cycling in NYC

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

I believe that I was the originator of the box cutters comment which
wasn't an attempt to malign security but to point out that many of the
laws to supposedly protect us really aren't well thought out.

And I do seem to remember something about terrorists killing a
passenger on some airline by cutting his/her throat with a box cutter.

If I said something like "I seem to remember reading somewhere that cycling
is more dangerous than gardening" I would be challenged immediately to show
proof.

This thread seems to have turned into a defence of guns based on the fact
that knives kill too.

Well, seeing that automobiles kill as many or more than guns and are
acceptable in polite company why shouldn't guns be acceptable too?
--

Cheers,

John B.

On 4/8/2016 6:31 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/8/2016 3:24 AM, Duane wrote:

If I said something like "I seem to remember reading somewhere that
cycling
is more dangerous than gardening" I would be challenged immediately to
show
proof.

You could just make up the proof, so that would not be much of a
challenge. No one would believe you, but that would only be a problem if
you cared about being believed.

Or you could actually look for real data. You could get your librarian
to fetch you a copy of the relevant paper, which has been cited dozens
of times here.

Powell et. al., "Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening, Weightlifting,
Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics", Medicine & Science in Sports &
Exercise, 1998, Vol. 30 pp. 1246-9.

The research team polled over 5000 people who had chosen at least one of
those activities for exercise. One question was whether the participant
had incurred an injury during the previous month. The results:

Weightlifting: 2.4% of participants injured
Gardening or yard work: 1.6%
Aerobic Dance: 1.4%
Walking for exercise: 1.4%
Outdoor bicycling: 0.9%

This doesn't say that gardening is more dangerous than bicycling.
Danger can be measured in various ways. It's certainly possible that at
least a few of the bicycling injuries were more serious than the
gardening injuries. But it does indicate that the "Danger! Danger!"
warnings about ordinary bicycling are a bit hysterical.

Of course, if you're Scharf of Duane, you can continue to pretend that
real data doesn't exist. Scharf in particular is addicted to the
phrases "All the data shows" and "all the experts say."

When "Danger! Danger!" is one's religion, it can be very hard to deny
one's dogma.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

Interesting that the evidence for boxcutters being used is so scant; I
had imagined that the story was better documented than it is.

If I said something like "I seem to remember reading somewhere that cycling
is more dangerous than gardening" I would be challenged immediately to show
proof.

This thread seems to have turned into a defence of guns based on the fact
that knives kill too.

I'm not sure the point is that well defined.

--

On 4/8/2016 3:14 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
John B. considered Fri, 08 Apr 2016 18:24:48
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:24:50 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

I believe that I was the originator of the box cutters comment which
wasn't an attempt to malign security but to point out that many of the
laws to supposedly protect us really aren't well thought out.

And I do seem to remember something about terrorists killing a
passenger on some airline by cutting his/her throat with a box cutter.

If I said something like "I seem to remember reading somewhere that cycling
is more dangerous than gardening" I would be challenged immediately to show
proof.

This thread seems to have turned into a defence of guns based on the fact
that knives kill too.

Well, seeing that automobiles kill as many or more than guns and are
acceptable in polite company why shouldn't guns be acceptable too?

It's a matter of having things in the RIGHT environment.
A motor vehicle, properly and safely driven, on a public highway, is
not controversial, and neither is a firearm on a shooting range, while
hunting, or in the armed services, a large knife in a kitchen, an axe
when chopping timber, etc.
Outside those proper environments, their use is inappropriate, and
their possession is questionable.
Even in London, where knife crime is something of a hot topic, a chef
carrying a properly packaged knife set is not controversial - unless
he unwraps them and starts waving them around.
A gamekeeper may carry a shotgun on the estate for which he is
responsible for controlling any pests he sees, but would be in deep
doo-doo if he took it shopping with him.

I've used rifles and on one occasion a handgun when I was training in
the armed services cadet force, and signed permission for two of my
children to do the same (and expect to for a third). They couldn't
carry them around in the street though, and these days every single
round of ammunition has to be accounted for.
I've driven motor vehicles that had the capability take down many
buildings, but if I used them to do that, I wouldn't have been allowed
to ever again.
And I've worked in jobs where carrying a knife goes with the job.
All of these things are controlled, but if you have a good reason for
carrying them in that place and at that time, it's perfectly ok.

Banning and controlling are completely different things.


OK, knives, whatever. How about an axe AND a sword?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2592829

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:55:12 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

Interesting that the evidence for boxcutters being used is so scant; I
had imagined that the story was better documented than it is.

Big Boxcutter hired the cyber-ninjas at reputation.com to suppress the story. The reality is too bleak for words. I saw at least five boxcutter victims on my way to work. This is just the tip of the iceberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55SF3bYA2dQ

-- Jay Beattie.

jbeattie writes:

On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:55:12 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

Interesting that the evidence for boxcutters being used is so scant; I
had imagined that the story was better documented than it is.

Big Boxcutter hired the cyber-ninjas at reputation.com to suppress the
story. The reality is too bleak for words. I saw at least five
boxcutter victims on my way to work. This is just the tip of the
iceberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55SF3bYA2dQ

Curtis Snow, huh? Any relation to this Canadian gentleman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QncAcz4qrUc
--

I was in a UK country pub (having cycled there :-) and about a dozen tweedies cane in, all toting 12-bore shotguns, which they then leaned up carefully (some classic shotguns are worth +$50K) in the corner while they ate lunch. I assume they were unloaded...

That would be illegal in Maine (and probably other US states) where, despite the 2nd Amendment, guns are prohibited in licensed premises. Huh.

Speaking of Maine - the 911 hijacker bought his box cutter at the WallyMart in Portland, spent the night at an airport hotel and boarded his first flight there. The box cutter was noticed in his hand baggage, but it was allowed through as there was no prohibition at that time for such "tools".

SteveP

A gamekeeper may carry a shotgun on the estate for which he is
responsible for controlling any pests he sees, but would be in deep
doo-doo if he took it shopping with him.

On 4/8/2016 4:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:55:12 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

Interesting that the evidence for boxcutters being used is so scant; I
had imagined that the story was better documented than it is.

Big Boxcutter hired the cyber-ninjas at reputation.com to suppress the story. The reality is too bleak for words. I saw at least five boxcutter victims on my way to work. This is just the tip of the iceberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55SF3bYA2dQ

-- Jay Beattie.


Huh.
I don't have sound on my machine and the captions are
incomprehensible.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/9/2016 4:03 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
Steve Patriquen considered Sat, 9 Apr 2016 02:09:16
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

That would be illegal in Maine (and probably other US states) where, despite the 2nd Amendment, guns are prohibited in licensed premises. Huh.

Yes, the precise nature of controls varies from place to place.
Look at the way in which alcohol is controlled for an example.
I understand there are places in the US where a city boundary or even
a state line passes through a street, and drinkers migrate from one
part to another through the day in order to take advantage of the
different controls on the hours during which licensed premises may
sell alcohol.

The nearest city is considering defining an "entertainment zone" or
something like that, in part of the downtown. It would permit the open
carry and drinking of alcohol outside on the sidewalks, something that's
currently prohibited. That's already done by special permit for certain
outdoor cultural festivals. So yes, rules certainly can vary based on
location or context.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 8:41:11 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2016 4:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 8:55:12 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 07/04/2016 7:44 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:03:29 -0700 (PDT), Steve Patriquen
wrote:

Any knife with a locking blade is illegal in the UK (even a 1" blade
if it locks) and in the city will probably result in arrest and
possibly jail time. Non-locking knives are limited to 3.5" blades,
but can still be confiscated if carried (for example) on public transport.

Police often set up metal detectors at major train stations, for
example. Tradesmen have been "done" for having a box cutter in their
van (after work, drop off tools, go to pub or else). Plenty of
horror stories about innocents being arrested.

And knife crime/murders? Makes no difference at all, as far as stats go

- SteveP


If I remember correctly one of the terrorists that knocked down the
N.Y Trade Center had a "Box Cutter" on his person when he checked in
and it was found.... but as the blade was so short he was allowed to
carry it in his pocket.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/693992/posts

Hmm. No box cutter was found in the debris of the plane and the tower it
demolished, so that means the terrorists didn't use a box cutter?

Sounds like the National Boxcutter Association is hard at work, defending our
God given right to carry box cutters wherever we like!

- Frank Krygowski

I don't remember reading about any remains of the terrorists being
found in the debris either. Does that mean that they weren't there
(:-?

One of their passports turned up tout de suite. Supposedly a bystander
found it on the street and handed it to a cop.


My point was that box cutters were not illegal to carry on a plane at the
time so the idea that security was somehow negligent if the allowed this
isn't correct. And then secondly there is 0 evidence that box cutters were
even involved.

Interesting that the evidence for boxcutters being used is so scant; I
had imagined that the story was better documented than it is.

Big Boxcutter hired the cyber-ninjas at reputation.com to suppress the story. The reality is too bleak for words. I saw at least five boxcutter victims on my way to work. This is just the tip of the iceberg: https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=55SF3bYA2dQ

-- Jay Beattie.


Huh.
I don't have sound on my machine and the captions are
incomprehensible.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

and the jokes ehehheyayyayyayay not the Iowa Fair !