORE BICYCLES COMING
: THROUGH"...the next kid yelled..."ONE MORE BICYCLE COMING
: THROUGH"....and then when they all past us...they yelled "THANK
: YOU".

Just be happy that you had time to respond...otherwise, you'd have gotten
hit.


It was the cutest thing. They must have been about 8 or 9
: years old, wearing helmets, and very police riders.
: I guess children know what to shout when riding their bikes more than
: the adults in the park who scream...ON YOU LEFT...or ON YOUR
: RIGHT....I've watched more confusion happen when cyclists yell that.
: If cyclists decide to ride on a path where people are walking,
: talking, walking dogs, running, and strolling....I think they should
: think like those children. AND JUST YELL IT LIKE IT IS.
:
: Just shout....."BICYCLE COMING THROUGH"...with plenty of time for
: walkers, strollers, etc to move. I love kids. They are damn smart.
: Maggie.

You're really not learning much here, Mags. Must be a sign of getting old.


  #6  
Old September 19th 05, 06:11 PM
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

: Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in
: Brookdale Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a
: cyclist couple who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea which
: way to move.

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. When someone says "On your left" they are
essentially telling you that they are on your left and not to move there.
That tells you to watch your movements to the left, not to move. Think
about it...if they are passing you on the left, then they already have a
path over which to travel and they are trying to let you know not to get
in that path...think more about it...they cannot demand that you move...so
if you are actually blocking their path, they need to stop or they will
crash into you. I, for one, would certainly not choose to run into any
object on my bike. But if someone perhaps isn't aware of my rapid
approach, I would want to let them know I'm coming so they can avoid
moving into my path.


I 'm with Maggie on this one. The "on your left" stuff just doesn't work
with a *lot* of people, yet we continue to come up with reasons why it's
appropriate. Sorry, but people get easily confused when something's coming
up from behind them, and in the auto world (which they're used to), you
don't have a similar epithet or appropriate response.

The problem is the "left" part of it. Somehow it implies that *you* (the
rider in front) are supposed to do something... but the reality is that
you're supposed to do absolutely nothing except hold your present line.

When I'm overtaking other cyclists, and note that they're riding in a
predictable fashion, I say nothing. Actually, that's not quite true; if
there's an opportunity to make myself known audibly, as in casual chat with
other cyclists, I do so. Why? Because it's not intimidating, and lets
someone know you're there. And then I just ride past (on the left, of
course) as if everyone's doing the right thing (which they are). Just as
would happen while driving.

On the other hand, saying "On your left" sounds more like a command to get
out of the way, perhaps the bicycle equivalent to flashing your lights at
somebody.

And what if the cyclists you're trying to pass are riding all over the
place? My guess is that it's even more difficult to instill order into such
situations than to simply find a way to give them a wide berth.

: Well yesterday we were walking and talking when we hear a small
: childs voice yell in a very loud booming voice from a far distance.
: "BICYCLE COMING THROUGH. BICYCLE COMING THROUGH".


I like it, but think it's something that works for innocent kids but for
adults would tell people that hey, I'm on a bike, I'm superior, get the heck
out of my way! Which of course is true. If I were putting a lot of time in
riding on multi-use bikepaths, I'd invest in a ding-ding bell very quickly.
It's not rude, and people naturally move to the side.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #7  
Old September 19th 05, 06:39 PM
wafflycat
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Posts: n/a
Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes


"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
. ..


I like it, but think it's something that works for innocent kids but for
adults would tell people that hey, I'm on a bike, I'm superior, get the
heck out of my way! Which of course is true. If I were putting a lot of
time in riding on multi-use bikepaths, I'd invest in a ding-ding bell very
quickly. It's not rude, and people naturally move to the side.


Where I am, there's a lot of narrow country lanes, so I come across
pedestrians and horse riders quite often. I find a friendly "Cyclist
approaching behind you" in good time, works well, especially if a "thank
you" with a smile follows as I cycle past. I find people simply do not hear
a bell - I have one on the 'bent - the sound of my voice is much more
effective. Of course, my father was a regimental seargeant-major and my
mother could outshout him, so perhaps it's in the genes ;-)

Cheers, helen s

  #8  
Old September 19th 05, 07:02 PM
Roger Zoul
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
: : Yesterday my husband and I were walking the multi-use path in
: : Brookdale Park. This is the path where I was knocked over by a
: : cyclist couple who shouted "ON THE LEFT" because I had no idea
: : which way to move.
:
: Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. When someone says "On your left" they are
: essentially telling you that they are on your left and not to move
: there. That tells you to watch your movements to the left, not to
: move. Think about it...if they are passing you on the left, then
: they already have a path over which to travel and they are trying
: to let you know not to get in that path...think more about
: it...they cannot demand that you move...so if you are actually
: blocking their path, they need to stop or they will crash into you.
: I, for one, would certainly not choose to run into any object on my
: bike. But if someone perhaps isn't aware of my rapid approach, I
: would want to let them know I'm coming so they can avoid moving
: into my path.
:
: I 'm with Maggie on this one. The "on your left" stuff just doesn't
: work with a *lot* of people, yet we continue to come up with reasons
: why it's appropriate. Sorry, but people get easily confused when
: something's coming up from behind them, and in the auto world (which
: they're used to), you don't have a similar epithet or appropriate
: response.

Really? In the auto world you have rules that people pass you on the left.
You have signal lights that tell when people are about the change lanes, and
you have side-view and rear-view mirrors. This cycling notion is patterned
after it, but modified as people who walk around don't have side and rear
view mirrors. You saying "on your left" is like turning on your car's
left-turn blinker. It's information.

:
: The problem is the "left" part of it. Somehow it implies that *you*
: (the rider in front) are supposed to do something... but the reality
: is that you're supposed to do absolutely nothing except hold your
: present line.

How does saying "on your left" imply that? It's short for "I'm on your
left" and all you need to understand is that someone is approaching you "on
your left". It's very common sense. If you choose to overthink things....

:
: When I'm overtaking other cyclists, and note that they're riding in a
: predictable fashion, I say nothing. Actually, that's not quite true;
: if there's an opportunity to make myself known audibly, as in casual
: chat with other cyclists, I do so. Why? Because it's not
: intimidating, and lets someone know you're there. And then I just
: ride past (on the left, of course) as if everyone's doing the right
: thing (which they are). Just as would happen while driving.

That's not exactly what should happen when driving...the person ahead of you
will see your car approaching, maybe see your left turn signal, and be aware
that you're passing (assuming two-lane roads) and thus not choose to pass at
the same time.

Also, saying "on your left" need not be intimidating....you can certainly
make it so, but there is a thing called "tone" that can either be
off-putting or friendly...

:
: On the other hand, saying "On your left" sounds more like a command
: to get out of the way, perhaps the bicycle equivalent to flashing
: your lights at somebody.

Only if you choose to look at it that way...if the notion is to share a
multi-use passage way, then you take it as information...

:
: And what if the cyclists you're trying to pass are riding all over
: the place? My guess is that it's even more difficult to instill
: order into such situations than to simply find a way to give them a
: wide berth.

If you're trying to pass someone who is all of the place, then you're stupid
for trying to ride passed. It is better to slow down, stay behind and let
them know you're there before trying to ride ahead.

:
: : Well yesterday we were walking and talking when we hear a small
: : childs voice yell in a very loud booming voice from a far
: : distance. "BICYCLE COMING THROUGH. BICYCLE COMING THROUGH".
:
: I like it, but think it's something that works for innocent kids

Seriously, now....kids on bike are innocent but adults aren't? They have to
share the facility just as anyone else.

but
: for adults would tell people that hey, I'm on a bike, I'm superior,
: get the heck out of my way! Which of course is true. If I were
: putting a lot of time in riding on multi-use bikepaths,

It should not be "get out of my way" but "watch out, there's a fast moving
bike here".

I'd invest
: in a ding-ding bell very quickly. It's not rude, and people
: naturally move to the side.

That's a good idea....but asking people to move can always be considered
rude depending on the situation.


  #9  
Old September 19th 05, 07:15 PM
catzz66
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:


I 'm with Maggie on this one. The "on your left" stuff just doesn't work
with a *lot* of people, yet we continue to come up with reasons why it's
appropriate. Sorry, but people get easily confused when something's coming
up from behind them, and in the auto world (which they're used to), you
don't have a similar epithet or appropriate response.



People ought to be able to "get it," but they often don't. I just say
"passing on your left." So far, I have not run over anyone or had to
stop and explain it yet.

Better still, I don't ride on multiple use paths unless I have to.
There are a lot of folks out there who just don't pay attention when
they are out there.
  #10  
Old September 19th 05, 07:18 PM
Dave Vandervies
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Default If Adults on bikes could be as simple as kids on bikes

In article ,
Joe Canuck wrote:

If everyone follows the standard rules there is no need for confusion.


The problem with this is, the people most in need of understanding this
are the least likely to realize the need for it.

In other words if everyone follows the standard rules of traffic flow we
all know they will be passing on the left and that the pedestrians have
left enough room for this to take place.


Yep. Simple enough to write it on your hands if you can't memorize it:
-Stay to your right
UNLESS:
-you're passing somebody going the same direction as you, then pass on
your left.
-you're walking a dog, then if the dog wants to go to the left side go
with it so the leash doesn't cross the path.

For the truly thick, it might also need an explanation that if two
people going in opposite directions both stay to their right, they'll
be on the other's left, and both will be happy, and also an explanation
that if you see somebody with a dog on the "wrong" side you should go
around on the side that's clear, because it's easier than explaining
the simple right-side rule to the dog.



[re-ordered slightly]
The problem happens when folks on the pathways, cyclists or pedestrians,
don't follow these very basic rules... such as pedestrians taking up
the whole width of the path walking side-by-each...
such as cyclists riding side-by-side and consuming more than
their fair share of the path... pedestrians stopping to have a
conversation in the middle of the path... etc, etc.


In practice, these are only problems when you're meeting somebody; wide
groups are perfectly OK if they're paying attention to what's going
on around them and go single-file to make room for people to pass.
An additional guideline makes this easier to work with:

-The bell on a bike means "I'm coming up behind you, don't panic".
It DOES NOT mean "Get out of my way, you idiot".

(Even if the person I'm passing is positioned appropriately, I'll
still ring the bell so they know I'm there, though they usually get a
shorter/quieter ring than people or groups whose appropriate response
involves actually doing something.)


such as pedestrians
walking on the wrong side... such as cyclists passing on the wrong
side...


One thing I've noticed a lot (and that always confuses me) is that most
pedestrians who walk on the wrong side will move over as soon as they
see somebody coming in the opposite direction, so they *know* the rules
for meeting other path traffic, they just don't apply them until they
actually meet somebody else.

Of course, there's always the ones who think that rules like that are
for Other People...


I don't understand why this seems to be rocket science for some, as the
rules are very simple. Yet, almost everytime I'm out on the bike I come
across folks not following them. When it isn't busy there usually isn't
a problem, however when the pathways are busy (such as on a weekend
afternoon) it can be chaotic.


The problem is compounded by the fact that most people are so used to
sharing the path with people who just make it up as they go along that
they have no idea how to respond to somebody who actually follows a
consistent set of rules.

I've taken up the habit of being completely anal about passing on the
correct side. More than once I've had people move over to the left
when I'm approaching and had to go off the path to get around them; I'm
still entertaining the (probably hopelessly mistaken) hope that sooner
or later people will realize that being predictable makes everybody's
life a lot easier.


dave
(gah, another people-are-stupid rant... you'd think I'd've gotten it
out of my system by now.)

--
Dave Vandervies
[P]enguins are from Antarctica, which is beyond mere coolness; it's actually
*cold* down there. --Anthony de Boer in the scary devil
Now watch those other guys adopt liquid helium as their mascot. \monastery
 




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