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  #21  
Old April 12th 05, 01:15 AM
Tamyka Bell
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Carl Brewer wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:57:21 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

You had a coach telling you not to do overload intervals and all
E1 (low intensity aerobic) work? What stage of training was this?


Ummm, preseason? About the same time I was starting to put speedwork into
my runs. His philosophy was that seeing as I was such an inexperienced
cyclist I should just keep doing the long miles. I was training for
half/full ironman.


I usually get my riders doing 1-3 months of base, depending
on their goals and where they are when I start with them,
but the base period includes some intensity work - we don't
want to lose -all- our VO2max gains NFI how that would
translate to tri training though.


Yeah, I really think it was just 'cause I was so bad at cycling. Of
course, in every other sport I've done, I've taken shortcuts,
fast-tracked training, and it seems to work. I'll be starting on my own
program for next season and yep, intensity sessions from the start!

snip
Fair enough. By the same token, football (any code) is therefore
also specific, you have to train everything. Imagine if you
couldn't handpass/tackle/roll a maul. You'd suck I


Hey, you've just figured out why I suck! Thanks!

think that runners may suggest that football training is
a lot less specific than pure running training though.

Reminds me of a sign outside a doctor's surgery

"We specialise in mens *and* womens health".

Maybe I should rephrase, tri training involves training for
more than one macro dicipline, but using the same energy
pathways - ie: you don't have to sprint and recover, you
just grind away until you get to the end.


I resent that statement, _I_ avoid grinding wherever I can, I definitely
just spin until I get to the end. If it gets too hard I pull over and
hail a sagwagon/taxi/train/parent. :P

It trains the high speed, high power stuff you need to
come over the top at the end of a race. You can simulate it
by doing downhill sprints, where you use the gradient to
get the same effect as the draft from the motorbike.


Do you sprint down the hill or once you get to the bottom of the hill or
both?


Both, depending on the hill. I'm mainly working on acceleration
into a draft (the downhill simulates this) and top speed, which is
the bit once you hit the flat. It's not ideal, but it's a lot easier
to organise than a motorbike and a bit of closed road.


Nah, it sounds good.

As for hill sprints... if training specificity is the goal... why hill
sprints? Do races normally finish uphills? Hill climbing form is usually
different to form on the flat, right?

Yes, but the body position for a full power sprint is the same, and
that's what hill sprints are - they're not on the tops with your
arse hanging over the back. Maybe if I removed the word


Ha ha, good point. Didn't think of that. I never sprint on the flat, obv,
it's just not worth it over 180 km when you've still gotta do that r
thing.


Tris only need to work on MSS, obviously.


Ha ha you haven't seen how much drafting goes on in big races,
obviously. And the sprinting is therefore important, so you can pull
away from the pack when you see the draft busters coming...

But _I_ don't do that... so no sprints for me, just lactate threshold
trg...

snip

I had a closer look at the slope this morning (anyone else still
reading this who's been to the Kew crit will know the hill
I'm using, riding clockwise around the Studley Park Loop), I think
it's closer to 5% or less at the part I use, so the position is
pretty close to flat ground.


That makes sense then. It's not a huge incline but enough to do the job.
How long is the hill?

When you start training, you increase innervation, right?
But you don't
have cycling nerves and weight training nerves. They're the same nerves,
you just activate them in a different pattern. That can be trained once
you have initial gains.

Yes, but it's more efficient (time) to train them "right" the first
time, ie: strength training on the bike.


Not if it's faster to train them and then convert them. Which is true for
me.


Again, you're doing a different sport, and I suspect, not doing
strength training on your bike much or at all. Have you ever
done it? Given that you're also running, which uses the


Yep. I'm just not cut out for it, I think. I'm built like a fighter, not
a runner, definitely not a cyclist. But it comes in handy when drivers
cut me off...

snip

They're around $150, that's three cheapo tyres


that's $66 for me! (Sponsors...)


Tyres or SPD-SLs for $66?


Three cheapo tyres for $66.

snip about little bum muscles and injury
Again, relevant if there's an existing weakness, but probably not
for most riders.


for most _very very good_ riders.


Not in my experience, and most of my riders
are not "very very good"[*], they're late entry (not juniors)
adults with backgrounds in other sports. One hesitates
to suggest that if you look at triathletes riding, you may think


one did _not_ show much hesitation there...

that everyone that rides a bike, can't ride a bike There's


....grrrrr...

also the nature of competitive bike racing, which is
to a certain extent self-selecting for people who can


I don't know if so much that's _self_-selecting...

pedal well. I suspect this may be less of a factor in
triathlete populations, as us roadies are a bunch of
elitist snobs


....bingo! :P ha ha ha ha

and triathletes will take anyone they can get.


I think that cycling does not lend itself to non-club members, whereas
triathlon gets lots of individuals who don't have coaches, hence seeing
the poor-form people. Some of us actually started out by accepting that
we couldn't swim or cycle and found coaches who would teach us some
technique!

[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!


(Are they bigger than you? )

Tam
Ads
  #22  
Old April 12th 05, 02:10 AM
Carl Brewer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:15:21 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

I usually get my riders doing 1-3 months of base, depending
on their goals and where they are when I start with them,
but the base period includes some intensity work - we don't
want to lose -all- our VO2max gains NFI how that would
translate to tri training though.


Yeah, I really think it was just 'cause I was so bad at cycling. Of
course, in every other sport I've done, I've taken shortcuts,
fast-tracked training, and it seems to work. I'll be starting on my own
program for next season and yep, intensity sessions from the start!


I'm not sure if you're taking the ****, or serious here

snip
Fair enough. By the same token, football (any code) is therefore
also specific, you have to train everything. Imagine if you
couldn't handpass/tackle/roll a maul. You'd suck I


Hey, you've just figured out why I suck! Thanks!

think that runners may suggest that football training is
a lot less specific than pure running training though.

Reminds me of a sign outside a doctor's surgery

"We specialise in mens *and* womens health".

Maybe I should rephrase, tri training involves training for
more than one macro dicipline, but using the same energy
pathways - ie: you don't have to sprint and recover, you
just grind away until you get to the end.


I resent that statement, _I_ avoid grinding wherever I can, I definitely
just spin until I get to the end. If it gets too hard I pull over and
hail a sagwagon/taxi/train/parent. :P


I was only gently stirring, you bite too easily

I refer to any TT as a grind, not necessarily low cadence,
just a long .. grind .. to the end. It's not like you're monitoring
who's up the road in a break, if the people in your bunch are
working, who's the sprinter you want as a leadout, if the hill
5km before the end will drop you, where that bloody strong
time trialist is who you know is going to do a late attack and
try and solo in, if you're in the right leadout train, where the
corner is that has that bump just before it that you won't want
to get boxed in on etrc etc






Tris only need to work on MSS, obviously.


Ha ha you haven't seen how much drafting goes on in big races,
obviously. And the sprinting is therefore important, so you can pull
away from the pack when you see the draft busters coming...


Except that the usual place a tri is won is the run (wouldn't
it make the sport a -lot- more interesting if they
drew the order of the parts out of a hat, like the way
it's done for surf lifesaving ironman events?) so
a few metres here and there aren't going to affect
the results. The race officials are going to watch the
leaders more than the plebs, so they won't get
away with it anyway?

But _I_ don't do that... so no sprints for me, just lactate threshold
trg...

snip

I had a closer look at the slope this morning (anyone else still
reading this who's been to the Kew crit will know the hill
I'm using, riding clockwise around the Studley Park Loop), I think
it's closer to 5% or less at the part I use, so the position is
pretty close to flat ground.


That makes sense then. It's not a huge incline but enough to do the job.
How long is the hill?


The sprint takes about 25 seconds, and about 20 pedal strokes
in a 53:14 on 700c wheels. So it's ~20 reps

Not in my experience, and most of my riders
are not "very very good"[*], they're late entry (not juniors)
adults with backgrounds in other sports. One hesitates
to suggest that if you look at triathletes riding, you may think


one did _not_ show much hesitation there...

that everyone that rides a bike, can't ride a bike There's


...grrrrr...


You bite -way- too easily Tam

also the nature of competitive bike racing, which is
to a certain extent self-selecting for people who can


I don't know if so much that's _self_-selecting...


It's very self selecting (the sport, not the people). If
you can't ride well, you're not going to do very well at
the sport, and you'll go do something else. *maybe*
coaching helps those that have problems, and I
have to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds me
here

The people I have experience with have usually already started
racing, and decided to try and improve. They've self-selected in
that regard, and they're not chumps who can't ride. If they
went along to their first race and just got totally blown off the back
they'd have gone and played squash/tennis/couch lotto.

pedal well. I suspect this may be less of a factor in
triathlete populations, as us roadies are a bunch of
elitist snobs


...bingo! :P ha ha ha ha

and triathletes will take anyone they can get.


I think that cycling does not lend itself to non-club members, whereas
triathlon gets lots of individuals who don't have coaches, hence seeing
the poor-form people. Some of us actually started out by accepting that
we couldn't swim or cycle and found coaches who would teach us some
technique!


The vast majority of cycle racers aren't coached. I have a
vested interest in changing this, so my opinions are not
unbiased

Also, re the club thing, in my experience, road racers
and crit riders, as opposed to trackies, don't get that
much out of the club environment. Trackies are
all at the same place at the same time, and get a lot
of coaching etc (either by peers or actual coaches)
but the roadies are very much more on their own, unless
they want to troll back and forth down beach rd in bunches
doing the wrong thing for them at the time.

But, as we've mentioned in another thread, tris are culturally
*very* different to road races. You can't get dropped
from a bunch if there is no bunch, and you can always look
at improving your times, which is a less variable measure
than being able to hang onto a road race bunch. Thus,
you can (usually) take something home from every tri
you do, but getting spat out the back of a road race
bunch is a heartbreaking experience that few have the
fortitude to keep coming back for. There's
no-one cheering for me when I roll in 30 minutes after the
bunch at a Lang Lang (hilly!) road race. Road racing is
*not* a nice sport like that. In that way, it's a very
selective sport. We're lucky in Oz, in Europe
there's no grades in amateur bike races, so if you're
not good enough to hang onto the semipros, you watch it on
TV.


[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!


(Are they bigger than you? )


No, I'm coaching them, and they read this newsgroup, and
fortunatly, they both have robust senses of humour and,
they're bigger than me!

  #23  
Old April 12th 05, 02:29 AM
Tamyka Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:15:21 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

I usually get my riders doing 1-3 months of base, depending
on their goals and where they are when I start with them,
but the base period includes some intensity work - we don't
want to lose -all- our VO2max gains NFI how that would
translate to tri training though.


Yeah, I really think it was just 'cause I was so bad at cycling. Of
course, in every other sport I've done, I've taken shortcuts,
fast-tracked training, and it seems to work. I'll be starting on my own
program for next season and yep, intensity sessions from the start!


I'm not sure if you're taking the ****, or serious here


Women are so complex. Nah, I was serious.

snip
Fair enough. By the same token, football (any code) is therefore
also specific, you have to train everything. Imagine if you
couldn't handpass/tackle/roll a maul. You'd suck I


Hey, you've just figured out why I suck! Thanks!

think that runners may suggest that football training is
a lot less specific than pure running training though.

Reminds me of a sign outside a doctor's surgery

"We specialise in mens *and* womens health".

Maybe I should rephrase, tri training involves training for
more than one macro dicipline, but using the same energy
pathways - ie: you don't have to sprint and recover, you
just grind away until you get to the end.


I resent that statement, _I_ avoid grinding wherever I can, I definitely
just spin until I get to the end. If it gets too hard I pull over and
hail a sagwagon/taxi/train/parent. :P


I was only gently stirring, you bite too easily


Nah, I bite too hard. :P

I refer to any TT as a grind, not necessarily low cadence,
just a long .. grind .. to the end. It's not like you're monitoring
who's up the road in a break, if the people in your bunch are
working, who's the sprinter you want as a leadout, if the hill
5km before the end will drop you, where that bloody strong
time trialist is who you know is going to do a late attack and
try and solo in, if you're in the right leadout train, where the
corner is that has that bump just before it that you won't want
to get boxed in on etrc etc

Tris only need to work on MSS, obviously.


Ha ha you haven't seen how much drafting goes on in big races,
obviously. And the sprinting is therefore important, so you can pull
away from the pack when you see the draft busters coming...


Except that the usual place a tri is won is the run (wouldn't


Are you sure about that? Strong cyclists tend to place better overall
than strong runners. Except Lisa Bentley. I love that woman, she's my
hero, she rocks! But the placings, in age group races, tend to be more
similar to those of the cycle leg moreso than the run leg. There's a few
outliers like me, who lose 20 minutes on the cycle and gain it back on
the run (over a half ironman).

it make the sport a -lot- more interesting if they
drew the order of the parts out of a hat, like the way
it's done for surf lifesaving ironman events?) so


It's not really practical though, because of:
1 wetsuits for cold-weather races, it'd be stupid to have to put them ON
as part of the race
2 the difficulty of monitoring swim safety if people are getting into
the water at random times, in particular if all the blood is in their
legs most people can't swim!
3 the impossibility of preventing drafting when thousands of athletes
start cycling at exactly the same time

Benefits would of course be a nice cool swim after doing a horror cycle
or run leg...

I think the swim leg breaks up the course really well, so it's
appropriate to be first.

a few metres here and there aren't going to affect
the results. The race officials are going to watch the
leaders more than the plebs, so they won't get
away with it anyway?


Works in theory... however the reality is a little different over a 90
km loop. And the plebs are agegroupers, who are racing against others in
their age group, so even if half the race is ahead of them, they might
win, and therefore might cheat, and are likely to draft.

snip

I had a closer look at the slope this morning (anyone else still
reading this who's been to the Kew crit will know the hill
I'm using, riding clockwise around the Studley Park Loop), I think
it's closer to 5% or less at the part I use, so the position is
pretty close to flat ground.


That makes sense then. It's not a huge incline but enough to do the job.
How long is the hill?


The sprint takes about 25 seconds, and about 20 pedal strokes
in a 53:14 on 700c wheels. So it's ~20 reps

Not in my experience, and most of my riders
are not "very very good"[*], they're late entry (not juniors)
adults with backgrounds in other sports. One hesitates
to suggest that if you look at triathletes riding, you may think


one did _not_ show much hesitation there...

that everyone that rides a bike, can't ride a bike There's


...grrrrr...


You bite -way- too easily Tam


Yeah. Built like a fighter, thinks like a fighter... hey, where's
aus.b!tch?!!

also the nature of competitive bike racing, which is
to a certain extent self-selecting for people who can


I don't know if so much that's _self_-selecting...


It's very self selecting (the sport, not the people). If
you can't ride well, you're not going to do very well at
the sport, and you'll go do something else. *maybe*
coaching helps those that have problems, and I
have to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds me
here


Some people get pleasure from a sport they're not great at and that
they'll never achieve high levels at. Like me and high jump, me and rock
climbing, me and cycling...

The people I have experience with have usually already started
racing, and decided to try and improve. They've self-selected in
that regard, and they're not chumps who can't ride. If they
went along to their first race and just got totally blown off the back
they'd have gone and played squash/tennis/couch lotto.


It happened to me. I got over it. I hate squash. You have just described
to me people who can't hack losing. People like that bore me. Sometimes
you lose.

pedal well. I suspect this may be less of a factor in
triathlete populations, as us roadies are a bunch of
elitist snobs


...bingo! :P ha ha ha ha

and triathletes will take anyone they can get.


I think that cycling does not lend itself to non-club members, whereas
triathlon gets lots of individuals who don't have coaches, hence seeing
the poor-form people. Some of us actually started out by accepting that
we couldn't swim or cycle and found coaches who would teach us some
technique!


The vast majority of cycle racers aren't coached. I have a
vested interest in changing this, so my opinions are not
unbiased

Also, re the club thing, in my experience, road racers
and crit riders, as opposed to trackies, don't get that
much out of the club environment. Trackies are
all at the same place at the same time, and get a lot
of coaching etc (either by peers or actual coaches)
but the roadies are very much more on their own, unless
they want to troll back and forth down beach rd in bunches
doing the wrong thing for them at the time.

But, as we've mentioned in another thread, tris are culturally
*very* different to road races. You can't get dropped
from a bunch if there is no bunch, and you can always look
at improving your times, which is a less variable measure
than being able to hang onto a road race bunch. Thus,
you can (usually) take something home from every tri
you do, but getting spat out the back of a road race
bunch is a heartbreaking experience that few have the
fortitude to keep coming back for. There's


I'm going back for it! Yeah, bring it on. Of course, it's a bit harsh
expecting two girls to keep up with lotsa boys including people wearing
australia jerseys...

no-one cheering for me when I roll in 30 minutes after the
bunch at a Lang Lang (hilly!) road race. Road racing is
*not* a nice sport like that. In that way, it's a very
selective sport. We're lucky in Oz, in Europe
there's no grades in amateur bike races, so if you're
not good enough to hang onto the semipros, you watch it on
TV.



[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!


(Are they bigger than you? )


No, I'm coaching them, and they read this newsgroup, and
fortunatly, they both have robust senses of humour and,
they're bigger than me!


Tee hee.

Have a great day (I'll be off to the other work soon... gotta remember
to ask my boss if I can do the race in 2 weeks...)
  #24  
Old April 12th 05, 02:40 AM
DaveB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

Carl Brewer wrote:


[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!


(Are they bigger than you? )



No, I'm coaching them, and they read this newsgroup, and
fortunatly, they both have robust senses of humour and,
they're bigger than me!


Come on Tam, don't you even know the first name of your betrothed?

DaveB "always confused on a Sunday whether to use real names or forum names"
  #25  
Old April 12th 05, 02:59 AM
Absent Husband
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

"The people I have experience with have usually already started
racing, and decided to try and improve. They've self-selected in
that regard, and they're not chumps who can't ride. If they
went along to their first race and just got totally blown off the

back
they'd have gone and played squash/tennis/couch lotto.



It happened to me. I got over it. I hate squash. You have just
described
to me people who can't hack losing. People like that bore me. Sometimes

you lose. "

snip

Definitely agree with Tam on this... I am absolutely CRAP at most
sports - I play/have played cricket, rugby (the one they play in
heaven!), tennis (am actually good at that one...), golf, tri and
cycling...

I am pretty ordinary at most of these, but get a huge buzz out of
getting better (or losing by less!!) each time I have a go. I'm NOT a
very competitive person, in the sense that I love beating other people.
But I am ULTRA-competitive when it comes to beating myself (errr - does
that sound kinda weird...) - nothing gets me going more than posting a
PB (even if I am way down in that bottom quartile of competitors).

And I reckon there are a heap of people out there who are in the same
boat. Just have to look at the hordes that turn out to midweek team
sports events (touch footy, netball, tennis, etc), and the sloggers in
tri and cycling events that make up the bulk of the field.

Cheers all,
Absent Husband (who is now fondly reminiscing about finishing his first
OD triathlon up in Hervey Bay...)

  #26  
Old April 12th 05, 03:27 AM
Carl Brewer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:29:51 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:15:21 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

I usually get my riders doing 1-3 months of base, depending
on their goals and where they are when I start with them,
but the base period includes some intensity work - we don't
want to lose -all- our VO2max gains NFI how that would
translate to tri training though.

Yeah, I really think it was just 'cause I was so bad at cycling. Of
course, in every other sport I've done, I've taken shortcuts,
fast-tracked training, and it seems to work. I'll be starting on my own
program for next season and yep, intensity sessions from the start!


I'm not sure if you're taking the ****, or serious here


Women are so complex. Nah, I was serious.





Except that the usual place a tri is won is the run (wouldn't


Are you sure about that?


No, but all the ones I've sat through the highlights of on
TV have had the winners come from behind and win on the
run leg. My sample is small and I quickly lost interest It
looked like a bunch of runners who couldn't swim or ride.

Many years ago I worked as a duty boat driver at a tri
at Torquay and I dragged a lot of drowning tri's out
of the water that day. I'm sure they could run really well
though!

Strong cyclists tend to place better overall
than strong runners. Except Lisa Bentley. I love that woman, she's my
hero, she rocks! But the placings, in age group races, tend to be more
similar to those of the cycle leg moreso than the run leg. There's a few
outliers like me, who lose 20 minutes on the cycle and gain it back on
the run (over a half ironman).

it make the sport a -lot- more interesting if they
drew the order of the parts out of a hat, like the way
it's done for surf lifesaving ironman events?) so


It's not really practical though, because of:
1 wetsuits for cold-weather races, it'd be stupid to have to put them ON
as part of the race


Why not? It's no dumber than riding 180km in bathers and
wet shoes.

2 the difficulty of monitoring swim safety if people are getting into
the water at random times, in particular if all the blood is in their
legs most people can't swim!


I'd contend that it'd be safer. Having driven rescue boats at
marathon swim events (Pier to Pub etc), the 2 things we
pulled the most people out of the water for was for being
kicked by other swimmers, and cold. Tri's wear wetsuits,
and do a lot of their races in warm climates anyway, so that would
get reduced to a lot lower risk of those problems. You have to
supervise the whole swim course anyway, and if there's
a swimmer in difficulty I'd much rather pull them out when they're
not surrounded by 1,000 other swimmers. I'll be able to see them
for starters!

Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
wouldn't that make it more interesting?


3 the impossibility of preventing drafting when thousands of athletes
start cycling at exactly the same time


True.

Benefits would of course be a nice cool swim after doing a horror cycle
or run leg...

I think the swim leg breaks up the course really well, so it's
appropriate to be first.

a few metres here and there aren't going to affect
the results. The race officials are going to watch the
leaders more than the plebs, so they won't get
away with it anyway?


Works in theory... however the reality is a little different over a 90
km loop. And the plebs are agegroupers, who are racing against others in
their age group, so even if half the race is ahead of them, they might
win, and therefore might cheat, and are likely to draft.


Do tris have roaming officials? Do they enforce the rules on the
spot by dragging anyone they see cheating?

Yeah. Built like a fighter, thinks like a fighter... hey, where's
aus.b!tch?!!


It's next to aus.flame


also the nature of competitive bike racing, which is
to a certain extent self-selecting for people who can

I don't know if so much that's _self_-selecting...


It's very self selecting (the sport, not the people). If
you can't ride well, you're not going to do very well at
the sport, and you'll go do something else. *maybe*
coaching helps those that have problems, and I
have to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds me
here


Some people get pleasure from a sport they're not great at and that
they'll never achieve high levels at. Like me and high jump, me and rock
climbing, me and cycling...


It's not achieving high levels that provides the reward, it's
improvement (for most people anyway). It's much easier to
see improvement in time trials than in complex, dynamic
events.

  #27  
Old April 12th 05, 03:51 AM
DaveB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default %$!#-&*@

Carl Brewer wrote:

Except that the usual place a tri is won is the run (wouldn't


Are you sure about that?



No, but all the ones I've sat through the highlights of on
TV have had the winners come from behind and win on the
run leg. My sample is small and I quickly lost interest It
looked like a bunch of runners who couldn't swim or ride.


I think you'll find that's more likely the case for the pros where it is
draft legal. As long as they can find a bunch to sit on the bike doesn't
count for that much. But for your average age-grouper, ie. no drafting,
the bike is the longest leg timewise so if you are strong in the bike
that is fairly significant.

Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
wouldn't that make it more interesting?


Absolutely, that's why I love the annual enduro event in Melb where you
go through everything twice.

DaveB
  #28  
Old April 13th 05, 02:10 AM
Tamyka Bell
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DaveB wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:


[*] except for Stu and Jason, they're very very good!

(Are they bigger than you? )



No, I'm coaching them, and they read this newsgroup, and
fortunatly, they both have robust senses of humour and,
they're bigger than me!


Come on Tam, don't you even know the first name of your betrothed?


LOL

DaveB "always confused on a Sunday whether to use real names or forum names"


Same for me after the blart ride... not that I've seen one of those in a
while...

Tam
  #29  
Old April 13th 05, 02:22 AM
Tamyka Bell
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Carl Brewer wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:29:51 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:15:21 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

snip

Except that the usual place a tri is won is the run (wouldn't


Are you sure about that?


No, but all the ones I've sat through the highlights of on
TV have had the winners come from behind and win on the
run leg. My sample is small and I quickly lost interest It
looked like a bunch of runners who couldn't swim or ride.

Many years ago I worked as a duty boat driver at a tri
at Torquay and I dragged a lot of drowning tri's out
of the water that day. I'm sure they could run really well
though!


refuses to bite

*chomp*

snip
it make the sport a -lot- more interesting if they
drew the order of the parts out of a hat, like the way
it's done for surf lifesaving ironman events?) so


It's not really practical though, because of:
1 wetsuits for cold-weather races, it'd be stupid to have to put them ON
as part of the race


Why not? It's no dumber than riding 180km in bathers and
wet shoes.


Who does that?

2 the difficulty of monitoring swim safety if people are getting into
the water at random times, in particular if all the blood is in their
legs most people can't swim!


I'd contend that it'd be safer. Having driven rescue boats at
marathon swim events (Pier to Pub etc), the 2 things we
pulled the most people out of the water for was for being
kicked by other swimmers, and cold. Tri's wear wetsuits,


Not all triathlete wear wetsuits. I'm a bit of a swimmer myself, so I
don't bother, yep, even at half ironman distance.

and do a lot of their races in warm climates anyway, so that would


Well Qld triathletes anyway... ask the people who went to the worlds in
NZ what they thought... while they had neoprene swim caps etc on...

get reduced to a lot lower risk of those problems. You have to
supervise the whole swim course anyway, and if there's
a swimmer in difficulty I'd much rather pull them out when they're
not surrounded by 1,000 other swimmers. I'll be able to see them
for starters!


The swim staff would have to be in the water for about twice as long
though. In addition, I'm impressed that you got to be in a boat, because
at most events they're on boards.


Plus, if you have to think about a swim leg while running or riding,
wouldn't that make it more interesting?


The people who win, only think about the leg they're doing RIGHT NOW.

3 the impossibility of preventing drafting when thousands of athletes
start cycling at exactly the same time


True.


Ummmm. How am I supposed to bite at that one?!

Benefits would of course be a nice cool swim after doing a horror cycle
or run leg...

I think the swim leg breaks up the course really well, so it's
appropriate to be first.

a few metres here and there aren't going to affect
the results. The race officials are going to watch the
leaders more than the plebs, so they won't get
away with it anyway?


Works in theory... however the reality is a little different over a 90
km loop. And the plebs are agegroupers, who are racing against others in
their age group, so even if half the race is ahead of them, they might
win, and therefore might cheat, and are likely to draft.


Do tris have roaming officials? Do they enforce the rules on the
spot by dragging anyone they see cheating?


Yep, there's penalty boxes you have to go and stand in for 5 minutes.
The officials hoon around on a motorbike. TA rules even have drafting
distances for the motorbike specified!

Yeah. Built like a fighter, thinks like a fighter... hey, where's
aus.b!tch?!!


It's next to aus.flame


cute

also the nature of competitive bike racing, which is
to a certain extent self-selecting for people who can

I don't know if so much that's _self_-selecting...

It's very self selecting (the sport, not the people). If
you can't ride well, you're not going to do very well at
the sport, and you'll go do something else. *maybe*
coaching helps those that have problems, and I
have to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds me
here


Some people get pleasure from a sport they're not great at and that
they'll never achieve high levels at. Like me and high jump, me and rock
climbing, me and cycling...


It's not achieving high levels that provides the reward, it's
improvement (for most people anyway). It's much easier to
see improvement in time trials than in complex, dynamic
events.


Welcome to triathlon timing - we get splits for each leg... :P

Later

Tam
  #30  
Old April 13th 05, 02:28 AM
Stuart Lamble
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On 2005-04-13, Tamyka Bell wrote:
Carl Brewer wrote:
Tri's wear wetsuits,


Not all triathlete wear wetsuits. I'm a bit of a swimmer myself, so I
don't bother, yep, even at half ironman distance.


Hrm. *looks at his 7mm semi-dry scuba wetsuit*

*considers how easily he could swim in that*

*realises he'd float, but would have trouble getting his arms over*

(Nice wetsuit, just not for swimming in. Swimming, I'd probably want my
3mm, but that one leaks so much, it's hardly worth wearing...)

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
 




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