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#11
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Special for the elderlky
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 23:09:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski scribed:
On 1/30/2021 9:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:26:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: I remember the time a salesman/consultant came to our department to demonstrate a brand new thing called AutoCAD. I suffered through multiple versions of Acad from 2.13 (1985) to R13 (1994). It was becoming too expensive for what I needed so I switched to Autosketch. That was fine until Autodesk ruined it with version 2.1 which changed literally everything. These days, I use KiCad for PCB work and various shareware EDA (electronic design automation) programs. "Changed everything" is my main gripe about software in general. AutoCAD usually made its interface sort of backward compatible - as in, the commands or menu items you were used to were still there somewhere - but the guy in our department who taught that stuff spent a lot of time with each version learning what was new. And yes, it's very expensive. As I recall, they wouldn't even let you skip a version update. If you said "I'll use ACAD 8 for several years before jumping to #11," they charged you for 11 an amount equal to all the updates. I don't need it any more. The last several things I've designed - just home projects for myself and others - I've used Sketchup. It's powerful enough for me, and I find it fun. I do not know what the first E-CAD software I used was, but it was soon after we purchased our first ibm compatible PC, a 286, with 1 Mb of Ram running DOS and the first add- on was a Herc mono card which used the Herc screen as the command screen. Soon after was a chinese E- drafting board/tablet. This was all hobby stuff as I was being paid to support 'midframe' GIS(geographic information systems) and cartography systems. The 'CAD was mainly hand digitising which only lasted til scanners became economical and the pricing of scanning dropped, then it was all on screen. It took a while for electronic data to be cheap in Australia as GovCo believed in user pays and there was not much competition in the private market. As part of on-going education, I did have to do drafting subject with the surveying and it was first subject hand drafting, so I just used a Rotring A3 drafting set I'd purchase when I first went to university 20 years prior. The second subject was E-CAD and we had to learn Autocad(URK!) and Microstation (wonderful). I agree with Franks comments about Autocad being expensive, which is why I never purchased a copy to keep up my contractable skills in it. Thankfully, I recovered a unhindered copy of Microstation for any complex drawing, but weirdly I ended up using CorelDraw for any small simple sketching/drafting as I was also using it to crunch massive survey data sets down for report presentation maps. I too still have all those drafting stencils, pens and pencil, plus the chinese and other E-drafting boards and a pile of plotter pens. I scrapped the A0 plotter when all the MS & Linux drivers went bitmapped instead of HPGL commands. It is murder on the drive belts when a pen plotter is driven like that. About a decade ago, i asked around the extended family if any one want the hand drafting stuff as a few of the relations were in technical studies and no one did, so I guess it will stay here until goes in another clutter reduction. |
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#12
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Special for the elderlky
As part of on-going education, I did have to do drafting subject with the surveying and it was first subject hand drafting, so I just used a Rotring A3 drafting set I'd purchase when I first went to university 20 years prior. The second subject was E-CAD and we had to learn Autocad(URK!) and Microstation (wonderful). I agree with Franks comments about Autocad being expensive, which is why I never purchased a copy to keep up my contractable skills in it. Thankfully, I recovered a unhindered copy of Microstation for any complex drawing, but weirdly I ended up using CorelDraw for any small simple sketching/drafting as I was also using it to crunch massive survey data sets down for report presentation maps. I too still have all those drafting stencils, pens and pencil, plus the chinese and other E-drafting boards and a pile of plotter pens. I scrapped the A0 plotter when all the MS & Linux drivers went bitmapped instead of HPGL commands. It is murder on the drive belts when a pen plotter is driven like that. About a decade ago, i asked around the extended family if any one want the hand drafting stuff as a few of the relations were in technical studies and no one did, so I guess it will stay here until goes in another clutter reduction. The company I work for still has a "head drafter" though in reality he's the documentation control manager. Most of the hands-on work he does is taking solidworks files from the hardware and mechanical engineers and formatting them into 2D drawings for regulatory agency applications/changes/submissions, and creating assembly drawings for the manufacturing departments. When he started with the company many decades ago, he sat at a drafting table. |
#13
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Special for the elderlky
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:53:45 PM UTC, wrote:
Op zaterdag 30 januari 2021 om 16:26:53 UTC+1 schreef Sir Ridesalot: On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:33:10 p.m. UTC-5, John B. wrote: A friend sent me the following. Which may be a bit nostalgic for the, err ... adults here :-) https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/emb...XTAajEzY?rel=0 -- Cheers, John B. Sure shows how much changed in our lifetime. Cheers Yes, we are getting old. If I explain to my younger colleagues that I made my first designs using this https://images.app.goo.gl/dWnmbuwoPbPcgACK6 they shake their heads in unbelief. This is how my desk looks now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iHDmh2vsVpbgEyEx6. Lou I gave a talk to kids in my son's school about the desirability of computer skills and told them my first computer, installed in an air conditioned and humidity-controlled room behind an airlock, had glowing tubes. "You mean like Nixies?" asked a kid holding up a calculator with red-glowing numbers made up of little bars whose name now escapes me, if I ever knew. (It's the sort of detail I leave to techies, who have memories like elephants.) No, I said, like in thermionic tubes, as in the amplifier I built for your dad. The headmaster, who came to sit in, said as he saw me to my car, "Just as well you brought that valve*, or they wouldn't have believed you." It was less than 20 years after we had retired that monstrous computer, which could do less than the calculator the kid held up. * Britspeak for thermionic tube. Andre Jute The last curmudgeon |
#14
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Special for the elderlky
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:03:43 PM UTC, wrote:
Need some accessories? http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-01.jpg http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-02.jpg I still have T-square, triangles, templates, lettering guides, India Ink, vellum, slide rules, books, printed catalogs, etc. they shake their heads in unbelief. This is how my desk looks now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iHDmh2vsVpbgEyEx6. My art teacher taught me the most beautiful calligraphy, but ten years later my mother was returning handwritten letters to me, demanding that I typewrite them because my handwriting was worse than her doctor's. Computers had already done for me. I've bought a small press and am teaching myself engraving. Some of the tools left over from when I did some drafting (as little as I couldn't fob off on a flunky) incidental to industrial design jobs are super-useful, especially the brass templates of shapes and letters and curves. It's actually much more fun than doing art on the iPad Pro with Apple's Pencil (capital C as if Apple invented the pencil -- I bet Koh-i-Noor Hardmuth in České Budějovice will be very surprised to hear that). I inherited the brass formes from the old architect from whom I bought his lovingly kept MG TC -- even as long ago as the 1960s you couldn't get the brass tools any more, only plastic. Not all forward motion is progress. Andre Jute With all the progress in metallurgy, do you know how hard it is today to find a decent penknife? PS You wouldn't happen to have the freehand sketching nib for the Graphos pens, Jeff? |
#15
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Special for the elderlky
On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 6:13:49 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:03:43 PM UTC, wrote: Need some accessories? http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-01.jpg http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-02.jpg I still have T-square, triangles, templates, lettering guides, India Ink, vellum, slide rules, books, printed catalogs, etc. they shake their heads in unbelief. This is how my desk looks now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iHDmh2vsVpbgEyEx6. My art teacher taught me the most beautiful calligraphy, but ten years later my mother was returning handwritten letters to me, demanding that I typewrite them because my handwriting was worse than her doctor's. Computers had already done for me. I've bought a small press and am teaching myself engraving. Some of the tools left over from when I did some drafting (as little as I couldn't fob off on a flunky) incidental to industrial design jobs are super-useful, especially the brass templates of shapes and letters and curves. It's actually much more fun than doing art on the iPad Pro with Apple's Pencil (capital C as if Apple invented the pencil -- I bet Koh-i-Noor Hardmuth in České Budějovice will be very surprised to hear that). I inherited the brass formes from the old architect from whom I bought his lovingly kept MG TC -- even as long ago as the 1960s you couldn't get the brass tools any more, only plastic. Not all forward motion is progress. Andre Jute With all the progress in metallurgy, do you know how hard it is today to find a decent penknife? PS You wouldn't happen to have the freehand sketching nib for the Graphos pens, Jeff? I tried returning letters from my brother's mother in long hand but the manual dexterity for doing that now eludes me. |
#16
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Special for the elderlky
On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 5:16:57 PM UTC, wrote:
On Monday, February 8, 2021 at 6:13:49 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote: On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:03:43 PM UTC, wrote: Need some accessories? http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-01.jpg http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/templates-02.jpg I still have T-square, triangles, templates, lettering guides, India Ink, vellum, slide rules, books, printed catalogs, etc. they shake their heads in unbelief. This is how my desk looks now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/iHDmh2vsVpbgEyEx6. My art teacher taught me the most beautiful calligraphy, but ten years later my mother was returning handwritten letters to me, demanding that I typewrite them because my handwriting was worse than her doctor's. Computers had already done for me. I've bought a small press and am teaching myself engraving. Some of the tools left over from when I did some drafting (as little as I couldn't fob off on a flunky) incidental to industrial design jobs are super-useful, especially the brass templates of shapes and letters and curves. It's actually much more fun than doing art on the iPad Pro with Apple's Pencil (capital C as if Apple invented the pencil -- I bet Koh-i-Noor Hardmuth in České Budějovice will be very surprised to hear that). I inherited the brass formes from the old architect from whom I bought his lovingly kept MG TC -- even as long ago as the 1960s you couldn't get the brass tools any more, only plastic. Not all forward motion is progress. Andre Jute With all the progress in metallurgy, do you know how hard it is today to find a decent penknife? PS You wouldn't happen to have the freehand sketching nib for the Graphos pens, Jeff? I tried returning letters from my brother's mother in long hand but the manual dexterity for doing that now eludes me. .. Doesn't surprise me at all. A few years in front of a keyboard and anyone would lose the skill of handwriting, which after all is learned, as a mother tongue isn't. I suppose my mother thought that, since I worked in the arts, I would maintain that calligraphic skill. But I was a managerial trouble-shooter, in the art departments only when they were in trouble big enough for my boss, the chairman, to notice and assign some of my very expensive time to put them back into prize-winning form. -- AJ |
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