Inside a Chainglider after 3500km with zero chain maintenance

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes (which
you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or more with
wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft goes up
tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub in
the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive derailleurs,
would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The not so
smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.

Andre Jute

On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue. The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because, like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 9:02:05 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 7:34:09 PM UTC+1, wrote:
Rollo's are generally not used by riders doahn ride

Holy ****, the conference quarter-wit gets something right, though involuntarily by illitterate double negative when his actual intention was dumb malice.

Read that again: "Rollo's are generally not used by riders doahn ride". Precisely! Rohloffs are generally used by riders who ride a lot, just as poor Gene Daniels manages to say -- despite himself!

I'm so happy to be able to agree with you this once, Daniels. Congratulations on getting something right, even accidentally by illiteracy.

Andre Jute
Laughter is good for you

icy Jutee is reading my material

dig pit

cover with sticks

wait for pig

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 9:28:13 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 1:52:20 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Jute

you are an ugly pig and a barbarian vanity press author

According to Gene Daniels, the group quarterwit, Secker & Warburg, Harper, Bantam, W W Norton, St Martin's, Warner Books, Sphere, Rotovision of Switzerland, Batsford, David & Charles, etc, etc, most of the world's top publishers, who all published my books, are all "vanity publishers". And my Swedish, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, many Spanish, Japanese, Greek, etc, etc, publishers in translation, all "vanity presses", huh?

Yeah? You're wanking, Daniels.

Add another subject of which the poor ****wit Daniels know absolutely nothing. That completes an entire Dewey classification of which Gene Daniels is ignorant. Mind you, to be fair, this clown Daniels probably thinks Dewey was a "vanity publisher".

the info sez FIBER COGS...the rebuild video sez FIBER COGS.

MAN TAKES HIS APRAT AND SEZ FIBER COGS

Well, show it to us, sonny; we promise not to laugh at the gullible hick from the sticks.

Andre Jute
How difficult could it be to stick to what you know? The rest of us manage just fine.

you pay they print

J if real I dunno how you handle it. Just too much dirt/mile

Rolloff MTB ? never thought of that...

https://www.google.com/#q=rohloff+mtb

halfway down page rembered the Dutchman's electronic shifter mtb....according to the stiffening old gas well owner, electronic speed brining his deteriorating skills back into ride focus ahead

answering my first and always Rollo thoughts abt

WHAT GEAR ?

HOW'S THIS WORK ON mtb ?

https://www.google.com/#tbm=shop&q=R...2215507 52000

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:18:38 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:14:03 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 5:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 8:36:48 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:

On my road bike it's more like 150mi [per application of White
Lightning Epic lube], depending on how many of those miles are off
pavement.

If that's all you get, you may as well work with the clean white wax.
I used to get 150 tarmac miles out of a lube.

Rollo's have fiber cogs. How spend that much for fiber cogs in
the sweet spot is beyond me except consider Rollo's are generally
not used by riders doahn ride

INCREDULOUS


Rohloff has fiber cogs? Seriously?

This poor jerk Danilels sees a post, makes a fast hit on Google with
an incompent search term, then posts whatever it says in the first
link just to post something. Then he postures as an expert.

You can get three kinds of cogs on a Rohloff hub: 1. Rohloff's own
long-lasting and reasonably priced reversible cogs. Most people use
these. 2. Special tooth count cogs. Rohloff for instance licensed the
English touring bike make Thorn to make a tooth count they don't make
themselves; it's no longer available, presumably because not enough
buyers wanted it. (The licensing has to do with the torque permitted
on the hub, which is a function of the chainring and sprocket tooth
ratio. For instance, I use 38x16 with a factory cog, which is already
a stump puller even on 700C wheels, but Rohloff permits even lower
for real heavy tourers who want to climb vertical hills. ) 3. Gates
Belt Drive. The belt is carbon fibre, the cogs are steel. Again, a
special license from Rohloff is required for the installation.


That licensing seems like a silly business.

I know. But if you break the Rohloff requirements, they may not give you the benefit of the doubt after your warranty expires. This voluntary continuation of the warranty is very valuable on an item this expensive.

That hub has a good reputation, with people clocking north of 50k
miles on the same hub.

These days it's north of a lot more than 50K. But a downhiller like
you shouldn't make his judgement on what tourers do, but on what the
mudpluggers achieve: none of them have ever wrecked a Rohloff box
terminally. Rohloff installations are headed for 200,000 and there
isn't even one that has been terminated.


Oh there are. Example:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-141.html

And when that stuff happens with a $1500 product I'd like it to be
covered by a truly honored lifetime warranty. Like on a pricey kitchen
faucet here where they sent us a new one for free.

That's not a destroyed hub. You send it to Rohloff and they fit the gubbins to a new shell. The only question is who pays for. In the normal course of events, regardless of the age of the hub, Rohloff does not charge users who change the oil in their hubs regularly.

In any event, you can now get 36 hole Rohloff hubs, and a wrecker like you should!

Andre Jute

That is a destroyed hub and it's clear abuse to use a 32 hole rear hub on a loaded tandem bicycle where 48 spokes are usually the recommended number. If Rolhof honours any warranty in that case then more power to their customer relations but the fact remains tthat the failure was cdaused by abuse of the hub.

Cheers

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:36:03 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 9:28:13 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 1:52:20 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Jute

you are an ugly pig and a barbarian vanity press author

According to Gene Daniels, the group quarterwit, Secker & Warburg, Harper, Bantam, W W Norton, St Martin's, Warner Books, Sphere, Rotovision of Switzerland, Batsford, David & Charles, etc, etc, most of the world's top publishers, who all published my books, are all "vanity publishers". And my Swedish, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, many Spanish, Japanese, Greek, etc, etc, publishers in translation, all "vanity presses", huh?

Yeah? You're wanking, Daniels.

Add another subject of which the poor ****wit Daniels know absolutely nothing. That completes an entire Dewey classification of which Gene Daniels is ignorant. Mind you, to be fair, this clown Daniels probably thinks Dewey was a "vanity publisher".

the info sez FIBER COGS...the rebuild video sez FIBER COGS.

MAN TAKES HIS APRAT AND SEZ FIBER COGS

Well, show it to us, sonny; we promise not to laugh at the gullible hick from the sticks.

Andre Jute
How difficult could it be to stick to what you know? The rest of us manage just fine.

you pay they print

You wish. If it were so, anyone could be a writer, even illiterates like you.

You can lead an illiterate to the fountain of syntax but you can't make him drink of it.

LOL.

Andre Jute

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:51:21 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:18:38 AM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:14:03 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 5:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

These days it's north of a lot more than 50K. But a downhiller like
you shouldn't make his judgement on what tourers do, but on what the
mudpluggers achieve: none of them have ever wrecked a Rohloff box
terminally. Rohloff installations are headed for 200,000 and there
isn't even one that has been terminated.


Oh there are. Example:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-141.html

And when that stuff happens with a $1500 product I'd like it to be
covered by a truly honored lifetime warranty. Like on a pricey kitchen
faucet here where they sent us a new one for free.

That's not a destroyed hub. You send it to Rohloff and they fit the gubbins to a new shell. The only question is who pays for. In the normal course of events, regardless of the age of the hub, Rohloff does not charge users who change the oil in their hubs regularly.

In any event, you can now get 36 hole Rohloff hubs, and a wrecker like you should!

Andre Jute

That is a destroyed hub and it's clear abuse to use a 32 hole rear hub on a loaded tandem bicycle where 48 spokes are usually the recommended number.. If Rolhof honours any warranty in that case then more power to their customer relations but the fact remains tthat the failure was cdaused by abuse of the hub.

Cheers

Okay, a hub damaged by bike builder or cyclist abuse. My point is that it isn't destroyed until it can't be rebuilt, or until you can't find anyone who wants to rebuild it (the case with my Shimano internal gear hubs). Be interesting to know if Rohloff fixed this one free of charge. Maybe, if it is on that page, the guy knew he was in the wrong and just didn't send it to them.

There was a time, vaguely in memory, when Rohloff's were forbidden in tandems. Some people used them in tandems all the same, unsuccessfully if they were stupid, successfully if they possessed and applied engineering smarts, as Chalo did by redrilling the hub to 48 holes. (That's Chalo's hub on the same page, with the scheme he worked out and had Isaacs drill for him.) SJS in England had an over-ring to strengthen the flange. Maybe other schemes as well; I wasn't overly interested as I'm not a tandemist. I also vaguely remember in that same distant time one or two Rohloffs with cracked rims in what was said to be normal (i.e. heavily loaded, harsh) service, that were replaced by Rohloff free of charge because the owners had done nothing wrong.

But none of that is relevant today. I haven't heard of a cracked flange in a very long time.

Later hubs arrived with stronger flanges that were permitted in tandems. Problem solved, long since.

I take the view that if a bruiser like me can't kill a Rolloff, it's good German machinery! I even have hope for a *real* wrecker like Joerg..

Andre Jute

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:30:22 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue. The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because, like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

We already have four "standards" in e-bike and pedelec motor fitments, the first three fitting standard traditional frames:
1. Around a standard front axle.
2. Around a standard rear axle, with a cog or a cluster of cogs.
3. Centrally, mounted through a standard bottom bracket shell, as in the 8FUN motor sold by BMS and everyone else as an aftermarket fitment.
4. Bosch/Panasonic, central, requiring a custom frame, but so many made that effectively this is a already a common, semi-standard frame. The motors, intended for OEM users, are very expensive at retail, so there could be a burgeoning stolen market once replacements become necessary.

There are some other mounting patterns that require brackets to be welded or brazed onto frames, or even custom frames, but none of them has taken off..

Makes you wonder if Bosch and Panasonic had lack of interchangeability in mind as an anti-theft measure, and got overtaken by success.

Andre Jute

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:46:34 PM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 11:30:22 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 1:39 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:26:09 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-08 8:23 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 3:03:34 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-07 4:54 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 5:12:28 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-04-06 6:34 PM, James wrote:
On 05/04/15 11:23, Andre Jute wrote:

If the Rohloff just wouldn't be so expensive. With two bikes
(which you need out here) that would easily set you back $4k or
more with wheel re-build and all. And the risk of bike theft
goes up tenfold.

You reckon thieves know a Rohloff hub? I woulda thought a big hub
in the rear wheel without any shiny, clearly expensive
derailleurs, would be a deterrent. No thief wants to steal orphan
equipment.


They aren't that dumb, they know which bikes are worth money. The
not so smart ones would think it's an E-bike with a hub motor.

Yeah, something to think about. The (front) electric motor I
recommend for having the best torque curve and being finished to
European expectations of engineering punctilio, the 8FUN QSWXK, is
just about the same size and appearance as a Rohloff hub. The rear
version has the same appearance, only a longer axle to take the
cluster.

We're entering a time when an electric bike, far from being an
impediment to a quick sale, will be the most desired bike for thieves
who want a quick sale. Maybe we're already there.


My impression from my last bike ride in Germany in 2014 is that they are
already there. Around 25% percent of the bikes I saw were E-bikes. If
you count only newer ones that number would probably be north of 50%.

I don't know how standardized E-bikes are but that's also an issue. The
more standardized the higher the chances of being stolen. Because, like
many Japanese cars where parts commonality is very high, they are highly
desired at chop shops. Worth more money in parts than as a whole so they
are butchered the minute they arrive. Once parted out the chance of
being discovered is almost zilch.

We already have four "standards" in e-bike and pedelec motor fitments, the first three fitting standard traditional frames:
1. Around a standard front axle.
2. Around a standard rear axle, with a cog or a cluster of cogs.
3. Centrally, mounted through a standard bottom bracket shell, as in the 8FUN motor sold by BMS and everyone else as an aftermarket fitment.
4. Bosch/Panasonic, central, requiring a custom frame, but so many made that effectively this is a already a common, semi-standard frame. The motors, intended for OEM users, are very expensive at retail, so there could be a burgeoning stolen market once replacements become necessary.

There are some other mounting patterns that require brackets to be welded or brazed onto frames, or even custom frames, but none of them has taken off.

Makes you wonder if Bosch and Panasonic had lack of interchangeability in mind as an anti-theft measure, and got overtaken by success.

Andre Jute

For who is the chance that the car gets stolen a requirement when buying a car? Not buying a Rohloff hub because it can get stolen? Ridiculous.

Lou