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my fixie doesn't need improvement



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 19th 18, 08:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 4:45:57 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, like Jay already said nothing is mandatory and it is OK with me people using friction DT shifters for whatever reason but unreliabity of STI/Ergo's or quicker shifting of DT friction shifters can't be the reason.
For me STI/Ergo, clipless pedals, 9/10/11 speed and modern cycling clothes made my riding much more pleasant. YMMV..

Lou
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  #52  
Old February 19th 18, 02:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 19/02/2018 12:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.



Not a follower of Ned Ludd I see.

I haven't raced in a long time except a few time trials but wouldn't go
back to friction shifters. Toe clips either.

The fact that we got by without new tech isn't a reason to avoid new
tech if it works.
  #53  
Old February 19th 18, 03:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 2:01:19 PM UTC+1, duane wrote:
On 19/02/2018 12:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.

Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.



Not a follower of Ned Ludd I see.

I haven't raced in a long time except a few time trials but wouldn't go
back to friction shifters. Toe clips either.

The fact that we got by without new tech isn't a reason to avoid new
tech if it works.


STI/Ergo new tech? It is 30 years old!

Lou
  #54  
Old February 19th 18, 04:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:32:00 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:14:44 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.

Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.

BTW, I would have used the old brake hose to pull the new, but the meth-heads pulled the old tube. Why? Who knows. The thief or an associate cut the tube at the bars, took the rear caliper and yanked the tube out of the frame. The grommets are lost, and by pulling out the hose, the thief left the foam outer hose (a foam sleeve that keeps the hose from rattling) inside the frame. I had to fish that out with my Harbor Freight dental tool.

-- Jay Beattie.


Boy, these modern bikes sound complex. I don't have any pipes or tubes
but my cable (1) just tie to the top tube :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.


Look at it this way, modern bikes allow you to develop your electrical and plumbing skills -- not just simple mechanical skills.

I replaced the stolen (now returned) Roubaix with a Synapse, and since I got it on a crash-replacement deal and had insurance dollars, I totally splurged and got Ultegra Di2. Electric is nice, but I don't like it as much as my cohorts -- who are effusive. Learning new levers always takes me a while because I ride every day during the week on old STI.

Anyway, I went out for a muddy ride last week, threw the bike on the washstand and was doing my usual routine with a brush in the cassettes, turning the crank, and I dragged the rear wire into the cassettes and tore it up. GD! It's $16 for a cable run to the junction, and a PITA to fish the wire through the chain stay and the junction out of the downtube through the BB. So, since there is a bunch of redundant wire, I just pulled a little out, cut it back, soldered it together and did a tidy shrink-tube job, and it works like a charm. I did get a new wire to have around, though, and I may throw it in one day. But it was odd getting out the electrical tool box for the bike. What's next? Drywall?

Di2 is nice, and I have no worry about batteries going dead, but it is a luxury I can live without. It is not game-changing in the same way as STI/Ergo except for those people who can use the remote switch for sprinting or tri or what-have-you. It also allows programming and software updating, etc., which is fine for the Garmin set, but I've run out of brain cells for learning new technology, or I'm running low.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #55  
Old February 19th 18, 04:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/19/2018 2:59 AM, wrote:
On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 4:45:57 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.

--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, like Jay already said nothing is mandatory and it is OK with me people using friction DT shifters for whatever reason but unreliabity of STI/Ergo's or quicker shifting of DT friction shifters can't be the reason.
For me STI/Ergo, clipless pedals, 9/10/11 speed and modern cycling clothes made my riding much more pleasant. YMMV..


I completely agree with your post. People have different preferences and
different criteria.

Sometimes we discuss the reasons different people make different
equipment choices. That's because this is a discussion group.

I never cared about quicker shifting. I did have to fix some reliability
problems with others' STI systems early on, so it made an impression on
me. But the decades since have convinced me that they are suitably
reliable. As I said, if I were to buy another road bike now, I'd
probably get one with STI or equivalent.

But I don't anticipate buying another road bike. One thing I like the
most about bikes is that they last and last. And they last better if
they have the most versatile component choices. The stuff I have - many
decades old in a lot of cases - just keeps working.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #56  
Old February 19th 18, 04:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/19/2018 2:34 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:45:55 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.


Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.


But my experience was that we pushed up a lot of the hills :-)


I know guys who love climbing hills. They enjoy the challenge.

I was never a hill lover, but I guess I climbed well enough. My personal
challenge was, and still is, to never dismount and push. On our
coast-to-coast trip, my wife and daughter walked a couple hills but I
never did.

In fact, in my first 40 years of riding I can remember only two times I
pushed up a hill. One was on a tandem ride in very hilly Amish country
in summer, riding with friends on another tandem. Steep hills (certainly
over 10% grade), very hot weather and sticky tar pavement combined to
make us push. The other incident was a solo camping trip, climbing out
of a valley on a gravel road. I could have handled the steep grade, but
the gravel gave so little traction I couldn't keep going.

Now last fall, I explored a new route and hit a climb that was about 17%
to 18% by the little inclinometer on my handlebar. I was in my granny
gear and standing, and my legs were yelling at me. But I made it. That's
using friction bar-end shifters.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #57  
Old February 19th 18, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/19/2018 10:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Di2 is nice, and I have no worry about batteries going dead, but it is a luxury I can live without. It is not game-changing in the same way as STI/Ergo except for those people who can use the remote switch for sprinting or tri or what-have-you. It also allows programming and software updating, etc., which is fine for the Garmin set, but I've run out of brain cells for learning new technology, or I'm running low.


I'm not part of the Garmin set. But I'm getting more and more bothered
by the "soft" aspect of software.

What I mean is, with anything from word processing to computer drafting
to music notation software to smart phone apps to even a weather
predicting web page, I have to deal with "updates" and "improvements."
So the look and feel changes. Or what was once in this menu is now in
some other menu. Or the steps I took to make something happen no longer
work, and the "help" file hasn't been updated to tell me the alternative.

This is bad enough on stuff I use regularly. On things I would do only
rarely (like fine tuning shift parameters on a Di2 system) it can be
really frustrating.

One you learn to use a ratchet wrench, you always know how to use a
ratchet wrench. I wish software was like that.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #58  
Old February 19th 18, 05:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2018-02-18 11:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 8:05:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 18:28, John B. wrote:


[...]

Twist your hand and shift the rear derailer from the
smallest cog to the largest and with the same movement the front
from the largest to the smallest.

Think how many time you shift from the highest gear to the lowest
in one fell swoop on your usual Sunday ride :-?



Not on my Sunday rides but it does on my weekday ride. I regularly
stall the MTB because I can't slam it from high to very low fast
enough, unless I know the terrain, am willing to pre-shift before
the creek bed and travel accordingly slower. So I try to "beat it"
by shifting at the last seconds when I think I'll have just enough
time to get through all the gears, with the double-ratcheting that
Deore M591 RapidFire allows. It ain't as "rapid fire" as friction.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Never had that problem
with friction when in the days when I used my road bike of dirt
paths (had to).

That's when I wish I had a Rohloff. OTOH 1500 bucks dampens that
desire and on a full suspension MTB it would get complicated
anyhow. Plus it won't get me the same gear range.


The good part is that you can probably find some friction shifters
for your MTB in a junk bin at that olde-tyme bike shop in Folsom.



Indexed shift levers would also work. However, not very well on an MTB
with a hydroformed aluminum frame. Grip shifters on the handlebar are
almost as fast but would interfere with the hydraulic brake levers.


You can become known on the trail as the friction shifter guy. With
the cotton t-shirt and shorts thing, along with the five pound
battery, panniers, heart-lung machine, rope, three gallons of water,
nail and rock for chain repair, you'll be like the new Road Warrior,
challenging the whimps with index shifting.


Don't forget the crash-proof 16oz stainless steel thermos with homebrew
IPA in there. The rock doesn't have to ride along, it is provided locally.

BTW, you might snicker about a rope or leash but that has prevented
little Odin from running farther towards a busy thoroughfare where he
could have found a gruesome end of his life. He was later picked up by
his owner at our house.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #60  
Old February 19th 18, 05:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 401
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 19/02/2018 10:24 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 11:32:00 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 21:14:44 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 7:45:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/18/2018 8:04 PM, John B. wrote:

So, one might say that for riding in hilly terrain the STI shifters
are mandatory for success while if riding on level ground are far less
important.

Even in hilly terrain, STI is not mandatory for non-competitive success.
I've crossed the Appalachians with friction shifting.

People succeeded in riding in hilly terrain even before there were
derailleurs, let alone STI.

Nothing is mandatory. I've crossed all the major mountain ranges with friction shifters, too. I just prefer STI. And I would say that it would be handicap to race without them.

BTW, I would have used the old brake hose to pull the new, but the meth-heads pulled the old tube. Why? Who knows. The thief or an associate cut the tube at the bars, took the rear caliper and yanked the tube out of the frame. The grommets are lost, and by pulling out the hose, the thief left the foam outer hose (a foam sleeve that keeps the hose from rattling) inside the frame. I had to fish that out with my Harbor Freight dental tool.

-- Jay Beattie.


Boy, these modern bikes sound complex. I don't have any pipes or tubes
but my cable (1) just tie to the top tube :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.


Look at it this way, modern bikes allow you to develop your electrical and plumbing skills -- not just simple mechanical skills.

I replaced the stolen (now returned) Roubaix with a Synapse, and since I got it on a crash-replacement deal and had insurance dollars, I totally splurged and got Ultegra Di2. Electric is nice, but I don't like it as much as my cohorts -- who are effusive. Learning new levers always takes me a while because I ride every day during the week on old STI.

Anyway, I went out for a muddy ride last week, threw the bike on the washstand and was doing my usual routine with a brush in the cassettes, turning the crank, and I dragged the rear wire into the cassettes and tore it up. GD! It's $16 for a cable run to the junction, and a PITA to fish the wire through the chain stay and the junction out of the downtube through the BB. So, since there is a bunch of redundant wire, I just pulled a little out, cut it back, soldered it together and did a tidy shrink-tube job, and it works like a charm. I did get a new wire to have around, though, and I may throw it in one day. But it was odd getting out the electrical tool box for the bike. What's next? Drywall?

Di2 is nice, and I have no worry about batteries going dead, but it is a luxury I can live without. It is not game-changing in the same way as STI/Ergo except for those people who can use the remote switch for sprinting or tri or what-have-you. It also allows programming and software updating, etc., which is fine for the Garmin set, but I've run out of brain cells for learning new technology, or I'm running low.



The people I know that use Di2 love it. Like Lou says the batteries
don't seem to be an issue. One guy hit a dog and went over the bars
mucking up his derailleur in the process. He said that the Di2 reset it
for him enough to ride home. He was trying to sell everyone on it.

For me it's the price point. My bike would have been quite a bit more
with Di2. I'll "suffer" with my brifters until the price comes down or
my income goes up.

 




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