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#21
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 09:47:21 -0500,
AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2018 4:56 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 18:05:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/21/2018 2:40 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 01:40:46 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote: Any suggestions are welcome. What's your rim strip? I was a long-time Velox user until just this summer when I switched over to FSA rim strips which are much thinner. They make more room for the beads of the tires, rsulting in easier installation and easier seating, especially with the tighter beads on foldable tires. Interesting question. The (Ritchey) wheels came with a yellow plastic rim strip, and a year or so ago I replaced it with basic Velox. I'm not sure I got the right width, but in any case it seems to ride just a bit high on the edges. I can see how this might be a contributor. Mystery solved. Your tire's inner diameter at the bead is the same size as your rim at the painted line he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/rimpins.jpg Any occlusion such as a fat rim liner can (and in your case probably did) wreck that very precise fit. Yes, I am now thinking this is likely to the issue. Last time I changed the tube and tire, I noticed the tape was not well centered at all points, so I reapplied it. It still seemed hard to keep it far enough down in the well. Furthermore, the fact that I changed the strip on both wheels and am having the same problem on both also points this direction. I will report back after I've had time to work on it. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
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#22
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:17:30 +0000 (UTC),
Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 09:47:21 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2018 4:56 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 18:05:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/21/2018 2:40 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 01:40:46 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote: Any suggestions are welcome. What's your rim strip? I was a long-time Velox user until just this summer when I switched over to FSA rim strips which are much thinner. They make more room for the beads of the tires, rsulting in easier installation and easier seating, especially with the tighter beads on foldable tires. Interesting question. The (Ritchey) wheels came with a yellow plastic rim strip, and a year or so ago I replaced it with basic Velox. I'm not sure I got the right width, but in any case it seems to ride just a bit high on the edges. I can see how this might be a contributor. Mystery solved. Your tire's inner diameter at the bead is the same size as your rim at the painted line he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/rimpins.jpg Any occlusion such as a fat rim liner can (and in your case probably did) wreck that very precise fit. Yes, I am now thinking this is likely to the issue. Last time I changed the tube and tire, I noticed the tape was not well centered at all points, so I reapplied it. It still seemed hard to keep it far enough down in the well. Furthermore, the fact that I changed the strip on both wheels and am having the same problem on both also points this direction. I will report back after I've had time to work on it. Okay, Ifinally got some time to work on these wheels. By the way, they are labeled Ritchey WCS Zeta II. I took off the front tire and tube, took out the 16 mm Velox, put on the original yellow plastic Ritchey rim strip, and reinstalled the tire. It was a bit easier to mount, but still had a low spot. Next, I took that tire off, and put on the first one I'd had trouble with. It was even more out of round. I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. I put took that tire off and put the other back on. It made a pretty good pop/ping when it was nearly fully pressured (100 psi), but still had that one low spot. This aligns with an area of the tire sidewall that is further into the rim, just like what I described two paragraphs above. I beat on and bounced this wheel, but couldn't get that last bit of tire fully seated. So I plan to order some different tires, and will ride on this out of round one until they come (and I can get them installed). I've already ridden many hundreds of miles with these out of round tires, so don't expect any problems (other than the mildly aggravating hoping). So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#23
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:17:30 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 09:47:21 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/22/2018 4:56 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 18:05:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/21/2018 2:40 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 01:40:46 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote: Any suggestions are welcome. What's your rim strip? I was a long-time Velox user until just this summer when I switched over to FSA rim strips which are much thinner. They make more room for the beads of the tires, rsulting in easier installation and easier seating, especially with the tighter beads on foldable tires. Interesting question. The (Ritchey) wheels came with a yellow plastic rim strip, and a year or so ago I replaced it with basic Velox. I'm not sure I got the right width, but in any case it seems to ride just a bit high on the edges. I can see how this might be a contributor. Mystery solved. Your tire's inner diameter at the bead is the same size as your rim at the painted line he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/rimpins.jpg Any occlusion such as a fat rim liner can (and in your case probably did) wreck that very precise fit. Yes, I am now thinking this is likely to the issue. Last time I changed the tube and tire, I noticed the tape was not well centered at all points, so I reapplied it. It still seemed hard to keep it far enough down in the well. Furthermore, the fact that I changed the strip on both wheels and am having the same problem on both also points this direction. I will report back after I've had time to work on it. Okay, Ifinally got some time to work on these wheels. By the way, they are labeled Ritchey WCS Zeta II. I took off the front tire and tube, took out the 16 mm Velox, put on the original yellow plastic Ritchey rim strip, and reinstalled the tire. It was a bit easier to mount, but still had a low spot. Next, I took that tire off, and put on the first one I'd had trouble with. It was even more out of round. I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. I put took that tire off and put the other back on. It made a pretty good pop/ping when it was nearly fully pressured (100 psi), but still had that one low spot. This aligns with an area of the tire sidewall that is further into the rim, just like what I described two paragraphs above. I beat on and bounced this wheel, but couldn't get that last bit of tire fully seated. So I plan to order some different tires, and will ride on this out of round one until they come (and I can get them installed). I've already ridden many hundreds of miles with these out of round tires, so don't expect any problems (other than the mildly aggravating hoping). So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#24
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:17:30 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 09:47:21 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Your tire's inner diameter at the bead is the same size as your rim at the painted line he http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/rimpins.jpg Any occlusion such as a fat rim liner can (and in your case probably did) wreck that very precise fit. Yes, I am now thinking this is likely to the issue. Last time I changed the tube and tire, I noticed the tape was not well centered at all points, so I reapplied it. It still seemed hard to keep it far enough down in the well. Furthermore, the fact that I changed the strip on both wheels and am having the same problem on both also points this direction. I will report back after I've had time to work on it. Okay, Ifinally got some time to work on these wheels. By the way, they are labeled Ritchey WCS Zeta II. I took off the front tire and tube, took out the 16 mm Velox, put on the original yellow plastic Ritchey rim strip, and reinstalled the tire. It was a bit easier to mount, but still had a low spot. Next, I took that tire off, and put on the first one I'd had trouble with. It was even more out of round. I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. I put took that tire off and put the other back on. It made a pretty good pop/ping when it was nearly fully pressured (100 psi), but still had that one low spot. This aligns with an area of the tire sidewall that is further into the rim, just like what I described two paragraphs above. I beat on and bounced this wheel, but couldn't get that last bit of tire fully seated. So I plan to order some different tires, and will ride on this out of round one until they come (and I can get them installed). I've already ridden many hundreds of miles with these out of round tires, so don't expect any problems (other than the mildly aggravating hoping). So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. Okay, thanks for the suggestions. I will give it one more go (probably not before the coming weekend) and let you know what happens. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#25
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500,
AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: ...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up" the tire. How is this done? I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the benchtop. Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the tire only partially inflated? -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#26
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 11:22:27 AM UTC-4, Theodore Heise wrote:
Snipped I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up" the tire. How is this done? I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the benchtop. Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the tire only partially inflated? -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA What I did when I had this problem a long time ago was: 1. Made sure the rim tape was not sitting where the tire bead goes 2. partially inflated the tire 3. used washing up fluid/dish soap to lubricate the rim and the tire bead where the low spot was 4. pumped up the tire and watched to see if the bead popped up on its own 5. if the tire bead did not pop up on its own I let some air out of the tire and then squeezed the tire from each side with one hand a worked the tire from side to side to see if that caused the tire bead to seat properly. 6. if t hat didn't work I then used a pair of vice grips to hold the tire sides squeezed together a bit and then pumped up the tire whilst pulling up on the vice grips. I never had a tire that would not seat after doing those things. Good luck and cheers |
#27
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: ...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up" the tire. How is this done? I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the benchtop. Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the tire only partially inflated? Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the tire up and away from the rim. There are tools for that: https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg but strong hands alone will seat most. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#28
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500,
AMuzi wrote: On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: ...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up" the tire. How is this done? I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the benchtop. Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the tire only partially inflated? Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the tire up and away from the rim. Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not? There are tools for that: https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg but strong hands alone will seat most. Thanks (and to sir) for the advice. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#29
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Continental Ultra Sport tires
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 10:23:19 AM UTC-7, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 11:45:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 10/1/2018 10:22 AM, Theodore Heise wrote: On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:54:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/30/2018 7:59 PM, Theodore Heise wrote: ...I noticed that a line on the tire was spaced about 2 mm from the rim most of the way around, but right at the rim in a place (or two?). My conclusion is that the tire is enough too small that the bead is pulled inward and doesn't completely seat in those areas. I tried bouncing the wheel, and even smacking the sidewall against the top of my workbench, but could not convince it to pop out into place. So the rim strip was a minor factor, but I think the basic problem is mismatch between tire and rim diameter/circumference. Could be. Did you use any lubricant for tire mounting? Just as car/truck tires are seated using soapy water (or branded similar 'tire seat' fluids) a schpritz of spray wax can often help here. Spin rim in midair, spray it, mount tire. Also you can pull up a tire from a low spot to a satisfying 'pop' as it seats. Bouncing a wheel won't move anything. I had a follow-up question on this suggestion to "pull up" the tire. How is this done? I attempted something like this (I think) by whacking the inflated tire sideways onto my workbench (as mentioned above). More specifically, I did this by holding the wheel at the 7 and 5 o'clock positions with each hand just above the workbench top, and swinging the 12:00 position of the wheel downward so the tire sidewall made contact with the benchtop. Maybe I need a different approach, or to do this with the tire only partially inflated? Grab the tire firmly where it's low. Squeeze/push/roll the tire up and away from the rim. Does it matter whether it's fully inflated or not? There are tools for that: https://www.ison-distribution.com/im...l/2br-tst1.jpg but strong hands alone will seat most. Thanks (and to sir) for the advice. -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA What all this sounds to me like is that you have "two-way" or "tubeless" rims and Continental tires will not work properly with those wheels. They are clincher tires. Continental is presently working on tubeless tires and they are expected to be released next spring. |
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