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#21
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Problems with upper gears
On 9/9/2019 8:59 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AK wrote: On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 7:45:43 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, 9 September 2019 12:04:07 UTC-4, AK wrote: On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 1:38:53 AM UTC-5, Chalo wrote: 6 speed freewheel and 8 speed shifter/derailleur are never compatible. 7 and 8 speed are compatible with Campagnolo parts, but for the love of God don't do that. 7 speed Shimano pattern freewheel or cassette and 8 speed Shimano pattern shifting are not compatible, but can be coerced to kinda-sorta work poorly together. There's a 0.2mm difference in gear intervals that stacks up to 1.2mm discrepancy across the extremes. It's likely to make noise. Thanks for the info. So what do I need? Andy What you need to shift a SIX speed INDEX cassette or freewheel is a SIX speed INDEX shifter. Was your original shifter (the one that was replaced) a SIX speed INDEX shifter? If it was a FRICTION shifter then the 8-speed shifter should work IF it has a FRICTION MODE on it besides index. Cheers I talked to the bike shop owner. He will replace the 6 speed freewheel with a new 7 speed at no additional charge. So I guess I will have 3 more gears. :-) Andy 7 speed And if the text upthread is correct, your shifting will still be screwed up because you will be using an 8 speed shifter with a 7 speed cassette. Shimano recommends STi 8 shifters on seven drive trains, having dropped seven STi levers. As Chalo notes, in practice they are only negligibly askew. If you set the index in the center sprocket the variance at both extremes is not discernible. Ditto with Campagnolo rear changers having B screw on the top pivot (old) or on the lower pivot (new). They are not the same, but the difference is very small and setting index in the middle works just fine in our real world. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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Problems with upper gears
On Monday, 9 September 2019 22:41:15 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped Shimano recommends STi 8 shifters on seven drive trains, having dropped seven STi levers. As Chalo notes, in practice they are only negligibly askew. If you set the index in the center sprocket the variance at both extremes is not discernible. Snipped -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 That's exactly what I do and what I said upthread. Another type of shifter that's getting harder and harder to get is one with a friction mode setting as well as index. Cheers |
#23
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Problems with upper gears
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. |
#24
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Problems with upper gears
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. I know the bike shop owner will get my problem fixed. He genuinely wants to fix my problem. I sent a message to the bike shop owner about a new development. He installed an 8 speed indexed shifter. Just throwing this out but.. Maybe he was distracted when he did the work, but installing an 8-speed shifter on a bike with a 6 speed freewheel sounds like a pretty big screw up. I won't be leaving his shop before thoroughly testing the bike. I have learned a lot and I appreciate all the help from this group. Andy |
#25
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Problems with upper gears
On 9/10/2019 5:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. 7 & 8 are very similar. Six is not even close and spacing is visually so different I can't believe anyone would even try it. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#26
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Problems with upper gears
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 20:57:26 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/10/2019 5:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. 7 & 8 are very similar. Six is not even close and spacing is visually so different I can't believe anyone would even try it. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 You'd be surprised at what a person might try if they don't know the differences between things for bicycles. Cheers |
#27
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Problems with upper gears
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:23:03 UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. I know the bike shop owner will get my problem fixed. He genuinely wants to fix my problem. I sent a message to the bike shop owner about a new development. He installed an 8 speed indexed shifter. Just throwing this out but.. Maybe he was distracted when he did the work, but installing an 8-speed shifter on a bike with a 6 speed freewheel sounds like a pretty big screw up.. I won't be leaving his shop before thoroughly testing the bike. I have learned a lot and I appreciate all the help from this group. Andy I'll try again. Was your ORIGINAL SIX-SPEED shifter index? Is the 8-speed shifter capable of being turned to friction or is it strictly index? The point being that if your original shifter was index and the new 8-speed shifter is index only then it will never work. BUT... If the original 6-speed shifter was friction and the new 8-speed shifter can be turned/set to friction mode, then yes it could work with the 6 speed cassette or freewheel.. Cheers |
#28
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Problems with upper gears
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:34:03 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:23:03 UTC-4, AK wrote: On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. I know the bike shop owner will get my problem fixed. He genuinely wants to fix my problem. I sent a message to the bike shop owner about a new development. He installed an 8 speed indexed shifter. Just throwing this out but.. Maybe he was distracted when he did the work, but installing an 8-speed shifter on a bike with a 6 speed freewheel sounds like a pretty big screw up. I won't be leaving his shop before thoroughly testing the bike. I have learned a lot and I appreciate all the help from this group. Andy I'll try again. Was your ORIGINAL SIX-SPEED shifter index? Is the 8-speed shifter capable of being turned to friction or is it strictly index? The point being that if your original shifter was index and the new 8-speed shifter is index only then it will never work. BUT... If the original 6-speed shifter was friction and the new 8-speed shifter can be turned/set to friction mode, then yes it could work with the 6 speed cassette or freewheel. Cheers Patience Grasshopper. :-) Keep in mind that my bike is a Huffy 18 speed Nighthawk Model 56347. The bike is not a top shelf bike, but considering I have logged over 2K miles with it, I am happy with it. I have never been stranded on the road with it. Andy |
#29
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Problems with upper gears
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 01:31:47 UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:34:03 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:23:03 UTC-4, AK wrote: On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. I know the bike shop owner will get my problem fixed. He genuinely wants to fix my problem. I sent a message to the bike shop owner about a new development. He installed an 8 speed indexed shifter. Just throwing this out but.. Maybe he was distracted when he did the work, but installing an 8-speed shifter on a bike with a 6 speed freewheel sounds like a pretty big screw up. I won't be leaving his shop before thoroughly testing the bike. I have learned a lot and I appreciate all the help from this group. Andy I'll try again. Was your ORIGINAL SIX-SPEED shifter index? Is the 8-speed shifter capable of being turned to friction or is it strictly index? The point being that if your original shifter was index and the new 8-speed shifter is index only then it will never work. BUT... If the original 6-speed shifter was friction and the new 8-speed shifter can be turned/set to friction mode, then yes it could work with the 6 speed cassette or freewheel. Cheers Patience Grasshopper. :-) Keep in mind that my bike is a Huffy 18 speed Nighthawk Model 56347. The bike is not a top shelf bike, but considering I have logged over 2K miles with it, I am happy with it. I have never been stranded on the road with it. Andy Patience? Hah, hah. I first asked what your original shifters were back on September 7. Like I've mentioned a few times now; if your original shifters were friction and if your replacement 8-speed shifters have a friction mode then they can be made to work together. Otherwise you need to get either 6-speed shifters or an 8-speed cassette (if your bike uses a cassette and not a freewheel and if the cassette is not a Uniglide one) and an 8-speed chain. Cheers |
#30
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Problems with upper gears
On Wednesday, 11 September 2019 01:31:47 UTC-4, AK wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:34:03 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 19:23:03 UTC-4, AK wrote: On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 5:39:24 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:17:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/8/2019 3:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:43 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: On 9/7/2019 3:00 PM, AK wrote: I recently had my rear derailleur replaced along with new shifters on a 18 speed mountain bike. Shifting in the lower gears is smooth and there is no noise when pedaling. I can shift smoothly into all gears however, there is a "clicking" sound when I am in the upper gears. The bike tech who did the work said he could not find a seven speed shifter and installed an eight speed shifter and told me he would make adjustments so it would work. I have been told this. "It is a problem, but can be fixed by also replacing the freewheel, but I definitely wouldn't be paying for any service from a tech who didn't know this would be a problem." https://imgur.com/a/xF73i91 https://imgur.com/a/5VB6gat The 8 shifter is compatible. Common problems include cable/casing/ferrule issues and rear changer misalignment. It ought to shift well and quietly with all new equipment. This has a new seven chain, new FW and new cable/casing right? Since when is an 8-speed shifter compatible with a 6-speed cassette or freewheel? Cheers Yikes. You're right. I missed that. If it's still a SIX freewheel, there's no way that shifter could work. And by the way, WTF? Six shifters are cheap and plentiful. As are Sevens. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Didn't 6,7 and 8 all have the same spacing? So that you could use a 8 spd shifter on a 6 speed? I would turn my daughter's 6 speed downtube shifter to friction and let her shift the 8 until I found some brifters. I know the bike shop owner will get my problem fixed. He genuinely wants to fix my problem. I sent a message to the bike shop owner about a new development. He installed an 8 speed indexed shifter. Just throwing this out but.. Maybe he was distracted when he did the work, but installing an 8-speed shifter on a bike with a 6 speed freewheel sounds like a pretty big screw up. I won't be leaving his shop before thoroughly testing the bike. I have learned a lot and I appreciate all the help from this group. Andy I'll try again. Was your ORIGINAL SIX-SPEED shifter index? Is the 8-speed shifter capable of being turned to friction or is it strictly index? The point being that if your original shifter was index and the new 8-speed shifter is index only then it will never work. BUT... If the original 6-speed shifter was friction and the new 8-speed shifter can be turned/set to friction mode, then yes it could work with the 6 speed cassette or freewheel. Cheers Patience Grasshopper. :-) Keep in mind that my bike is a Huffy 18 speed Nighthawk Model 56347. The bike is not a top shelf bike, but considering I have logged over 2K miles with it, I am happy with it. I have never been stranded on the road with it. Andy Okay. I just looked up Huffy 18 speed Nighthawk Model 56347 online. It appears to be a 6-speed freewheel and the Huffy page says it's a twist-grip shifter. Therefore the 8-speed shifter that the shop out on will NOT work. You basically have two chioces. #1 and the cheapest. Get a new 6-speed shifter. You miught find one at a bicycle co-op. Or according to the Huffy page you can order one from them. #2. Keep the 8-speed shifter and buy a 7-speed freewheel and chain. the 8-speed shifter will work with a 7-speed freewheel. Or for more money. Buy a 7-8-9-speed compatible freehub wheel, a cassette with 7 or 8 cogs and a matching chain. Cheers |
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