Heart Rate / Power

I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I hold
250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the tank,
but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not seem
very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the roof
when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level off
after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

Thx, Jeff

a couple things come to mind,

either your powertap is dysfunctional because the numbers show that every 5
minutes the HR increases 5bpm = very odd these numbers would always move in
lockstep

or 250watts is riding a TT and there is not much fitness so HR will increase
over time as the heart becomes tired and less O2 efficient fuels are needed


"crit pro", information that don't make sense, HR spiraling out of control,
.. . . with your experience, can you provide some insight?


"Jeff Daigle" wrote in message
...
I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I
hold
250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the tank,
but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not seem
very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the
roof
when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level
off
after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

Thx, Jeff

the heart rate did not go up exactly lockstep, I was estimating the HR at
those particular times by looking at a graph, so I think the Powertap is
functioning fine.

anyway, I was just wondering, like I said, I thought the HR would level off
at a particular wattage. I'm certainly no pro, I just do riding with
friends, club rides, and one or two races a year, and this is my second year
biking.

I'm just getting over a cold, so perhaps I will try this again in a week to
see if I get the same results...

I have noticed that on a 40-50 mile ride, if I go real hard the 1st 20-30
minutes, I don't seem to 100% recover again for the rest of the ride,
perhaps my endurance or fitness is just poor!?

thx, jeff

"xzzy" wrote in message
news:8e4bd.381514$Fg5.65376@attbi_s53...
a couple things come to mind,

either your powertap is dysfunctional because the numbers show that every
5
minutes the HR increases 5bpm = very odd these numbers would always move
in
lockstep

or 250watts is riding a TT and there is not much fitness so HR will
increase
over time as the heart becomes tired and less O2 efficient fuels are
needed


"crit pro", information that don't make sense, HR spiraling out of
control,
. . . with your experience, can you provide some insight?


"Jeff Daigle" wrote in message
...
I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I
hold
250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the
tank,
but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not
seem
very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the
roof
when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level
off
after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

Thx, Jeff

Theory #1 - You were riding above your threshold pace and were
accumulating lactate acid over the thirty minutes resulting in the rise
over time.

Theory #2 - You were riding on an indoor trainer without a fan
If you do not have a huge fan on your body temp will go up when riding
an indoor trainer. At higher temps your heart needs to work very hard
to cool you down and this would explain the rise over time.

Theory #3 - You did not drink much in the 30 minutes and became dehydrated.

For long rides you should never go hard in the first 30 minutes.

-Mark

jorge wrote:
the heart rate did not go up exactly lockstep, I was estimating the HR at
those particular times by looking at a graph, so I think the Powertap is
functioning fine.

anyway, I was just wondering, like I said, I thought the HR would level off
at a particular wattage. I'm certainly no pro, I just do riding with
friends, club rides, and one or two races a year, and this is my second year
biking.

I'm just getting over a cold, so perhaps I will try this again in a week to
see if I get the same results...

I have noticed that on a 40-50 mile ride, if I go real hard the 1st 20-30
minutes, I don't seem to 100% recover again for the rest of the ride,
perhaps my endurance or fitness is just poor!?

thx, jeff

"xzzy" wrote in message
news:8e4bd.381514$Fg5.65376@attbi_s53...

a couple things come to mind,

either your powertap is dysfunctional because the numbers show that every

5

minutes the HR increases 5bpm = very odd these numbers would always move

in

lockstep

or 250watts is riding a TT and there is not much fitness so HR will

increase

over time as the heart becomes tired and less O2 efficient fuels are

needed


"crit pro", information that don't make sense, HR spiraling out of

control,

. . . with your experience, can you provide some insight?


"Jeff Daigle" wrote in message
...

I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I

hold

250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the

tank,

but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not

seem

very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the

roof

when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level

off

after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

Thx, Jeff

thanks for the different ideas, seems #1 is the most probable...

#2...I was riding on an indoor trainer, but I had a fan blowing on me

#3... I didn't drink anything in those 30 minutes, I didn't think you could
lose enough water in only 30 minutes to make a performace difference?

"50kph" wrote in message
ink.net...
Theory #1 - You were riding above your threshold pace and were
accumulating lactate acid over the thirty minutes resulting in the rise
over time.

Theory #2 - You were riding on an indoor trainer without a fan
If you do not have a huge fan on your body temp will go up when riding
an indoor trainer. At higher temps your heart needs to work very hard
to cool you down and this would explain the rise over time.

Theory #3 - You did not drink much in the 30 minutes and became
dehydrated.

For long rides you should never go hard in the first 30 minutes.

-Mark

jorge wrote:
the heart rate did not go up exactly lockstep, I was estimating the HR
at
those particular times by looking at a graph, so I think the Powertap is
functioning fine.

anyway, I was just wondering, like I said, I thought the HR would level
off
at a particular wattage. I'm certainly no pro, I just do riding with
friends, club rides, and one or two races a year, and this is my second
year
biking.

I'm just getting over a cold, so perhaps I will try this again in a week
to
see if I get the same results...

I have noticed that on a 40-50 mile ride, if I go real hard the 1st
20-30
minutes, I don't seem to 100% recover again for the rest of the ride,
perhaps my endurance or fitness is just poor!?

thx, jeff

"xzzy" wrote in message
news:8e4bd.381514$Fg5.65376@attbi_s53...

a couple things come to mind,

either your powertap is dysfunctional because the numbers show that
every

5

minutes the HR increases 5bpm = very odd these numbers would always move

in

lockstep

or 250watts is riding a TT and there is not much fitness so HR will

increase

over time as the heart becomes tired and less O2 efficient fuels are

needed


"crit pro", information that don't make sense, HR spiraling out of

control,

. . . with your experience, can you provide some insight?


"Jeff Daigle" wrote in message
...

I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I

hold

250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the

tank,

but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not

seem

very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the

roof

when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level

off

after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

Thx, Jeff

Jeff Daigle wrote:
I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If
I hold 250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm
5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the
tank, but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage
did not seem very hard. I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to
go through the roof when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the
heart rate would level off after about 5 minutes at a particular
wattage.

Thx, Jeff

Try warming up properly and do this again. The difference between your 10
minute and 30 minute HR should not be this big at all, maybe 10 beats at the
most. Even if you are going above your threshold. Since you didn't blow up
you weren't going above your 30 minute Functional Threshold Power.Possibly
above your 31 minute FTP but you don't know that until you blow up.

If you want some good feedback on how to train with Power goto
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read
Join the mailinglist and ask your questions there.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:42:19 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
wrote:

Try warming up properly and do this again. The difference between your 10
minute and 30 minute HR should not be this big at all, maybe 10 beats at the
most. Even if you are going above your threshold. Since you didn't blow up
you weren't going above your 30 minute Functional Threshold Power.Possibly
above your 31 minute FTP but you don't know that until you blow up.

If you want some good feedback on how to train with Power goto
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read
Join the mailinglist and ask your questions there.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

PE, this is intriguing. If you don't mind, could you run down what the FTP
is? Are you saying it's a kind of power threshold that you can do for 30
minutes and then you have to drop off the pace?

-B

Badger_South wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:42:19 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
wrote:

Try warming up properly and do this again. The difference between
your 10 minute and 30 minute HR should not be this big at all, maybe
10 beats at the most. Even if you are going above your threshold.
Since you didn't blow up you weren't going above your 30 minute
Functional Threshold Power.Possibly above your 31 minute FTP but you
don't know that until you blow up.

If you want some good feedback on how to train with Power goto
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read
Join the mailinglist and ask your questions there.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

PE, this is intriguing. If you don't mind, could you run down what
the FTP is? Are you saying it's a kind of power threshold that you
can do for 30 minutes and then you have to drop off the pace?

-B

Intriguing is only the beginning
FTP in itself is usually measured as your Functional Threshold Power for a
duration of 60 minutes. And yes if I can still do it after 61 minutes I
didn't go hard enough. Almost at that level the difference would only be
fractions of a Watt anyway.
From this you can calculate what you can expect of yourself over different
durations
This gives me a number to work with when calculating my training zones. Lets
say my FTP is 270W.
If I want to do an endurance ride for instance I'll try to average 150-200
W. The shorter it is, no less than 1 1/2 - 2 hours, the closer I will be to
200W. The longer it is the closer I will be to 150W.
If I want to do VO2max intervals I will do 3-8 minute intervals in the zone
286 - 326 W. Shorter intervals closer to 326W and longer intervals closer to
286W.
To increase my FTP I do 2*20 minute intervals at or slightly above my FTP
These are numbers that I get from my Software that I download my PM to(
PowerMeter ). They work quite perfectly in most cases and are an immense
help when I need to pace myself. For instance for a TT or doing intervals.
Most of the time I forget to look at my HR, it isn't really relevant until
maybe after I download. For instance. When I do a 60 minute TT at 270W avgP
( average Power) my HR can average 165 bpm one day and 175 bpm another day,
depending on weather, hydration, how well I slept etc etc. However my Power
is what counts.

The mailing list I recommended above is very informative. You can also read
some more about Training with Power at
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411.html

Try to read all articles by Andy Coggan. He is the intriguing man by all
means and he has put a *lot* of work into making Power Based Training
comprehensive and useful to the cyclists outside of the big trade teams.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

"Jeff Daigle" wrote in message
...
I just recently bought a Powertap and have been playing with it. If I
hold
250 watts, my heartrate at the following times is:

0 minutes - 60 bpm

Warm up, or you'll produce crap results.

5 minutes - 165 bpm
10 minutes - 170 bpm
15 minutes - 175 bpm
20 minutes - 180 bpm
25 minutes - 185 bpm
30 minutes - 190 bpm

At the end of the 30 minutes, I didn't really have much left in the tank,
but oddly enough the first 15 minutes of holding that wattage did not seem
very hard.

That's a bit odd - work on endurance, maybe? Or perhaps you're either
getting dehydrated or started that way, or you're turning a big gear and
running out of strength (easy to confuse with running out of power).

I'm wondering why my heart rate continues to go through the roof
when holding a wattage? I was assuming that the heart rate would level
off
after about 5 minutes at a particular wattage.

It normally will, roughly - actually it will go up, then almost plateau but
continue to rise slowly, if you aren't really well hydrated and drinking
every so often, or if you're building up lactic acid. What's your cadence
for this?

Peter

"Per Elmsäter" wrote in message
...
Badger_South wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:42:19 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
wrote:

Try warming up properly and do this again. The difference between
your 10 minute and 30 minute HR should not be this big at all, maybe
10 beats at the most. Even if you are going above your threshold.
Since you didn't blow up you weren't going above your 30 minute
Functional Threshold Power.Possibly above your 31 minute FTP but you
don't know that until you blow up.

If you want some good feedback on how to train with Power goto
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read
Join the mailinglist and ask your questions there.

--
Perre
I gave up on SPAM and redirected it to hotmail instead.

PE, this is intriguing. If you don't mind, could you run down what
the FTP is? Are you saying it's a kind of power threshold that you
can do for 30 minutes and then you have to drop off the pace?

-B

Intriguing is only the beginning
FTP in itself is usually measured as your Functional Threshold Power for a
duration of 60 minutes. And yes if I can still do it after 61 minutes I
didn't go hard enough. Almost at that level the difference would only
be
fractions of a Watt anyway.
From this you can calculate what you can expect of yourself over different
durations
This gives me a number to work with when calculating my training zones.
Lets
say my FTP is 270W.
If I want to do an endurance ride for instance I'll try to average 150-200
W. The shorter it is, no less than 1 1/2 - 2 hours, the closer I will be
to
200W. The longer it is the closer I will be to 150W.
If I want to do VO2max intervals I will do 3-8 minute intervals in the
zone
286 - 326 W. Shorter intervals closer to 326W and longer intervals closer
to
286W.

I find the % method of determining zones (VO 2 max done at x% of a certain
power number) to be inaccurate. I think it's because a person's ability in
different zones will vary from one individual to another. I prefer to
establish zones based on performances (previous training sessions) in each
of those zones.

When I was approaching my peak in early August I was doing 30 seconds on/off
or 1 minute on intervals near 600 watts each, which is much higher than the
tables you (Per) are referring to. Earlier in the season these same
intervals were done closer to 450 watts. I don't think there was a
corresponding change in my LT or FTP that would have indicated how high
these ranges needed to be as my fitness was changing.

What ever you're happy with...

-WG