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Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?



 
 
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  #291  
Old November 2nd 17, 04:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 10:09:50 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:27:36 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-31 07:43, wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/30/2017 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... let me repeat: I've had some motorists act displeased when
I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me over.
I've never known another cyclist who had that happen.

I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They
survived but one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured
spleen. Then there was the woman here who got rear-ended in the
right lane at high speed. Died. Numerous others down in the
valley, including an off-duty police officer who was catapulted
off his road bike and died.

And I can double check my list, but I think it's now up to nine
friends who were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Zero on
bicycles. We can trade anecdotes (and you frequently do) but I give
more credence to unbiased data.

It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up.


Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2

Here's why I "take the risk," Joerg. First, the risk of being hit
while riding lane center is extremely low. Most of those hit that
way seem to be unlit cyclists riding at night, probably drunk or
nearly so. Data's a bit soft, but that does seem to be what it
shows.

But more important: If I waited for "alternatives" such as the one
you show to be built, I would have missed about 45 years of
enthusiastic adult riding. I'd have missed riding in about a dozen
different countries, 47 states and hundreds of different towns and
cities. I wouldn't have been able to ride my bike to work at four
different jobs. I'd have missed wonderful vacations with my family,
and I'd have missed making at least a hundred good cycling
friends.

I know many people have bought the "Danger! Danger!" mantra and
never leave the nice, safe (and horridly boring) bike path. I chose
instead to learn to be competent on ordinary roads. And I'm damned
glad I did.

We pretty much agree with this. I don't have to worry any more about
riding a bike around dangerous drivers than I would driving a car.
But that is a clear and present danger because the police no longer
enforce driving laws. Yesterday I was driving up the street and some
woman pulls a large SUV out of her driveway directly in front of me
forcing me to slam the brakes on. It is common for women especially
to pull out of parking lots or other driveways looking to the right
when traffic comes from the left.


With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side, driver
backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path, the bus
driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane center I'd be
in the hospital or morgue today. Luckily I rode AFRAP, the hydraulic
brakes of my MTB came on prontissimo and I was able to leave the road
without crashing because, well, it was an MTB.

Yes, the offending driver was a woman but I've seen guys do that as
well. She was visibly shaken by all that.


Gee Joerg, you must be riding on very crooked roads. The city streets
I ride on are straight enough that I can see, oh probably 50 feet in
front of me, and by watching I can see vehicles, way down the road,
that might be meaning to drive out into traffic and even braking by
dragging your feet lets you slow down enough to avoid them.

I think the modern term is "Defensive Driving" and it is usually
defined as "Its aim is to reduce the risk of collision by anticipating
dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions or the mistakes of
others."

Of course, the (also modern) street definition is "get your head out
of your arse". A bit impolite perhaps... but memorable.


And as I've said before, I think that idea of observing ahead and planning
ahead is foreign to lots of bicyclists and drivers.

When I see a car beginning to back out of a driveway, I go on high alert. When
I see a car approaching in my rear view mirror at the same time one is
approaching from the front, I pay lots of attention and monitor their progress.
When I'm approaching a section of road filled with potholes, I don't just aim
to miss the one in front of me; I plot a path through the whole field. When I'm
driving and see brake lights way up ahead, I slow down and get ready for more
serious moves, even though most drivers never seem to look further ahead than
the car 10 feet in front of them.

I think this sort of planning ahead is why I've had so few bike crashes over
the years. Heck, I've never needed disc brakes to save myself from deer!

- Frank Krygowski
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  #292  
Old November 2nd 17, 07:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 22:09:08 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Nov 2017 08:54:44 +0700, John B.
wrote:

With my truck it just as easy. Foot on the brake thus limiting engine
RPM, other foot on the throttle, press and you increase fuel flow to
the engine causing a rich mixture and thus smoke.


But that involves learning a little something, and thinking about how
you drive!


Well, there is that :-) Painful for some I guess.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #293  
Old November 2nd 17, 07:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 20:58:21 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 10:09:50 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:27:36 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-31 07:43, wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/30/2017 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... let me repeat: I've had some motorists act displeased when
I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me over.
I've never known another cyclist who had that happen.

I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They
survived but one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured
spleen. Then there was the woman here who got rear-ended in the
right lane at high speed. Died. Numerous others down in the
valley, including an off-duty police officer who was catapulted
off his road bike and died.

And I can double check my list, but I think it's now up to nine
friends who were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Zero on
bicycles. We can trade anecdotes (and you frequently do) but I give
more credence to unbiased data.

It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up.


Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2

Here's why I "take the risk," Joerg. First, the risk of being hit
while riding lane center is extremely low. Most of those hit that
way seem to be unlit cyclists riding at night, probably drunk or
nearly so. Data's a bit soft, but that does seem to be what it
shows.

But more important: If I waited for "alternatives" such as the one
you show to be built, I would have missed about 45 years of
enthusiastic adult riding. I'd have missed riding in about a dozen
different countries, 47 states and hundreds of different towns and
cities. I wouldn't have been able to ride my bike to work at four
different jobs. I'd have missed wonderful vacations with my family,
and I'd have missed making at least a hundred good cycling
friends.

I know many people have bought the "Danger! Danger!" mantra and
never leave the nice, safe (and horridly boring) bike path. I chose
instead to learn to be competent on ordinary roads. And I'm damned
glad I did.

We pretty much agree with this. I don't have to worry any more about
riding a bike around dangerous drivers than I would driving a car.
But that is a clear and present danger because the police no longer
enforce driving laws. Yesterday I was driving up the street and some
woman pulls a large SUV out of her driveway directly in front of me
forcing me to slam the brakes on. It is common for women especially
to pull out of parking lots or other driveways looking to the right
when traffic comes from the left.


With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side, driver
backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path, the bus
driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane center I'd be
in the hospital or morgue today. Luckily I rode AFRAP, the hydraulic
brakes of my MTB came on prontissimo and I was able to leave the road
without crashing because, well, it was an MTB.

Yes, the offending driver was a woman but I've seen guys do that as
well. She was visibly shaken by all that.


Gee Joerg, you must be riding on very crooked roads. The city streets
I ride on are straight enough that I can see, oh probably 50 feet in
front of me, and by watching I can see vehicles, way down the road,
that might be meaning to drive out into traffic and even braking by
dragging your feet lets you slow down enough to avoid them.

I think the modern term is "Defensive Driving" and it is usually
defined as "Its aim is to reduce the risk of collision by anticipating
dangerous situations, despite adverse conditions or the mistakes of
others."

Of course, the (also modern) street definition is "get your head out
of your arse". A bit impolite perhaps... but memorable.


And as I've said before, I think that idea of observing ahead and planning
ahead is foreign to lots of bicyclists and drivers.

When I see a car beginning to back out of a driveway, I go on high alert. When
I see a car approaching in my rear view mirror at the same time one is
approaching from the front, I pay lots of attention and monitor their progress.
When I'm approaching a section of road filled with potholes, I don't just aim
to miss the one in front of me; I plot a path through the whole field. When I'm
driving and see brake lights way up ahead, I slow down and get ready for more
serious moves, even though most drivers never seem to look further ahead than
the car 10 feet in front of them.

I think this sort of planning ahead is why I've had so few bike crashes over
the years. Heck, I've never needed disc brakes to save myself from deer!

- Frank Krygowski


In line with the Safety! Safety! motif, There was a short subject on
the news last night about a guy that met a snake while riding a small
motorcycle. Not wanting to run over it he stopped whereupon the snake
crawled up the forks and twined around the handle bars.

Now this was what the Thais call a "green snake" ( known in the West
as a "bamboo viper" ) and treat with a great deal of respect. To quote
an old country saying, "he bite; you die".

Apparently the guy also posted it to you tube at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e49kbcVRuzE

Apparently one can't be safe anywhere :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #294  
Old November 3rd 17, 03:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On 2017-11-01 20:34, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 4:02:54 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-01 13:00, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/1/2017 3:27 PM, Joerg wrote:

With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side,
driver backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path,
the bus driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane
center I'd be in the hospital or morgue today.

I don't think I'd have ended up in the hospital just because I rode at
lane center. I know about steering a bike.


Except when it's too late to get to the side or as in this case off the
road. But I know, you are superman and can easily put on a kilowatt or
two to do this uphill.


I didn't see anything about uphill speed helping to avoid this crash.


Simple: Steering from lane center to off the road requires a lot of
speed to avoid a huge oncomuing yellow object. Being AFRAP (and having a
MTB) saved teh bacon here.


I have taught, practiced and been tested on bike emergency maneuvers several
times. It's something that happens if you take a Cycling Savvy class, for
instance. As I've previously described, I've used that once, long ago, to
avoid a somewhat similar crash. That one was a sudden left cross.


I wouldn't be interested in such "lessons".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #295  
Old November 3rd 17, 03:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On 2017-11-01 19:09, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 12:27:36 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-10-31 07:43, wrote:
On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 8:14:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/30/2017 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-29 17:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... let me repeat: I've had some motorists act displeased when
I've ridden at lane center. I've never had one run me over.
I've never known another cyclist who had that happen.

I knew two personally who have been hit from behind. They
survived but one lost a kidney and the other had a ruptured
spleen. Then there was the woman here who got rear-ended in the
right lane at high speed. Died. Numerous others down in the
valley, including an off-duty police officer who was catapulted
off his road bike and died.

And I can double check my list, but I think it's now up to nine
friends who were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Zero on
bicycles. We can trade anecdotes (and you frequently do) but I give
more credence to unbiased data.

It doesn't pay to be timid. Man up.


Why take the risk when there are alternatives such as this?

https://goo.gl/maps/XJk1gMRC2eA2

Here's why I "take the risk," Joerg. First, the risk of being hit
while riding lane center is extremely low. Most of those hit that
way seem to be unlit cyclists riding at night, probably drunk or
nearly so. Data's a bit soft, but that does seem to be what it
shows.

But more important: If I waited for "alternatives" such as the one
you show to be built, I would have missed about 45 years of
enthusiastic adult riding. I'd have missed riding in about a dozen
different countries, 47 states and hundreds of different towns and
cities. I wouldn't have been able to ride my bike to work at four
different jobs. I'd have missed wonderful vacations with my family,
and I'd have missed making at least a hundred good cycling
friends.

I know many people have bought the "Danger! Danger!" mantra and
never leave the nice, safe (and horridly boring) bike path. I chose
instead to learn to be competent on ordinary roads. And I'm damned
glad I did.

We pretty much agree with this. I don't have to worry any more about
riding a bike around dangerous drivers than I would driving a car.
But that is a clear and present danger because the police no longer
enforce driving laws. Yesterday I was driving up the street and some
woman pulls a large SUV out of her driveway directly in front of me
forcing me to slam the brakes on. It is common for women especially
to pull out of parking lots or other driveways looking to the right
when traffic comes from the left.


With me that happened yesterday. School bus from the other side, driver
backed out of driveway with gusto into the school bus' path, the bus
driver swerved around and into my lane. If I had been lane center I'd be
in the hospital or morgue today. Luckily I rode AFRAP, the hydraulic
brakes of my MTB came on prontissimo and I was able to leave the road
without crashing because, well, it was an MTB.

Yes, the offending driver was a woman but I've seen guys do that as
well. She was visibly shaken by all that.


Gee Joerg, you must be riding on very crooked roads. The city streets
I ride on are straight enough that I can see, oh probably 50 feet in
front of me, and by watching I can see vehicles, way down the road,
that might be meaning to drive out into traffic and even braking by
dragging your feet lets you slow down enough to avoid them.


We have something out here called vegetation. You know, the stuff with
the leaves on it. My eyes have not yet developed Radar capabilities to
see a car shooting out of a steep driveway in reverse gear. Obviously
the eyes of the bus driver hadn't either and the bus was also not
equipped with collision avoidance Radar.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #297  
Old November 3rd 17, 03:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On 2017-11-01 20:51, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 2:18:04 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 1:57:15 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/1/2017 3:39 PM,
wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:

A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake
force on respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have
faulty brakes and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The
guys look like serious cyclists who know this.

How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it
was possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the
wheels.


Delta maybe but not the classic forged-arm sidepull.


Well adjusted, they had good stopping power -- particularly the
short reach. I used standard reach NR side-pulls on my touring bike
all the way across the US and on many tours. Great stopping even
fully loaded -- using some of the Scott-Mathauser brake pads. The
cooling fins made me go faster.


Four years ago when I was recovering and putting bikes together I had
a super record set on a steel bike of some sort and they would bottom
out bending the arms. Now they were long arm brakes but they did
bottom out.


If you could still turn the wheels while bottomed out do not ride that bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #300  
Old November 4th 17, 04:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Why do some forks and frames have brake rotor size limits?

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 8:47:34 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on
respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes
and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious
cyclists who know this.

How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was
possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels.


I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would
instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let
you ride it off the TUEV test site.

But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany.


So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment?


Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is
automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the
world?

Somehow, I don't think that you are correct.

--
Cheers,

John B.


I often wonder, after hearing ex-pat Germans complaining about how bad things are in their new country compared to back in Germany, why they left Germany in the first place.

Cheers
 




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