|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:03:53 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:50:10 -0700, "Dan" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:17:36 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: wrote: I'm looking for sites that show climbing (standing or seated) riders from the side (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You're up to something, Carl. What is it? Dear Leo, Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya-- Er, by that I mean, of course, that I'm looking for sites that show climbing (standing or seated) riders from the side. C. Montgomery Burns Until now I had thought that you were on an intellectual pursuit. Are poison donuts involved? Dear Dan, Err . . . no, sir. I discussed this with our lawyers and they consider it murder. W. Smithers Dear Carl (/another/ Simpsons character), Do you really want pictures of climbing cyclists /from the side/ as you say, or from in front or behind (to better show leaning forces at work, as seems to be your latest buttbuggle)? Bill "inventing words now" S. Dear Bill, Climbing, from the side. Diagrams or animations would be better for seeing how the rider is positioned in relation to the seat, bars, and pedals Pictures at a right angle would still be worth looking at, but most pictures that I've found are more three-quarter shots that don't really let you tell if the hips are behind, above, or ahead of the pedals (or much else). I want the angle of this picture with the one-eyed guy (or his wife) going up a hill on a bicycle: http://www.arca.net/uffizi/img/1615a-b.jpg Of course, if you've got a diagram, picture, or animation that shows how much the rider and bike lean opposite ways from the front or rear, I'd be glad to have that link, too. Carl Fogel |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
wrote: I want the angle of this picture with the one-eyed guy (or his wife) going up a hill on a bicycle: http://www.arca.net/uffizi/img/1615a-b.jpg ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This one-eyed guy is wearing a hat with a roll bar, so the next time he goes over the handlebars he won't damage his nose again. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
Dan wrote:
wrote in message ... On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:17:36 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: wrote: I'm looking for sites that show climbing (standing or seated) riders from the side (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You're up to something, Carl. What is it? Dear Leo, Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya-- Er, by that I mean, of course, that I'm looking for sites that show climbing (standing or seated) riders from the side. C. Montgomery Burns Until now I had thought that you were on an intellectual pursuit. Are poison donuts involved? Mmmh, doooonuts. -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
wrote:
Climbing, from the side. Have you checked out http://grahamwatson.com/ ? Or possibly, since you're interested in climbing, http://www.littlechainring.com/ |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:43:02 +0200, "Robert Chung"
wrote: wrote: Climbing, from the side. Have you checked out http://grahamwatson.com/ ? Or possibly, since you're interested in climbing, http://www.littlechainring.com/ Dear Robert, Aha! In this picture . . . http://grahamwatson.com/news/images/2005/17may7.jpg .. . . the arms of both riders are only slightly curved, their heads are up, and they aren't twisting or dropping a shoulder, so they look fairly relaxed for a standing climb. A vertical line dropped from either rider's ear will fall between the front axle and the intersection of the fork and tire. (The right edge of the picture makes this very clear on the far rider, whose face is half cropped.) The same ear position is shown in this picture, which is even better: http://www.littlechainring.com/12%20...climb%20bw.jpg Look at all those lines on the building and crowd rails in the background beyond Lance! The camera angle isn't perfect, but it's as close as we're likely to get to a grid in an impromptu picture. Again, a true vertical line (the picture is a bit tilted, so you have to use the building beyond him) dropped from his ear appears to descend between his front axle and the intersection of the fork and tire. The ear business seems to work, even though Lance is crouching more, his head is down, and his arms are bent further than the more relaxed riders standing in the other picture.) The headless rider just ahead of Lance is interesting, too. His right leg is almost fully straightened near the bottom of the downstroke--and look how far forward he's bent at this moment and how his body is twisted slightly to his right, following his descending right foot. His right elbow is bent back behind the leading edge of his forward-bent left thigh. The faint vertical line on the wall beyond Lance is helpful. A ruler laid along it will touch the back of each of Lance's elbows, the back of his bent right knee, and the middle of his left ankle on the downstroke. His front axle is nicely centered against the bottom of the crowd railing and aligned with an upright bar--the background forms a protractor for his front wheel. Raise a vertical line from the bottom bracket--lay a ruler parallel to that helpful faint line on the wall. About 90% of Lance's body is ahead of the bottom bracket. Only his right foot, part of his lower right leg, and part of his butt are behind a true vertical line rising from the bottom bracket. Do the same thing with the headless rider ahead of Lance, and you get roughly the same result--practically all of the rider is forward of a true vertical line rising from the bottom bracket. Of course, the bottom bracket is not the true center of mechanical action in this situation. Lance's foot will rotate forward as well as downward, bringing it more under his center of mass about half-way down, and then retreat backward behind him for the rest of the downstroke. But it looks to me as if the riders are leaning well forward onto the bars and curling from side to side, with one elbow following the foot on each downstroke. They may be pulling down and toward the downstroke pedal with one arm, but I think that they must also be pulling the other way with the other arm to keep their balance. The angles make it look as if they're doing a lot of forward leaning on the handlebars--mimic that position while standing on a scale and leaning against a railing, and you'll find it hard to pull down enough to make the scale read your original weight. I'm starting to think that the real advantage of standing is not so much "weight on the pedal" as improving the posture for exerting greater force with the leg muscles themselves. When standing, the thigh angle is much closer to being straight relative to the body and has a much better mechanical advantage--it's closer to the natural human standing posture than our usual seated position, where our thighs come up much farther and end up at their feeblest angle. Notice how much harder we strain as our thighs start coming up toward our chests--we can stand easily with our legs bent only slightly, but once our knees come up to roughly 90 degrees relative to our torsos, things get harder and harder. Our legs work best when dangling mostly below us.) Here's the same picture with three black lines that I think are roughly true vertical, showing how far forward the rider is leaning: http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/d...lanceclimb.jpg The real advantage of standing up seems to be how far away it puts the knees from the chest, not how much weight it puts above the bottom bracket--the riders seem to be leaning much farther forward than a "full-weight-on-the-pedal" theory would allow. Carl Fogel |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
wrote in message http://grahamwatson.com/news/images/2005/17may7.jpg Lance is helpful. By any chance was this picture taken at Lance's first SF Grand Prix 2001? -tom |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
wrote:
http://www.littlechainring.com/12%20...climb%20bw.jpg Ah, yes. That picture was taken on Fillmore. The gradient along that block is about 18%. Here's another photo from the 2002 race on Fillmore that gives you a clearer picture of its steepness: http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/SFG..._ekigroup2.jpg I'm starting to think that the real advantage of standing is not so much "weight on the pedal" as improving the posture for exerting greater force with the leg muscles themselves. Yeah. Force goes up and cadence goes down. http://aemes.mae.ufl.edu/~fregly/pdfs/jb2002.pdf BTW, Fig. 5 in that paper compares peak crank torque for horizontal and uphill riding. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
Tom Nakashima wrote:
wrote in message http://grahamwatson.com/news/images/2005/17may7.jpg Lance is helpful. By any chance was this picture taken at Lance's first SF Grand Prix 2001? -tom I'm pretty sure that picture was taken at the 2005 Giro d'Italia. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:44:04 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: wrote in message http://grahamwatson.com/news/images/2005/17may7.jpg Lance is helpful. By any chance was this picture taken at Lance's first SF Grand Prix 2001? -tom Dear Tom, Sorry, I ended up just giving the picture links, not the articles in which they're embedded. The Lance picture is captioned "Lance Armstrong climbs Fillmore in 2001" he http://www.littlechainring.com http://www.littlechainring.com/12%20...climb%20bw.jpg It's the top right-hand picture on the littlechainring page. The other picture is the third one down he http://grahamwatson.com/news/grahamsnotes27.html http://grahamwatson.com/news/images/2005/17may7.jpg It's from the 2005 Giro. Carl Fogel |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Side-view diagram of climbing rider on bicycle?
wrote in message ... wrote in message Lance is helpful. By any chance was this picture taken at Lance's first SF Grand Prix 2001? -tom Dear Tom, Sorry, I ended up just giving the picture links, not the articles in which they're embedded. The Lance picture is captioned "Lance Armstrong climbs Fillmore in 2001" he http://www.littlechainring.com http://www.littlechainring.com/12%20...climb%20bw.jpg I'm in the picture, that's me standing behind the gal right in front of Lance's helmet. I got there around 7:00am to claim my spot on Fillmore St. 2001. There was already a huge crowd there and once you got your space, it was nearly impossible to leave. Some rode their bikes to view the race, as they had to hand carry above their heads and over the crowd just to move. Hincapie was awesome! I rode my motorcycle there because of the traffic, parked a 1/4 block away from Fillmore, but when I tried to leave early, I was boxed in by Willie "milk it for all it's worth" Brown's entourage. Good thing Slick Willy didn't stay long and I was able to get out of the city. -tom |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Children should wear bicycle helmets. | John Doe | UK | 516 | December 16th 04 12:04 AM |
Does public health care pay for your head injuries? | John Doe | UK | 187 | November 30th 04 02:51 PM |
published helmet research - not troll | Frank Krygowski | General | 1927 | October 24th 04 06:39 AM |
Why Bicycle People Race, by Dr Wilson. | Ewoud Dronkert | Racing | 3 | February 22nd 04 07:12 PM |
Reports from Sweden | Garry Jones | General | 17 | October 14th 03 05:23 PM |