#11
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Tire width and RR
Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:05:08 -0700, Mark Hickey skrev:
I measured a "25mm" Conti Gatorskin this morning, and it was 23.4mm wide. I noticed that most tires are smaller than labeled, probably because lightness is considered the most important parameter. My "25mm" Conti 4-Season measures 24 mm, and the "23 mm" labeled measures 22 mm. That doesn´t affect my question, however. Ivar |
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#12
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Tire width and RR
Thu, 09 Jun 2005 14:35:29 -0600, skrev:
You may be able to find some 23 vs 25 mm tires on this chart, with different pressures: http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/tech/JL.htm All that I saw in a quick glance was near the bottom, where a 23-622 Michelin Axial Supercomp at 110 psi had exactly the same results as a 25-622 Nokian Roadie used at 100 psi because they both were measured at a rolling resistance coefficient of 0.0046. More than 2 significant digits may be needed before any difference would show up. Dear Carl Thanks for the considerations and links. I've been there before some time ago. This time I understand a bit more. The beerdrinkers chart SEEMS to confirm, that a wider tire, even with a lower pressure, will not produce more RR - maybe even less. On the chart there are two Hutchinson tires of resp. 25 and 28 mm with resp. 100 and 120 psi pressure. And the 28 mm with 100 psi has a 15 pct. lower RR than the 25 mm with the 120 psi. However I am not able to tell for sure, whether it is actually the same model with the same casing, pattern and rubber compund or just the same company. All I can get out of the calculation of relative RR, is that higher pressure in the same tire will result in (a slightly) lower RR. As you note, that is not the way it works on real asphalt roads. It may indicate, that the difference in RR is insignificant. That does not satisfy my curiousity, however. Now I have sent my original question to Continental Tires technical dept. - they should know. Ivar Hesselager Denmark |
#13
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Tire width and RR
9 Jun 2005 12:29:26 -0700, bfd skrev:
Does it matter? I say pump your 700x25 tires up to 100-110psi (what that about 7 BAR) and ride! Riding is what's going to make you faster. You are absolutely right: The difference in actual RR is not important. Still I find it interesting. Discussing and researching the subject doesn´t steal time from riding, but from other unimportant matters. ;-) Ivar |
#14
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Tire width and RR
Quoting Ivar Hesselager :
The tests that I have seen (referred to), however, compare 23 mm and 25 mm with THE SAME pressure. But how does a comparison between RR from a 23 mm and a 25 mm otherwise identical tire come out, if they each have THE RECOMMENDED pressure, i.e. 7,5 and 6,5 BAR respectively? This will be the relevant comparison, I think. Not really. There are two issues here; rolling resistance and comfort. Increased pressure improves RR and decreases comfort (to a point - I know we've seen the suggestions that very high trackie-style pressures are no good at all on road); if you compare two tyres at different pressures you've also got a difference in comfort which is unquantifiable. We know from the identical pressure tests that for the same pressure, and hence ride comfort, the fatter tyre has better RR. We can deduce from that that we could make the RRs identical and the fatter tyre would offer superior comfort (because it would be at a lower pressure). -- David Damerell Distortion Field! Today is First Chedday, June - a public holiday. |
#15
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Tire width and RR
ahh comfort 80 mph on the snow to x country atb 20 degrees
down the rapids during flood mit swim trunks mmm this is a good hurricane-lookit the &^%&(( gators! must be the wrong group anyway-the auto bike analogy has an inverse the bike, gives an immediate notice of increased or decreased friciton- pick a part- that's the sensation but after a few miles-given a small increase or decrease-the rider adapts and that new sensation submerges into total experince. but the car going from 185mm to 235mm-that's unforgettable. ahhh the beach boys... hey watch those gators!! |
#16
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Tire width and RR
Mark Hickey wrote:
"Ivar Hesselager" wrote: I use Conti 4-Season tires in 25 mm on my road bike, because I have read from several sources that 25 mm tires have less rolling resistance than the 23 mm. (Plus better traction, puncture resistance and comfort, but that is beside the point). The tests that I have seen (referred to), however, compare 23 mm and 25 mm with THE SAME pressure. Just to throw another spanner into these already suffering works, I measured a "25mm" Conti Gatorskin this morning, and it was 23.4mm wide. If you want a fatter tire for its nominal width, try Vittoria. My 23mm were actually over 24mm. They're some of the supplest tires around too. Matt O. |
#17
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Tire width and RR
Strayhorn wrote:
In article , "Matt O'Toole" wrote: If you want a fatter tire for its nominal width, try Vittoria. My 23mm were actually over 24mm. They're some of the supplest tires around too. Strange - my Vittoria tires marked "25c" were actually around 24mm as well. In fact, they are about the same width as the 23mm Panaracers now on the bike (exact measurements are written down at home, alas). Wonder if they just make the same width tired and slap different stickers on them? Probably. I've noticed this with various Vittorias too. They make a big deal about the tread compound and design, and even give different specs for width, among tires that are practically identical. They've proven to be excellent tires anyway, in spite of the BS. Just too expensive... Matt O. |
#18
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Tire width and RR
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:37:10 -0400, Strayhorn wrote:
In article , "Matt O'Toole" wrote: If you want a fatter tire for its nominal width, try Vittoria. My 23mm were actually over 24mm. They're some of the supplest tires around too. Strange - my Vittoria tires marked "25c" were actually around 24mm as well. In fact, they are about the same width as the 23mm Panaracers now on the bike (exact measurements are written down at home, alas). I seem to remember some posts claiming that Vittoria used to under-label their tires, and switched labeling for a given type, so that your newer 25s may very well be the same tires as the older 23s. Jasper |
#19
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Tire width and RR
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:37:10 -0400, Strayhorn wrote: In article , "Matt O'Toole" wrote: If you want a fatter tire for its nominal width, try Vittoria. My 23mm were actually over 24mm. They're some of the supplest tires around too. Strange - my Vittoria tires marked "25c" were actually around 24mm as well. In fact, they are about the same width as the 23mm Panaracers now on the bike (exact measurements are written down at home, alas). I seem to remember some posts claiming that Vittoria used to under-label their tires, and switched labeling for a given type, so that your newer 25s may very well be the same tires as the older 23s. Well, one way to give people a smoother, more supple tire is to simply give them a bigger one! Only so much can be done with exotic casings, and tread can only be so thin. Matt O. |
#20
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Tire width and RR
In article ,
Strayhorn wrote: In article , "Matt O'Toole" wrote: If you want a fatter tire for its nominal width, try Vittoria. My 23mm were actually over 24mm. They're some of the supplest tires around too. Strange - my Vittoria tires marked "25c" were actually around 24mm as well. In fact, they are about the same width as the 23mm Panaracers now on the bike (exact measurements are written down at home, alas). Wonder if they just make the same width tired and slap different stickers on them? I run Serfas wire bead trainers for their puncture resistance. They ride well and corner well. Here are some measurements. Nominal Actual width STK-27.5 - 27"x 1.25" Wire Bead 1.25" STK-23 700 x 23 Wire Bead 24 mm STK-28 700 x 28 Wire Bead 27 mm -- Michael Press |
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