Heine on inflation

On 2016-03-14 19:42, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:25:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-03-13 19:27, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sun, 13 Mar 2016
07:47:03 -0700 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-12 16:37, Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sat, 12 Mar 2016
11:04:00 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2016-03-11 18:42, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:30:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:38:50 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:

The guys with the beards are carrying handle bar bags that look very
similar to what Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur riders carry.

The Paris - Brest - Paris is a 1200 km(~745 miles) ride done in 90
hours or less. The winning rider in 2015 did the distance in a bit
over 42 hours.


Ha ha. Ho ho. I have ridden Paris-Brest-Paris. 2007. My memory is fading but I do not recall anyone using handlebar bags anywhere near that size. I was with the fast group, the 80 hour. So maybe all the people with suitcases on the front of their bikes were in the 90 hour group leaving behind me.

But some do carry bags. Example:

2015 Christian Mauduit 68.20 E123 Photos:
http://ultra.ufoot.org/2015/crpbp/img-001997
E038 even seems to be carrying a backpack and finished in 74.12.


Some also don't adhere to the Lycra "dress code":

http://www.letelegramme.fr/local/mor...11-1408687.php

It puzzles me how they can keep a 46.5km/h average. That's almost 30mph.
If I try to hold 25mph for even just an hour I am really tuckered out.


That speed is the one he achieved in the race at Monza, on the motor
racing circuit, not in the PBP, and was only over 3 hours. Note he
uses a recumbent, which is far more efficient than a UCIcle.
To achieve that speed in the PBP would be phenomenal, and would give a
finishing time in the order of 26 hrs 27 min. Google translate is
unclear on whether he used a fairing in the PBP (although he clearly
didn't in the race at Monza), although it gives his time for that as
80hr3min (which averages 15.3654km/h), so not particularly fast for a
serious sporting rider on a recumbent in the PBP. They give the
distance as 1260km (maybe that's what he measured). The official PBP
website states 1230km, which splits the difference between the 1200
quoted above (which corresponds with the original distance) and that
given for the rider in that article, so is probably the most accurate.
But the speed you have to achieve to finish in under the 90 hour limit
is only 13.667 km/h, so nobody averaged over 40km/h - even that would
have them finishing in 30h45m.


Hmm, considering it's not in the Alps that should be easy.

You don't need mountains to have a large total climb and descent - a
lot of short hills will have the same overall effect. According to
some riders who've ridden such events, the constant undulations are
actually worse, as you can't establish a rhythm. Of course, that may
depend on what you've trained for.


Not at all the same effect. For example, there is an MTB trail out to
the west that has serious undulations. But short enough so you can
"bomb" down and then let it roll up the other side. IOW those
undulations have hardly any effect on the average speed. This is also
what my Cateye Padrone says. On longer roads in this same area that
isn't possible for the simple reason that even if you didn't mind
exceeding 50mph (I do mind) you would smack into cross traffic at the
bottom of the hill. That wouldn't only be not smart, it would be
potentially lethal. Same with a front tire blowout at 50mph.


I suspect that the interpretation of "undulations" is the essence
here. Undulations that don't require down shifting more then one cog
probably don't cause problems but the "many short hills" that was
mentioned might very well have an effect on average speed.


I have lots of them on a trail where I over-shift hard. 5-15-25-27-29-30
.... woohoo ... down the slope ... rat-tat-tat ... then whambam all
shifted back to get up the last steep part. It's like huge dunes, you
just have to watch out not to crash over a rock or something. The net
energy loss is surprisingly small, maybe because I run 55psi in the MTB
tires.

The other challenge is that at the bottom there is often a creek and
you'll be slamming though its bed at 25mph or more. Riders who believe
in thin tubes and 25psi often end up with a rear flat at the other side.

[...]


Anyone who achieves a timed finish in either event has my deepest
admiration, even if I do think they are masochistic lunatics
Post event depression is also apparently commonplace, as enormous
preparation and training needs to be undertaken before being ready for
such an event (PBP insist on qualification by completing events of
200, 300, 400 and 600km in the year of the PBP being entered, although
LEL simply recommend that riders be accustomed to long distance
riding). You'd have to be crazy not to treat that as an absolute
minimum requirement though. But once you've done it - what next? Even
if you ride both events, that's a two year wait, so you can hardly (in
the weeks after completion) regard either as training for the next.

Both are explicitly endurance challenges not races, although in both
events there is a certain amount of competitiveness to achieve a fast
time, as can be expected.
In particular, results are not published by the organisers in
finishing or completion time order, but by entry number or name
(alphabetical), to avoid any problems or challenges over how the event
is classified for all sorts of legal, insurance, or competition
regulation reasons.


That's a fair handling of the scores because all finishers shall be
admired. I still do not see much sense in performing such a torture
ride. At least not for me.

Randonneuring, or Audax, seems to be more common then most think. the
Boston - Montreal - Boston is a 1200 km. randonnée on the East Coast
and there are others. The Gold Rush Randonnée is from Davis, CA to
Goose Lake near to the Oregon border.


Yes, I've met many cyclists who did that. But it's not my cup of tea.


From what I read these people ride from 10,000 - 14,000 miles a year
and one of them, Pamela Blalock, posted in her blog that she "rode
every day except one, where I did get out for a walk. I logged 2924
kms with 41,219 meters of climbing!" while undergoing chemotherapy for
breast cancer.


Now that is admirable!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-03-15 07:30, wrote:
On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 11:06:38 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 3/14/2016 9:26 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:


As you say, anyone who completes one of the 1200k+ rides is
worthy of admiration and respect, so hats off to Russel Seaton.


I'll second that. Same to some folks here (Jay?) who rode Monitor Pass
all the way at a pretty good clip. That takes a high pain tolerance to do.


I agree. I have a friend who has done the PBP ride, and I admire
the feat. I did my only 200 mile day riding with him, and I
decided that was challenge enough for me!

-- - Frank Krygowski

Thank you. But in hindsight, old age, I am not sure I would
recommend doing these rides or randonneuring in general. As I get
older I realize I like to just enjoy my bike rides. That means
reasonable distances and terrain with frequent stops to socialize
with my riding buddies. Doing something just to say you did it does
not have much luster anymore. ...


Especially when it has longer term consequences. A buddy who also kayaks
had a shoulder injury from some spectacular whitewater work that lasted
almost a year. He couldn't ride his MTB for months. Another who is an
accomplished soccer player will never be able to run or ride a bike in
his live.


... The longer randonneur rides are not
really fun and enjoyable. Spending 12-18-24 hours riding a bike is
not fun. It wears you down physically and mentally. For me, I'm
glad I rode PBP 2007. It might have been better though to just spend
a week riding from Paris to Brest and back carrying a few provisions
and stopping every night at an inn and eating a delicious French meal
and drinking wine.


That's the way I'd have done it :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced rolling
resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration losses. If
the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.

it's a perfectly normal trail, I have and do take CX bikes (33mm 300g
racing ralphs) on worse, the Trance flattens that sort of terrian.


Trance? What's that and how does it flatten tarrain? I want some of it :-)

Giants range of full suspention MTBs been around for years, other
companies do simular.


I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.




I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)



Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.


I have a old MTB that I commute on, that gets more budget tyres, a step
or two above the hard plasticly rubber that the very cheap tyres have.
But reasonably grippy and reasonbly long wear life etc.


I have one as well but no suspension and my back is too bad for taking
that on rough trails.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 10:01:27 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/15/2016 8:14 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 14, 2016 at 10:06:38 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/14/2016 9:26 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:


As you say, anyone who completes one of the 1200k+ rides is worthy of
admiration and respect, so hats off to Russel Seaton.

I agree. I have a friend who has done the PBP ride, and I admire the
feat. I did my only 200 mile day riding with him, and I decided that
was challenge enough for me!


Well (without regard to Russel, who seems to be a fine person), the achievement is worthy of admiration and respect. The person, however, may or may not be worthy of admiration and respect. I know plenty of physically gifted individuals who are horrible people.

-- Jay Beattie.


I couldn't read that without thinking of the drugged out
pervert Jacques Anquetil. Among the most accomplished riders
of all time.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

wait.....is there proof ? or was Jac pulling our stash

On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 11:59:16 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/15/2016 9:36 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 9:01:27 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Well (without regard to Russel, who seems to be a fine person), the achievement is worthy of admiration and respect. The person, however, may or may not be worthy of admiration and respect. I know plenty of physically gifted individuals who are horrible people.

-- Jay Beattie.


I couldn't read that without thinking of the drugged out
pervert Jacques Anquetil. Among the most accomplished riders
of all time.

--
Andrew Muzi

I'd sure like to think I am a fine person. Or at least within one standard deviation (plus or minus) of fine enough. Andy, what was Anquetil's perversion? The drugs are no big deal. Everyone then, and now, are using drugs.



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/book...til-biography/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Paul Howard won the Tdf 5 times ?

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced
rolling resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration
losses. If the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses
are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.

it's a perfectly normal trail, I have and do take CX bikes (33mm 300g
racing ralphs) on worse, the Trance flattens that sort of terrian.


Trance? What's that and how does it flatten tarrain? I want some of it :-)

Giants range of full suspention MTBs been around for years, other
companies do simular.


I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.

5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.



Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I have a old MTB that I commute on, that gets more budget tyres, a step
or two above the hard plasticly rubber that the very cheap tyres have.
But reasonably grippy and reasonbly long wear life etc.


I have one as well but no suspension and my back is too bad for taking
that on rough trails.

Roger Merriman

On 2016-03-19 01:01, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]


What is not really true, in many cases, is that the reduced
rolling resistance of higher pressure tires is offset by vibration
losses. If the bicycle has suspension, then these vibration losses
are not present.


Not really. My full suspension MTB vibrates like crazy on some sections
of trail. This is because you have to run with fairly high pressure in
the shocks for the other more gnarly secitions so you won't bottom out.

something is quite wrong or your vibrates like crazy is my minor
jiggles, I have a Trance not a high end one, but certinly with hans
dampf tyres it makes trails like that smooth. The CX bike I have on
those sort of trails does Vibrate as you'd imagine but not the MTB.


Look at the video and watch the guy's hands. That sort of vibration is
normal out here except in winter when the trails are soggy.

it's a perfectly normal trail, I have and do take CX bikes (33mm 300g
racing ralphs) on worse, the Trance flattens that sort of terrian.


Trance? What's that and how does it flatten tarrain? I want some of it :-)

Giants range of full suspention MTBs been around for years, other
companies do simular.


I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.


Nope, it's real. You can see that when looking at hands versus terrain.
I ride that stretch sometimes and it does rattle your wrist like crazu
no matter what fork.


5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


You would not enjoy that trail on a CX.




I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I run the
tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle strength).
No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a lot. The
suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent bottoming out on
fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.


Hence my 55psi pressure plus motorcycle-strength tube plus tire liner
plus old tube over tire liner.


Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I've got one road bike, one FS MTB and and one older non-suspension MTB.
The latter is used if I have to go somewhere where the theft risk is
higher. Or if one of the other bikes breaks.

This is all I really need because I am not a downhiller, just XC but
then a lot of miles. So I expect bikes to withstand that and also not
incur undue costs per mile.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-19 01:01, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]





I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.


Nope, it's real. You can see that when looking at hands versus terrain.
I ride that stretch sometimes and it does rattle your wrist like crazu
no matter what fork.

it's just a mildly rocky trail/path/road. a modern FS bike is more than
able to float over that sort of stuff.


5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


You would not enjoy that trail on a CX.

I fairly regularly ride simular, the danger isn't pinch flats but
sidewall rips from flint.




I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I
run the tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for
me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle
strength). No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a
lot. The suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent
bottoming out on fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.


Hence my 55psi pressure plus motorcycle-strength tube plus tire liner
plus old tube over tire liner.

trail tyres ie ones with armoured sidewalls would be a fair bit faster
and not need 55psi etc.


Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I've got one road bike, one FS MTB and and one older non-suspension MTB.
The latter is used if I have to go somewhere where the theft risk is
higher. Or if one of the other bikes breaks.

This is all I really need because I am not a downhiller, just XC but
then a lot of miles. So I expect bikes to withstand that and also not
incur undue costs per mile.

[...]

I think you are solving problems which are making life difficult for
yourself. ie over inflated tyres and suspension but hey that is your
life!

Roger Merriman

On 2016-03-26 05:14, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-19 01:01, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]





I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.


Nope, it's real. You can see that when looking at hands versus terrain.
I ride that stretch sometimes and it does rattle your wrist like crazu
no matter what fork.

it's just a mildly rocky trail/path/road. a modern FS bike is more than
able to float over that sort of stuff.


Nope, you can only know if you ride that part. I do regularly and have
been on FS bikes other than mine. On all of them the handlebar shakes
like crazy on that stretch. Sometimes to the point where on straight
stretches I steer with my fingers to ease the banging into the wrist joints.


5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


You would not enjoy that trail on a CX.

I fairly regularly ride simular, the danger isn't pinch flats but
sidewall rips from flint.


That, too, on account of the flimsiy side walls of "modern" tires.
However, I've helped people fix pinch flats in such terrain. It's the
usual telltale damage, two fairly large holes next to each others. The
only reason I still carry the patch kit is ... other riders.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I
run the tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for
me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle
strength). No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a
lot. The suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent
bottoming out on fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing though
Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.


Hence my 55psi pressure plus motorcycle-strength tube plus tire liner
plus old tube over tire liner.

trail tyres ie ones with armoured sidewalls would be a fair bit faster
and not need 55psi etc.


Do you know any 29" ones that are reasonably priced? I mean a tire that
does not add 10c/mile to the operating costs just by itself.


Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I've got one road bike, one FS MTB and and one older non-suspension MTB.
The latter is used if I have to go somewhere where the theft risk is
higher. Or if one of the other bikes breaks.

This is all I really need because I am not a downhiller, just XC but
then a lot of miles. So I expect bikes to withstand that and also not
incur undue costs per mile.

[...]

I think you are solving problems which are making life difficult for
yourself. ie over inflated tyres and suspension but hey that is your
life!


Well, no flats is what I wanted and no flats is what I got after those
changes :-)

The downside is other riders don't and so sometimes when riding together
that can hold us up ... *PHUT* ... phssseeeeoooouuu.

I also did this (almost) with my road bike, installed Gatorskins and
tubes with 0.120" or 3mm wall thickness all around. Aside from never
having flats anymore this affords a major upside: Hardly any loss of air
after the bikes are parked for a longer time. When I need to ship
something urgent via Fedex and their truck is already through I can just
waltz into the garage, pick either the MTB or the road bike, and I can
be sure that neither is low on air even if that particular bike sat
there for several weeks.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-26 05:14, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-19 01:01, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-14 22:26, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 21:57, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-13 15:21, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-03-10 09:08, sms wrote:

[...]





I doubt that would even out the handlebar rattling seen in the video. A
normal fork can't do that, it would at least require an intelligent
system like some larger Citroen cars have.


part of the reason for the rattling is the camera mount, same as some
close overtakes are camera angle.


Nope, it's real. You can see that when looking at hands versus terrain.
I ride that stretch sometimes and it does rattle your wrist like crazu
no matter what fork.

it's just a mildly rocky trail/path/road. a modern FS bike is more than
able to float over that sort of stuff.


Nope, you can only know if you ride that part. I do regularly and have
been on FS bikes other than mine. On all of them the handlebar shakes
like crazy on that stretch. Sometimes to the point where on straight
stretches I steer with my fingers to ease the banging into the wrist joints.

Then that video is fairly poor example of what it is like it real life!
the Video is of mildly rocky trail, a modern FS bike even at speed down
a world cup Downhill track it shouldn't be bucking like mule, the fact
that you've pumped the suspention/tyres pressures rock hard is the
cause.



5inch of fork and rear shock, plus tyres that are wide, smooths such
trails out no problem, you get simular sort of trails, all over the
place. I've ridden my CX bike down far worse, the MTB is a smooth ride.


You would not enjoy that trail on a CX.

I fairly regularly ride simular, the danger isn't pinch flats but
sidewall rips from flint.


That, too, on account of the flimsiy side walls of "modern" tires.
However, I've helped people fix pinch flats in such terrain. It's the
usual telltale damage, two fairly large holes next to each others. The
only reason I still carry the patch kit is ... other riders.

Modern tyres are only flimsy if you buy XC race stuff. same as older
tyres.

buy burly Downhill/enduro etc and they will shrug off pinch
flats/sidewall rips.


I run the suspention to the recomended pressure for my weight. I
run the tyres around the 30PSI mark which is what feels right for
me.


That has resulted in too many pinch flats for me. I now run them at
55psi and with really thick tubes in there (almost motorcycle
strength). No more flats. This made the vibrations worse but not a
lot. The suspension is at 10-20% above for my weight, to prevent
bottoming out on fast stretches.

there is something very wrong with your set up, if your crashing
though Rockgardens maybe but for gravelly trails with odd rock
here and there.

I have never pinch flatted that bike, at 30psi I run my tyres firm
compared to most who go to 20psi ish.

again look at your set up.


Like what on there?

The only reason I carry a patch kit is for other riders. They ride in
the 20-30psi range and get lots of flats.

Some of them laugh at my thick tube plus tire liner plus rubber sleeve
setup. Until ... pshhheeeooouuu.

Not had a pinch flat or sidewall tear yet, the Hans is tough if fast
wearing tyre.


Try El Dorado County :-)

again lots of places have have sharp edged stuff, flint is remarkblt
sharp and will make short work of any lightweight tyre.


Hence my 55psi pressure plus motorcycle-strength tube plus tire liner
plus old tube over tire liner.

trail tyres ie ones with armoured sidewalls would be a fair bit faster
and not need 55psi etc.


Do you know any 29" ones that are reasonably priced? I mean a tire that
does not add 10c/mile to the operating costs just by itself.

again you have a expensive bike, tyres are such a low % of the cost.


Hans Dampf is too pricey for me since I go through rear tires are the
rate of one every 500mi. But if wouldn't make much of a difference.

in my experence tyres make huge differnces.


They do but only if you can find some with sturdy thick sidewalls. The
only 29" tire that came even close cost $80-90. I asked my bike dealer
if that would last more than 500mi. "Nope, not where you ride". The
sturdiest tire I ever had is also the cheapest: Maxxis 1040N, $12.
Unfortunately they do not make 29" versions of it.

wear rate and durablity are not the same thing, the Hans is reinforced,
but also has a soft compound rubber, so it will shrug off side wall
slashes and thus far thorns and like haven't managed to puncture but the
wear is horrific.

But they are what they are, they blow up big and at 30psi or lower offer
staggering performance.

That bike is a high performace machine it cost a fair old amount so
sticking cheap tyres seems a tad daft.


Maybe. I use my MTB also for errands and commutes, sometimes because
there is no other path, sometimes for fun. So lots of XC miles.

I have 3 bikes so I tend to chose the most fun/useful for each ride.


I've got one road bike, one FS MTB and and one older non-suspension MTB.
The latter is used if I have to go somewhere where the theft risk is
higher. Or if one of the other bikes breaks.

This is all I really need because I am not a downhiller, just XC but
then a lot of miles. So I expect bikes to withstand that and also not
incur undue costs per mile.

[...]

I think you are solving problems which are making life difficult for
yourself. ie over inflated tyres and suspension but hey that is your
life!


Well, no flats is what I wanted and no flats is what I got after those
changes :-)

The downside is other riders don't and so sometimes when riding together
that can hold us up ... *PHUT* ... phssseeeeoooouuu.

I also did this (almost) with my road bike, installed Gatorskins and
tubes with 0.120" or 3mm wall thickness all around. Aside from never
having flats anymore this affords a major upside: Hardly any loss of air
after the bikes are parked for a longer time. When I need to ship
something urgent via Fedex and their truck is already through I can just
waltz into the garage, pick either the MTB or the road bike, and I can
be sure that neither is low on air even if that particular bike sat
there for several weeks.

Tubless would do that and the bike wouldn't ride like it's got wooden
tyres, you choices are causing your problems.

Roger Merriman