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  #21  
Old September 1st 17, 05:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,769
Default Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.


You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.


Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.


-- Jay Beattie.


Ads
  #22  
Old September 1st 17, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.


You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.


Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.


Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.
  #23  
Old September 1st 17, 07:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Jobst

On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.


Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.


Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.


IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old September 1st 17, 09:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,769
Default Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.


IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.


Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose.

Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less.

I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book.

I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments.


http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season.

Unlike you, I pay my own medical insurance premium and have done so for over 20 years -- and I'm not talking about a nickel-and-dime Medigap or Advantage plan. I'm talking big premiums -- more than I paid for my son's annual tuition at University of Utah. Repealing ACA won't reduce the premiums for my type of coverage and, according to the CBO, it will drive them up by 40%. The market is clearly broken.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #25  
Old September 1st 17, 10:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Jobst

On 9/1/2017 4:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.


Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose.

Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less.

I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book.

I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments.


http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season.


I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give
links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he
believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation.

I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer
treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom.

Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on,
Tom! It's your move! :-)


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #26  
Old September 1st 17, 11:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 1:17:46 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.


Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose.

Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less.

I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book.

I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments.


http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season.

Unlike you, I pay my own medical insurance premium and have done so for over 20 years -- and I'm not talking about a nickel-and-dime Medigap or Advantage plan. I'm talking big premiums -- more than I paid for my son's annual tuition at University of Utah. Repealing ACA won't reduce the premiums for my type of coverage and, according to the CBO, it will drive them up by 40%. The market is clearly broken.


I am using my own private medical insurance since it was cheaper than the insurance to cover the medicare gap. And it is only about $1,500 a year or perhaps slightly more. And I have received no complaints or rising rates despite this last year costing them over $15,000. It is unlikely that I will have any medical bills for many years except for my 9 month inspection from my neurologist and the twice a year from my GP.
  #27  
Old September 1st 17, 11:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Jobst

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 4:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 11:09:25 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

IOW, Tom doesn't want to measure results. Things like duration of life,
infant mortality, percent of GDP devoted to paying for health care, cost
of health care to employers, etc. mean nothing. He wants to count
doctors - or anything that can partially justify his fundamentalist
beliefs.

Regarding efficiency - One of those sites had this: "On indicators of
efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K.
and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor
performance on measures of national health expenditures and
administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles,
avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing."

I've recounted the months of bills, phone calls and arguments I went
through to avoid paying for blood tests that were supposed to be covered
by our insurance. The bills had been submitted by the lab to the insurer
at least three times. I suspect at least 15 man-hours (not counting
mine) were spent investigating why this obviously qualified bill was
being rejected. Ultimately it was covered, but the time cost for the lab
and the insurance company were significant.

All other westernized countries do better. Free market fundamentalists
can't admit that.

Let me guess - you're back to wearing white makeup, floppy shoes and a red nose.

Mortality rates do NOT tell you general health. It tells you life expectancy. The life expectancy in the USA is much lower than other countries not because Americans have shorter lifespans but because the statistics are derived from the population as a whole meaning that they count illegal aliens, Chinese and Indian immigrants whose lifespans are a great deal less.

I don't think that the Isle of Mann even has a doctor and they report long lifespans. Is that supposed to mean that doctors aren't required or that they run to the mainland for treatments? Or maybe living where they can get decent food and live a stressless life adds to lifespans? And of course your claim that lifespan in general counts and not the ability to cure dangerous medical conditions because you have easier and faster access to medical treatments doesn't count in your book.

I'll tell you something ass - Canada has a socialized medical system. And the WAITING period for most severe conditions is longer than the lifespan of people with those conditions. That's why all of the US hospitals near the Canadian borders have long lists of Canadians there for treatments.


http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

When demand is inelastic, you need market regulation -- otherwise we'd be paying $10 a therm for natural gas during the heating season.


I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give
links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he
believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation.

I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer
treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom.

Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on,
Tom! It's your move! :-)


You know, the last time I said that on a news group several people like you told me I was full of **** and several nurses from the northwest and several more from around Toronto said the same thing as I did and then a patient popped in with his experience which was a 12 month wait for a cancer that gave him a maximum lifespan of three months. And it was just a tumor sitting on his heart. So he came to the US and it was gone in one operation and a month of chemo.

But you want something from a site that you'll believe. And that includes a site that proved to be almost 300% incorrect. But IT'S IN WRITING. Your age is really beginning to show.
  #28  
Old September 1st 17, 11:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 6,950
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On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give
links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he
believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation.

I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer
treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom.

Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on,
Tom! It's your move! :-)


You know, the last time I said that on a news group several people like you told me I was full of **** and several nurses from the northwest and several more from around Toronto said the same thing as I did and then a patient popped in with his experience which was a 12 month wait for a cancer that gave him a maximum lifespan of three months. And it was just a tumor sitting on his heart. So he came to the US and it was gone in one operation and a month of chemo.

But you want something from a site that you'll believe. And that includes a site that proved to be almost 300% incorrect. But IT'S IN WRITING. Your age is really beginning to show.


Good example! Another anecdote that you believe you remember. No link to online
information.

Since you like anecdotes: My Canadian relative had to wait months for his wife's
cancer treatment. He complained. But as it turned out, the doctors were right,
the cure was complete, and it seems to have cost less than American treatment
would have cost.

Regarding Canada, Jay gave this: http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

There's also this: https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/...c-health-care/

And this: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11..._13057392.html

But we have at least a couple Canadians posting here. We should let them speak,
I guess.

All of which has nothing to do with your previous claims of astronomical
increases in food prices between 2006 and 2016. I posted data showing that was
likely false. You've posted nothing but "memories," Tom. Can you _never_ find
data to back your alleged memories?

- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old September 1st 17, 11:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
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On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:40:49 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give
links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he
believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation.

I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer
treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom.

Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on,
Tom! It's your move! :-)


You know, the last time I said that on a news group several people like you told me I was full of **** and several nurses from the northwest and several more from around Toronto said the same thing as I did and then a patient popped in with his experience which was a 12 month wait for a cancer that gave him a maximum lifespan of three months. And it was just a tumor sitting on his heart. So he came to the US and it was gone in one operation and a month of chemo.

But you want something from a site that you'll believe. And that includes a site that proved to be almost 300% incorrect. But IT'S IN WRITING. Your age is really beginning to show.


Good example! Another anecdote that you believe you remember. No link to online
information.

Since you like anecdotes: My Canadian relative had to wait months for his wife's
cancer treatment. He complained. But as it turned out, the doctors were right,
the cure was complete, and it seems to have cost less than American treatment
would have cost.

Regarding Canada, Jay gave this: http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

There's also this: https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/...c-health-care/

And this: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11..._13057392.html

But we have at least a couple Canadians posting here. We should let them speak,
I guess.

All of which has nothing to do with your previous claims of astronomical
increases in food prices between 2006 and 2016. I posted data showing that was
likely false. You've posted nothing but "memories," Tom. Can you _never_ find
data to back your alleged memories?


Frank - you really are one of those women's private parts.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...or-health-care

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/20...s-health-care/

Here is one of the far left wing sources that you prefer:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0db570d3778ff

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...adian-patients

All of this was readily available and if you didn't want to believe me you COULD have looked it up yourself. But instead you prefer being a F-ing asshole and pretending the world isn't like it is.
  #30  
Old September 2nd 17, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,346
Default Jobst

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10...o-deliver.html

https://blog.ingleinternational.com/...r-health-care/

https://books.google.com/books?id=XB... als.&f=false

https://www.managedcaremag.com/node/6453

But what did Frank mention? One of the only articles claiming that this Canadian's heading to America is a myth.

I guess we can see where the myths originate.
 




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