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#11
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The cost of Century Rides
On 4/20/2016 7:43 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 7:34 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:01:54 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. $30-40 up here for a standard century. $70-80 for the deluxe free beer/wine good food ride -- with a crappy route. http://www.portlandcentury.com/ I don't typically ride organized centuries -- and there are not that many up here. I think the SCV has way more of them -- and more people with money. I did a super-expensive century last year in Washington -- which was $135, but I got in free because my sister-in-law was working support. That fee also included an O.K. jersey and a shuttle bus ride. You could get the ride only for $60 (along with admission to the "festival"): http://giganticbicyclefestival.org/#...r_registration. Interesting point-to-point ride -- you had to shuttle to the start or from the end back to the start. I got a shuttle ride to the start and then did the ride back to Snoqualmie. Wow. Seems to me it's another example proving that there's no upper limit to what some people will pay. Normal economic theory always said that when prices rise, fewer sales will occur (a phenomenon known as "elasticity"), so maximum profit can be visualized as the intersection between the profit-per-sale curve and the sale-vs-price curve. Or something vaguely like that. (Hey, it's been years.) But there are buyers that defy the logic, and pay very high prices for products that most consumers would reject. Which is _not_ to deliberately slag custom lugged steel frames... One of the _Freakonomics_ books had another example of that. A very intelligent woman, maybe (I forget) with degrees in economics, liked sex very much. She turned professional and did quite well, with "johns" who were upper-income and generally pleasant. But it got to be just too tiring, or something, so she decided to apply elementary economics and raise her prices sky high. She found to her surprise that she had about as much business as before; but she was raking in a lot more money. So in economic terms, the demand for a good whore is inelastic. Maybe the same can be said of a "luxury" century ride. The term you want there is "Veblen goods". Over in the economics department overfilled sagging shelves are rife with theses on pricing theory but you do have the essence of it above. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#12
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The cost of Century Rides
On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 5:21:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/20/2016 7:43 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/20/2016 7:34 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:01:54 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. $30-40 up here for a standard century. $70-80 for the deluxe free beer/wine good food ride -- with a crappy route. http://www.portlandcentury.com/ I don't typically ride organized centuries -- and there are not that many up here. I think the SCV has way more of them -- and more people with money. I did a super-expensive century last year in Washington -- which was $135, but I got in free because my sister-in-law was working support. That fee also included an O.K. jersey and a shuttle bus ride. You could get the ride only for $60 (along with admission to the "festival"): http://giganticbicyclefestival.org/#...r_registration. Interesting point-to-point ride -- you had to shuttle to the start or from the end back to the start. I got a shuttle ride to the start and then did the ride back to Snoqualmie. Wow. Seems to me it's another example proving that there's no upper limit to what some people will pay. Normal economic theory always said that when prices rise, fewer sales will occur (a phenomenon known as "elasticity"), so maximum profit can be visualized as the intersection between the profit-per-sale curve and the sale-vs-price curve. Or something vaguely like that. (Hey, it's been years.) But there are buyers that defy the logic, and pay very high prices for products that most consumers would reject. Which is _not_ to deliberately slag custom lugged steel frames... One of the _Freakonomics_ books had another example of that. A very intelligent woman, maybe (I forget) with degrees in economics, liked sex very much. She turned professional and did quite well, with "johns" who were upper-income and generally pleasant. But it got to be just too tiring, or something, so she decided to apply elementary economics and raise her prices sky high. She found to her surprise that she had about as much business as before; but she was raking in a lot more money. So in economic terms, the demand for a good whore is inelastic. Maybe the same can be said of a "luxury" century ride. The term you want there is "Veblen goods". Over in the economics department overfilled sagging shelves are rife with theses on pricing theory but you do have the essence of it above. Although I doubt the snob effect operates with much force in the bicycle century market. There are exceptions though: http://gourmetcentury.com/ride/?project=portland-or Chris King is now in the business of high-end foodie metric centuries. You should consider branching out. Consider the "corn dog" ride or something like that. To really enjoy the Portland area rides you can't be from around here or a serious cyclists because the courses are so well known. I do these courses in response to a one-line text from a friend. They are gourmet rides if you consider Cliff Bars to be gourmet food. IMO, riding with a small group of friends is so much better than the herd scene or a theme ride. -- Jay Beattie. |
#13
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The cost of Century Rides
On 21/04/2016 10:13 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip Although I doubt the snob effect operates with much force in the bicycle century market. There are exceptions though: http://gourmetcentury.com/ride/?project=portland-or Chris King is now in the business of high-end foodie metric centuries. You should consider branching out. Consider the "corn dog" ride or something like that. To really enjoy the Portland area rides you can't be from around here or a serious cyclists because the courses are so well known. I do these courses in response to a one-line text from a friend. They are gourmet rides if you consider Cliff Bars to be gourmet food. IMO, riding with a small group of friends is so much better than the herd scene or a theme ride. Agreed. My club has a century ride but it's just for club members. The only organization is we pick the route and the start times. You have to buy your own cliff bars. Groups take off somewhat together but quickly split up based on speed so we end up riding with our groups. Riding with my group is like riding with a small group of friends. I've been to a few organized rides and being in a pack or people with varying levels of competency on varying types of terrain is not one of my favorite things. To each his own. |
#14
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The cost of Century Rides
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:43:23 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 7:34 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:01:54 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. $30-40 up here for a standard century. $70-80 for the deluxe free beer/wine good food ride -- with a crappy route. http://www.portlandcentury.com/ I don't typically ride organized centuries -- and there are not that many up here. I think the SCV has way more of them -- and more people with money. I did a super-expensive century last year in Washington -- which was $135, but I got in free because my sister-in-law was working support. That fee also included an O.K. jersey and a shuttle bus ride. You could get the ride only for $60 (along with admission to the "festival"): http://giganticbicyclefestival.org/#...r_registration. Interesting point-to-point ride -- you had to shuttle to the start or from the end back to the start. I got a shuttle ride to the start and then did the ride back to Snoqualmie. Wow. Seems to me it's another example proving that there's no upper limit to what some people will pay. Normal economic theory always said that when prices rise, fewer sales will occur (a phenomenon known as "elasticity"), so maximum profit can be visualized as the intersection between the profit-per-sale curve and the sale-vs-price curve. Or something vaguely like that. (Hey, it's been years.) But there are buyers that defy the logic, and pay very high prices for products that most consumers would reject. Which is _not_ to deliberately slag custom lugged steel frames... One of the _Freakonomics_ books had another example of that. A very intelligent woman, maybe (I forget) with degrees in economics, liked sex very much. She turned professional and did quite well, with "johns" who were upper-income and generally pleasant. But it got to be just too tiring, or something, so she decided to apply elementary economics and raise her prices sky high. She found to her surprise that she had about as much business as before; but she was raking in a lot more money. So in economic terms, the demand for a good whore is inelastic. Maybe the same can be said of a "luxury" century ride. -- - Frank Krygowski not. Century $$$ . is https://goo.gl/IlBACn neither biological nor Pucker n Ramble |
#15
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The cost of Century Rides
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So in economic terms, the demand for a good whore is inelastic. Maybe the same can be said of a "luxury" century ride. I wuz on this at YakYak The Car Wash https://goo.gl/BHukpq cars line up day after day all VC542))=+ winter deep so I cannah get around to pass onto DV The Shell Station helpless senile old gaffers looking for company...at the car wash ! HD detail$ OOOOOOHH nice Merc Rhonda....is the hubby in surgery ? go for a spin ? |
#16
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The cost of Century Rides
rrrrrrrrrrrrr Sure it's dopey, but if you get the right ride -- something epic and well done -- it's worth it. Some of the rides cater to foodies and are just an excuse to eat and drink, which certainly sells tickets. instant camadairy ...take me for example. I have no riding friends. Money I have. so I book a ride $250 no prob...hell, I can drag the attendant into the bushes....ride ride ride and whoola ! theresmuhgroup I ride with muh group. some days are better than others so but urine right ? I held up on the green going under the overpass which is blind. waited for a complete cycle. easily rounded the abutment n who who who why a carload of beachies running the light at 20 mph in the wrong lane making a 6 lane crossing against the light onto the beach road. they waved. its the real thing....... not from Ohio |
#17
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The cost of Century Rides
On 2016-04-21 04:38, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 5:55:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:01:41 -0700, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. ??? Californians have to pay to ride 100 miles ??? On a public highway ??? A new tax system perhaps? Sure it's dopey, but if you get the right ride -- something epic and well done -- it's worth it. Some of the rides cater to foodies and are just an excuse to eat and drink, which certainly sells tickets. -- Jay Beattie. One can't just get on the bike and ride off into the sunset? I had my weekly "half-century" yesterday, along with a pint of Kaffir Leaf Saison at one of my watering holes and then had the "bike growler" filled with that as well. Entry fee: Zero. $20 plus tip got me five pints of excellent brewsky (four of which my wife and I drank in the evening at home, not during the ride). With my bike and outfit they probably wouldn't have let me on a fancy organized ride anyhow. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#18
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The cost of Century Rides
For your reference, records indicate that
Frank Krygowski wrote: Normal economic theory always said that when prices rise, fewer sales will occur Not if the product was underpriced for the market in the first place. Most luxury goods are not price-sensitive, just as long as the demand is there. An organized bike ride might not be a great luxury, but anyone who is going to bother spending $40 on one probably has the resources to spend $60 on one (and even more with “extras”). But it got to be just too tiring, or something, so she decided to apply elementary economics and raise her prices sky high. She found to her surprise that she had about as much business as before; but she was raking in a lot more money. That’s just Business 101. She was a constrained supply in high demand; she should have been raising her prices all along. If the demand is still too high, she didn’t raise prices enough. Same would be true of other sorts of “ride” organizers. :-) -- "Also . . . I can kill you with my brain." River Tam, Trash, Firefly |
#19
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The cost of Century Rides
On 4/21/2016 7:38 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:21:18 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 5:55:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:01:41 -0700, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. ??? Californians have to pay to ride 100 miles ??? On a public highway ??? A new tax system perhaps? Sure it's dopey, but if you get the right ride -- something epic and well done -- it's worth it. Some of the rides cater to foodies and are just an excuse to eat and drink, which certainly sells tickets. -- Jay Beattie. One can't just get on the bike and ride off into the sunset? I don't do many invitational rides. (In fact, many of my riding friends are surprised at how few of them I ride.) I generally prefer to get on my bike at my own house and ride off into the sunset, or sunrise, or whatever. But there can be a nice energy among a group of people at an event ride. At the most recent one I did, I had miles of friendly conversation with a guy from a neighboring state, comparing bikes and riding terrain and club customs and much else. Later I chatted with a guy about his nice custom touring bike (with SON hub and B&M headlight); discussed aero bars and handlebar bags with other folks; talked about the excellent scenery with yet another person, and so on. So, every once in a while I have fun on an organized ride. It's very rare for me to drive more than an hour to attend one, though. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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The cost of Century Rides
On 2016-04-21 07:13, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 5:21:10 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/20/2016 7:43 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/20/2016 7:34 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:01:54 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: I was at the Sea Otter Classic last Saturday and visited a booth of a California cycling magazine which had information on a bunch of upcoming century rides. I looked at the one for my old bicycle club, where in the 1980's we argued about raising the entry cost to $12 from $10 (or maybe it was $8 to $10). Our century was never intended to be a fund-raiser, so we set the price to just break even. I saw that the registration for that ride is now $80 ($70 for early registration) and that a tee shirt is another $20. Are there enough people paying $70-100 to ride on public roads to keep all these century rides in business? Of course the smartest cyclist guys of all time were the ones that began the Cinderalla Classic http://www.valleyspokesmen.org/cinderellaclassic I also notice that the clubs no longer require or perform any bicycle inspections. Way too much liability if they allow an unsafe bicycle on the ride. At least that ride is a slightly more reasonable $58. $30-40 up here for a standard century. $70-80 for the deluxe free beer/wine good food ride -- with a crappy route. http://www.portlandcentury.com/ I don't typically ride organized centuries -- and there are not that many up here. I think the SCV has way more of them -- and more people with money. I did a super-expensive century last year in Washington -- which was $135, but I got in free because my sister-in-law was working support. That fee also included an O.K. jersey and a shuttle bus ride. You could get the ride only for $60 (along with admission to the "festival"): http://giganticbicyclefestival.org/#...r_registration. Interesting point-to-point ride -- you had to shuttle to the start or from the end back to the start. I got a shuttle ride to the start and then did the ride back to Snoqualmie. Wow. Seems to me it's another example proving that there's no upper limit to what some people will pay. Normal economic theory always said that when prices rise, fewer sales will occur (a phenomenon known as "elasticity"), so maximum profit can be visualized as the intersection between the profit-per-sale curve and the sale-vs-price curve. Or something vaguely like that. (Hey, it's been years.) But there are buyers that defy the logic, and pay very high prices for products that most consumers would reject. Which is _not_ to deliberately slag custom lugged steel frames... One of the _Freakonomics_ books had another example of that. A very intelligent woman, maybe (I forget) with degrees in economics, liked sex very much. She turned professional and did quite well, with "johns" who were upper-income and generally pleasant. But it got to be just too tiring, or something, so she decided to apply elementary economics and raise her prices sky high. She found to her surprise that she had about as much business as before; but she was raking in a lot more money. So in economic terms, the demand for a good whore is inelastic. Maybe the same can be said of a "luxury" century ride. The term you want there is "Veblen goods". Over in the economics department overfilled sagging shelves are rife with theses on pricing theory but you do have the essence of it above. Although I doubt the snob effect operates with much force in the bicycle century market. There are exceptions though: http://gourmetcentury.com/ride/?project=portland-or Chris King is now in the business of high-end foodie metric centuries. You should consider branching out. Consider the "corn dog" ride or something like that. Or a "farm-to-fork" ride where three specially arrange lettuce leaves and one slice of super-duper-organic tomato costs 50 bucks extra. 60 bucks with an eco-friendly onion ring. To really enjoy the Portland area rides you can't be from around here or a serious cyclists because the courses are so well known. I do these courses in response to a one-line text from a friend. They are gourmet rides if you consider Cliff Bars to be gourmet food. IMO, riding with a small group of friends is so much better than the herd scene or a theme ride. Amen! After moving to the Netherland decades ago I started riding with some groups and found that almost their only motivation was sports. Faster, harder, tougher. No chatting, no pub stops, nothing. If you aren't walking on your teeth at the end the ride wasn't exhausting enough. Not my cup of tea. Soon I noticed other much smaller groups, they chatted all the time, had a slightly different accent. Belgians. They rode for what really matters: Fun. Some carried two bottle holders and one contained a demi-bouteille (375ml, usually red wine). They let that circle once in a while during (!) rides. Nowadays you'd probably get arrested for that. When one of them saw a promising pub he hollered "Venten, daar is en mooien kroeg!" and the whole "peloton" veered right over there. Nobody was going to miss a nice big glass of Trappiste. Fast forward to the US where I now live. Road bikers are much more competitive, almost like in the Netherlands. All in fancy Lycra and whatnot, brand new bikes, they probably consider me close to homeless or so. Even slightly hinting "I'll stop over at Mraz Brewpub" often results in comments like "Oh, that would slow me way down" or "Beer? That'll sap the energy right out of me". Huh? Mountain bikers are very different in that respect. "Where is that? Let's go there!" -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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