French teams protest by not starting promptly.

On Jul 26, 8:19 pm, "Alex Beascoechea"
wrote:
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in ...





Montesquiou wrote:

"Simon Brooke" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
in message , Montesquiou
('')
wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" a crit dans le message
denews: dtckn4-pk4.__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jf ...
RonSonic wrote:

Could someone explain to me exactly what this was about, please?

I guess I'm neither French nor much of a protestor. What exactly
were
they upset
about and in what way was this action going to affect that
condition?

Same old story. The french teams where protesting against racing at
two speeds. Incidently one of the protesting riders testet positive
the Landis way.

Are you telling he was a French protesting rider ?

No, no. French riders are clean. It was an Italian rider on a French
team.

The obvious solution to cleaning up the Tour is simply to ban all
non-French riders.

I don't agree with you, the problem is not non-French ( or non-German)
but
to ban those from a no-clean federation.
This pro-doped federations are some years late,
US, Kazak, DK are large enough for to have their own tour, it is not ?

Spain? Appart from Operation Puerto, spainish riders and athletes in
genreal a very rare to test positive. Secondly doping seems to be a
non issue in the spanish press.

I am sure they talk much more in DK about doping, and with good
reason, as it seems that all danish cyclist of any note (3 or 4?) have been
big time dopers.

- Bo Hamburger, first to be detected by an EPO test.
- Mr 64. now selfadmited after a decade of hypocrisy.
- Toasted chicken. We'll hear about his adventures in Italy
now that he is a pariath. Maybe he will
confess himself like Jan or writes a book. If he is proven to
have doped he is going to have a problem to live in Garda anylonger.

So there have been three guys you could root for in the last 20 years and
they all have turned out to be spam... I even used to be a MR fan till
this year and I saw his TT (amazing for someone that still TTrials
zigzaging).

As for the spanish guys. Yes, of course some have doped too. Some may have
even stopped recently. I personally feel quite reasured about their
performance this
year. Yes, maybe even Contador has dopend in the past. But if we put his
performance
relative to what was going on in Disco in Lance's years, I think you can be
quite
confident that the kid has some class too. Remeber when the whole Disco
could
hang with Lance and the others till the first part of the last climb? Those
were the good times!!

You know, doping is illegal in Spain (and Italy and France) now , unlike
DK, DE, and other nordic
Hubris zealots. Concentrate on cleaning your own kicken, you need it more
than anybody.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Woah, someones nationalistic buttons got pushed ^^

But the thing is that Fuentes lives in Spain... the thing is that
Spanish Marathon runners started running awfuly fast at the same time
as Perdito and later Miguelon sparkled (the rumors about medical
breakthroughs in spanish unis persited back in the days)... we have
someone as Heras...

I do not for a second doubt any nations cyclists are holier than the
other (Mr Moreau has an impressive Jawline^^), but that there are main
Doping lines in Italy and Spain are almost impossible to deny.

Yes, Contador has class... but Rasmussen who has won Polka dots,
stages and what not (Without being found guilty for dope usage...) is
evil incarnate? Come on.... using double standards makes you look like
a zealot.

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in message
...
Alex Beascoechea wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in message
...
Montesquiou wrote:

"Simon Brooke" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
in message , Montesquiou
('')
wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" a crit dans le
message
de news: ...
RonSonic wrote:


Could someone explain to me exactly what this was about, please?

I guess I'm neither French nor much of a protestor. What exactly
were
they upset
about and in what way was this action going to affect that
condition?

Same old story. The french teams where protesting against racing
at
two speeds. Incidently one of the protesting riders testet
positive
the Landis way.

Are you telling he was a French protesting rider ?

No, no. French riders are clean. It was an Italian rider on a French
team.

The obvious solution to cleaning up the Tour is simply to ban all
non-French riders.


I don't agree with you, the problem is not non-French ( or non-German)
but
to ban those from a no-clean federation.
This pro-doped federations are some years late,
US, Kazak, DK are large enough for to have their own tour, it is not ?

Spain? Appart from Operation Puerto, spainish riders and athletes in
genreal a very rare to test positive. Secondly doping seems to be a
non issue in the spanish press.


I am sure they talk much more in DK about doping, and with good
reason, as it seems that all danish cyclist of any note (3 or 4?) have
been
big time dopers.

- Bo Hamburger, first to be detected by an EPO test.
- Mr 64. now selfadmited after a decade of hypocrisy.
- Toasted chicken.

You can add the belove mentioned names to the list - They have all
either admited, been exposed or convicted for doping. Arround 3/4 of
every dansih pro cyclist up until ca 2001.

Knud Enemark (Died prior to Simpson in 100km TTT at the Olympics)
Mogens Frey
Ole Ritter
Rolf Sørensen
Jesper Skibye
Brian Holm
Kim Andersen
Jesper Worre
Per Pedersen
Jøren V Pedersen
Nicholaj Bo Larsen
Lars Michaelsen
Jørgen Markussen
Thomas Bay
Jacob Piil
Nicky Sørensen
Peter Meinert
Hans Henrik Ørsted
Allan Johansen
Lennie Kristensen
Michael Blautzun
Johnny Weltz

add a large amount of amatour racers, track racers and other pro's
whos names i can't rember or don't know.

The only ones i can reasonably say didn't dope a

Kim Eriksen
Leif Mortensen
Søren Lilholt
Alex Petersen
Kim Markusen
Jens Veggerby
Frank Høj
Kenneth Weltz
Christian Andersen

As for the spanish guys. Yes, of course some have doped too. Some may
have
even stopped recently. I personally feel quite reasured about their
performance this year. Yes, maybe even Contador has dopend in the
past. But if we put his performance relative to what was going on
in Disco in Lance's years, I think you can be quite confident that
the kid has some class too. Remeber when the whole Disco could hang
with Lance and the others till the first part of the last climb? Those
were the good times!!

You know, doping is illegal in Spain (and Italy and France) now , unlike
DK, DE, and other nordic

True, in a nordic courtroom inflicting damage to yourself isn't a
crime. You can dope, do drugs, prostitute yourself and even kill
yourself without beeing prosecuted.

However it's illigal to inflict damage to other people, thereas it's
illigal to distribute or sell drugs, aid other people in doping or
doing drugs and it has been for the majority of a century.

Secondly its imposible to buy a drug or doping product without a
pescription. I'd bet comming from just about any other country in
europe you would find any danish, norwegian or swedish farmecist to be
painfully rigid.

Hubris zealots. Concentrate on cleaning your own kicken, you need it more
than anybody.

Wanna bet that it's waaaayy easier to obtain EPO, kortizone,
growthhormone or testesterone in Spain than obtaining either of those
drugs in Denmark, Norway or Sweeden?

We can even include drugs like penecilin, antibiotica, subatmol or
even codein.


--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.


We know very well that these countries have very strict substance control
legislation and enforcement. But the problem is that it does not work. And
that is why countries like Norway are full or drug/alcohol/gambling
addiction rehab
centers (I know NO relatively well)..You can eventually get what you want
from the government!
Abuse of everykind is cultural.

In Spain you can buy softdrugs (pretty much anywhere and drink alcohol since
infancy,
but you will rarely find completely drunk people in the street or rioting
and
destroying a restaurant as I have seen in Norway

It is the same about the reaction to doping. We know it happens and we
know it is a problem. We agree that if you get caught you are out. But that
is that. We do not make a big bonfire and burn some scapegoats and pull
our hair and ask for cycling to stop and the TdF to be terminated.

The reaction in scandinavia is somehow typical. But
I like to compare it with Germany (that I know pretty well). Till recently
here(DE)
everybody assumed that the German cyclist were the only clean ones (and
that is why they did not have a chance). It is the Spanish, Italians and
other
southern filth that cheat (sounds familiar?). Well, guess what? You turn a
stone in Germany and you find a cheat and doper. But now they want the whole
party (that they were aspiring to control with the help of UCI shut down).

If they want to start to cleanup they should start with the Tour of Germany
that is
nothing but an UCI abortion to try go milk the german cycling market.

"Tuschinski" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 26, 8:19 pm, "Alex Beascoechea"
wrote:
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in
...





Montesquiou wrote:

"Simon Brooke" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
in message , Montesquiou
('')
wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" a crit dans le
message
denews:
dtckn4-pk4.__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jf ...
RonSonic wrote:

Could someone explain to me exactly what this was about, please?

I guess I'm neither French nor much of a protestor. What exactly
were
they upset
about and in what way was this action going to affect that
condition?

Same old story. The french teams where protesting against racing at
two speeds. Incidently one of the protesting riders testet
positive
the Landis way.

Are you telling he was a French protesting rider ?

No, no. French riders are clean. It was an Italian rider on a French
team.

The obvious solution to cleaning up the Tour is simply to ban all
non-French riders.

I don't agree with you, the problem is not non-French ( or non-German)
but
to ban those from a no-clean federation.
This pro-doped federations are some years late,
US, Kazak, DK are large enough for to have their own tour, it is not ?

Spain? Appart from Operation Puerto, spainish riders and athletes in
genreal a very rare to test positive. Secondly doping seems to be a
non issue in the spanish press.

I am sure they talk much more in DK about doping, and with good
reason, as it seems that all danish cyclist of any note (3 or 4?) have
been
big time dopers.

- Bo Hamburger, first to be detected by an EPO test.
- Mr 64. now selfadmited after a decade of hypocrisy.
- Toasted chicken. We'll hear about his adventures in Italy
now that he is a pariath. Maybe he will
confess himself like Jan or writes a book. If he is proven to
have doped he is going to have a problem to live in Garda anylonger.

So there have been three guys you could root for in the last 20 years and
they all have turned out to be spam... I even used to be a MR fan till
this year and I saw his TT (amazing for someone that still TTrials
zigzaging).

As for the spanish guys. Yes, of course some have doped too. Some may have
even stopped recently. I personally feel quite reasured about their
performance this
year. Yes, maybe even Contador has dopend in the past. But if we put his
performance
relative to what was going on in Disco in Lance's years, I think you can
be
quite
confident that the kid has some class too. Remeber when the whole Disco
could
hang with Lance and the others till the first part of the last climb?
Those
were the good times!!

You know, doping is illegal in Spain (and Italy and France) now , unlike
DK, DE, and other nordic
Hubris zealots. Concentrate on cleaning your own kicken, you need it more
than anybody.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Woah, someones nationalistic buttons got pushed ^^

Do not be ignorant. Spanish nationality is not my cup of tea. But much less
are
absurd stereotypes.

But the thing is that Fuentes lives in Spain... the thing is that
Spanish Marathon runners started running awfuly fast at the same time
as Perdito and later Miguelon sparkled (the rumors about medical

You must be talking about Perico Delgado.

Perico was the first cyclist that was publically lynched as the result of a
leaked test result (with a substance that was not illegal at the time), But
did that change your opinion? He was a great entertaining
climber. BTW: Contador seems to be of a similar style.

breakthroughs in spanish unis persited back in the days)... we have
someone as Heras...

Heras was caught with EPO (5 years after the test was available - to
bring back the topic of stupidity, or is there sth we do not know that
they know). He was caught by spanish authorities, the same about
dozens and dozens of cyclists that get caught every year. But if you
want to know about it, you have to stop following only the TdF.

Fuentes. He lives in Spain , but Jan, Ivan, Hamilton were his customers.
What
is the point?

I do not for a second doubt any nations cyclists are holier than the
other (Mr Moreau has an impressive Jawline^^), but that there are main
Doping lines in Italy and Spain are almost impossible to deny.

The main doping lines develop during generations and are related to
the size of the sports as a business. So the main doping
countries are the ones with the strongest sporting traditions and markets.
Divide number of inhabitants by sport market value and then follow the trail
Divide number of inhabitants per number of Olympic medals and then follow
the trail!

Spain has developed fast in some sports and probably there is doping in
some. But no more
than in other similarly develped countries. So why should Spain win less
medals per-capita
than France? Any genetic trait you may have in mind?


Yes, Contador has class... but Rasmussen who has won Polka dots,
stages and what not (Without being found guilty for dope usage...) is
evil incarnate? Come on.... using double standards makes you look like
a zealot.

Evil (I am not george bush)? I said I used to like him. I just said he is a
liar. I
suspected his radical improvement (that is extremely uncommon for a
fully matured cyclist). Contador, well, I did not cared much about him but
for sure I knew he was a good climber (not as good as Perico) but also
a very good TT (unlike MR). And he is 24/25 and in his first TdF. Is he
doped?
We'll see.

"Alex Beascoechea" wrote in message
...

"Tuschinski" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 26, 8:19 pm, "Alex Beascoechea"
wrote:
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in
...





Montesquiou wrote:

"Simon Brooke" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
in message , Montesquiou
('')
wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" a crit dans le
message
denews:
dtckn4-pk4.__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jf ...
RonSonic wrote:

Could someone explain to me exactly what this was about, please?

I guess I'm neither French nor much of a protestor. What exactly
were
they upset
about and in what way was this action going to affect that
condition?

Same old story. The french teams where protesting against racing
at
two speeds. Incidently one of the protesting riders testet
positive
the Landis way.

Are you telling he was a French protesting rider ?

No, no. French riders are clean. It was an Italian rider on a French
team.

The obvious solution to cleaning up the Tour is simply to ban all
non-French riders.

I don't agree with you, the problem is not non-French ( or non-German)
but
to ban those from a no-clean federation.
This pro-doped federations are some years late,
US, Kazak, DK are large enough for to have their own tour, it is not ?

Spain? Appart from Operation Puerto, spainish riders and athletes in
genreal a very rare to test positive. Secondly doping seems to be a
non issue in the spanish press.

I am sure they talk much more in DK about doping, and with good
reason, as it seems that all danish cyclist of any note (3 or 4?) have
been
big time dopers.

- Bo Hamburger, first to be detected by an EPO test.
- Mr 64. now selfadmited after a decade of hypocrisy.
- Toasted chicken. We'll hear about his adventures in Italy
now that he is a pariath. Maybe he will
confess himself like Jan or writes a book. If he is proven to
have doped he is going to have a problem to live in Garda anylonger.

So there have been three guys you could root for in the last 20 years and
they all have turned out to be spam... I even used to be a MR fan till
this year and I saw his TT (amazing for someone that still TTrials
zigzaging).

As for the spanish guys. Yes, of course some have doped too. Some may
have
even stopped recently. I personally feel quite reasured about their
performance this
year. Yes, maybe even Contador has dopend in the past. But if we put his
performance
relative to what was going on in Disco in Lance's years, I think you can
be
quite
confident that the kid has some class too. Remeber when the whole Disco
could
hang with Lance and the others till the first part of the last climb?
Those
were the good times!!

You know, doping is illegal in Spain (and Italy and France) now , unlike
DK, DE, and other nordic
Hubris zealots. Concentrate on cleaning your own kicken, you need it more
than anybody.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Woah, someones nationalistic buttons got pushed ^^

Do not be ignorant. Spanish nationality is not my cup of tea. But much
less are
absurd stereotypes.

But the thing is that Fuentes lives in Spain... the thing is that
Spanish Marathon runners started running awfuly fast at the same time
as Perdito and later Miguelon sparkled (the rumors about medical

You must be talking about Perico Delgado.

Perico was the first cyclist that was publically lynched as the result of
a
leaked test result (with a substance that was not illegal at the time),
But
did that change your opinion? He was a great entertaining
climber. BTW: Contador seems to be of a similar style.

breakthroughs in spanish unis persited back in the days)... we have
someone as Heras...

Heras was caught with EPO (5 years after the test was available - to
bring back the topic of stupidity, or is there sth we do not know that
they know). He was caught by spanish authorities, the same about
dozens and dozens of cyclists that get caught every year. But if you
want to know about it, you have to stop following only the TdF.

Fuentes. He lives in Spain , but Jan, Ivan, Hamilton were his customers.
What
is the point?

I do not for a second doubt any nations cyclists are holier than the
other (Mr Moreau has an impressive Jawline^^), but that there are main
Doping lines in Italy and Spain are almost impossible to deny.

The main doping lines develop during generations and are related to
the size of the sports as a business. So the main doping
countries are the ones with the strongest sporting traditions and markets.
Divide number of inhabitants by sport market value and then follow the
trail
Divide number of inhabitants per number of Olympic medals and then follow
the trail!

Spain has developed fast in some sports and probably there is doping in
some. But no more
than in other similarly develped countries. So why should Spain win less
medals per-capita
than France? Any genetic trait you may have in mind?


Yes, Contador has class... but Rasmussen who has won Polka dots,
stages and what not (Without being found guilty for dope usage...) is
evil incarnate? Come on.... using double standards makes you look like
a zealot.

Evil (I am not george bush)? I said I used to like him. I just said he is
a liar. I
suspected his radical improvement (that is extremely uncommon for a
fully matured cyclist). Contador, well, I did not cared much about him but
for sure I knew he was a good climber (not as good as Perico) but also
a very good TT (unlike MR). And he is 24/25 and in his first TdF. Is he
doped?
We'll see.

Oops! Sorry. Second.

"alex beascoechea" wrote in message
...

"Alex Beascoechea" wrote in message
...

"Tuschinski" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 26, 8:19 pm, "Alex Beascoechea"
wrote:
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in
...





Montesquiou wrote:

"Simon Brooke" a écrit dans le message de
news:
...
in message , Montesquiou
('')
wrote:

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" a crit dans le
message
denews:
dtckn4-pk4.__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jf ...
RonSonic wrote:

Could someone explain to me exactly what this was about, please?

I guess I'm neither French nor much of a protestor. What exactly
were
they upset
about and in what way was this action going to affect that
condition?

Same old story. The french teams where protesting against racing
at
two speeds. Incidently one of the protesting riders testet
positive
the Landis way.

Are you telling he was a French protesting rider ?

No, no. French riders are clean. It was an Italian rider on a
French
team.

The obvious solution to cleaning up the Tour is simply to ban all
non-French riders.

I don't agree with you, the problem is not non-French ( or
non-German)
but
to ban those from a no-clean federation.
This pro-doped federations are some years late,
US, Kazak, DK are large enough for to have their own tour, it is not
?

Spain? Appart from Operation Puerto, spainish riders and athletes in
genreal a very rare to test positive. Secondly doping seems to be a
non issue in the spanish press.

I am sure they talk much more in DK about doping, and with good
reason, as it seems that all danish cyclist of any note (3 or 4?) have
been
big time dopers.

- Bo Hamburger, first to be detected by an EPO test.
- Mr 64. now selfadmited after a decade of hypocrisy.
- Toasted chicken. We'll hear about his adventures in Italy
now that he is a pariath. Maybe he will
confess himself like Jan or writes a book. If he is proven to
have doped he is going to have a problem to live in Garda anylonger.

So there have been three guys you could root for in the last 20 years
and
they all have turned out to be spam... I even used to be a MR fan till
this year and I saw his TT (amazing for someone that still TTrials
zigzaging).

As for the spanish guys. Yes, of course some have doped too. Some may
have
even stopped recently. I personally feel quite reasured about their
performance this
year. Yes, maybe even Contador has dopend in the past. But if we put his
performance
relative to what was going on in Disco in Lance's years, I think you can
be
quite
confident that the kid has some class too. Remeber when the whole Disco
could
hang with Lance and the others till the first part of the last climb?
Those
were the good times!!

You know, doping is illegal in Spain (and Italy and France) now ,
unlike
DK, DE, and other nordic
Hubris zealots. Concentrate on cleaning your own kicken, you need it
more
than anybody.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Woah, someones nationalistic buttons got pushed ^^

Do not be ignorant. Spanish nationality is not my cup of tea. But much
less are
absurd stereotypes.

But the thing is that Fuentes lives in Spain... the thing is that
Spanish Marathon runners started running awfuly fast at the same time
as Perdito and later Miguelon sparkled (the rumors about medical

You must be talking about Perico Delgado.

Perico was the first cyclist that was publically lynched as the result of
a
leaked test result (with a substance that was not illegal at the time),
But
did that change your opinion? He was a great entertaining
climber. BTW: Contador seems to be of a similar style.

breakthroughs in spanish unis persited back in the days)... we have
someone as Heras...

Heras was caught with EPO (5 years after the test was available - to
bring back the topic of stupidity, or is there sth we do not know that
they know). He was caught by spanish authorities, the same about
dozens and dozens of cyclists that get caught every year. But if you
want to know about it, you have to stop following only the TdF.

Fuentes. He lives in Spain , but Jan, Ivan, Hamilton were his customers.
What
is the point?

I do not for a second doubt any nations cyclists are holier than the
other (Mr Moreau has an impressive Jawline^^), but that there are main
Doping lines in Italy and Spain are almost impossible to deny.

The main doping lines develop during generations and are related to
the size of the sports as a business. So the main doping
countries are the ones with the strongest sporting traditions and
markets.
Divide number of inhabitants by sport market value and then follow the
trail
Divide number of inhabitants per number of Olympic medals and then follow
the trail!

Spain has developed fast in some sports and probably there is doping in
some. But no more
than in other similarly develped countries. So why should Spain win less
medals per-capita
than France? Any genetic trait you may have in mind?


Yes, Contador has class... but Rasmussen who has won Polka dots,
stages and what not (Without being found guilty for dope usage...) is
evil incarnate? Come on.... using double standards makes you look like
a zealot.

Evil (I am not george bush)? I said I used to like him. I just said he is
a liar. I
suspected his radical improvement (that is extremely uncommon for a
fully matured cyclist). Contador, well, I did not cared much about him
but
for sure I knew he was a good climber (not as good as Perico) but also
a very good TT (unlike MR). And he is 24/25 and in his first TdF. Is he
doped?
We'll see.

Oops! Sorry. Second.

Morton, please send me an email.

Alex Beascoechea wrote:

We know very well that these countries have very strict substance control
legislation and enforcement.
But the problem is that it does not work. And
that is why countries like Norway are full or drug/alcohol/gambling
addiction rehab
centers (I know NO relatively well)..You can eventually get what you want
from the government!
Abuse of everykind is cultural.

This relates to doping in elite cycling in what way?

In Spain you can buy softdrugs (pretty much anywhere and drink alcohol since
infancy,
but you will rarely find completely drunk people in the street or rioting
and
destroying a restaurant as I have seen in Norway

Fjældaber - every respectable norwegian has an illicit distiller in
his basement :-)

It is the same about the reaction to doping. We know it happens and we
know it is a problem. We agree that if you get caught you are out. But that
is that. We do not make a big bonfire and burn some scapegoats and pull
our hair and ask for cycling to stop and the TdF to be terminated.

Neither do i...

The reaction in scandinavia is somehow typical. But
I like to compare it with Germany (that I know pretty well). Till recently
here(DE)
everybody assumed that the German cyclist were the only clean ones (and
that is why they did not have a chance). It is the Spanish, Italians and
other
southern filth that cheat (sounds familiar?). Well, guess what? You turn a
stone in Germany and you find a cheat and doper. But now they want the whole
party (that they were aspiring to control with the help of UCI shut down)

???.

If they want to start to cleanup they should start with the Tour of Germany
that is nothing but an UCI abortion to try go milk the german cycling market.

I've got absolutely no opinion about a german protour race.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Carl Sundquist wrote:

Morton, please send me an email.

Me? my mailadress is valid.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
Fjældaber - every respectable norwegian has an illicit distiller in
his basement :-)

Don't tell Ryan unless you want another political asylum refugee in
Norway.

In article ,
Donald Munro wrote:

Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
Fjældaber - every respectable norwegian has an illicit distiller in
his basement :-)

Don't tell Ryan unless you want another political asylum refugee in
Norway.

They'll never believe me. They'll assume it's all about oil.

Also, while LIVEDRUNK strongly supports home distilling, the mother of
Norwegian ingenuity is apalling (rbr accepted spelling) liquor taxes.

I mean, Canada's are bad, but not that bad,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" wrote in message
...
Alex Beascoechea wrote:

We know very well that these countries have very strict substance control
legislation and enforcement.
But the problem is that it does not work. And
that is why countries like Norway are full or drug/alcohol/gambling
addiction rehab
centers (I know NO relatively well)..You can eventually get what you want
from the government!
Abuse of everykind is cultural.

This relates to doping in elite cycling in what way?


You were making a point (in a variety of threads) that doping is prevalent
in Spain because (among other things) it is so accessible (for example, to
bribe a pharmacist).

My point (if very circumvent an now out of context) was that having
something available does not necessarily make the locals dependent on it
(but the reverse could be true). And in particular, and finally going back
to pro cycling, this resource is available to everybody and even organized
in an international network, as the Fuentes case has shown. Pharmaceuticals
out of the loop in Spain or other countries are available both to Contador
and Michael Rasmussen . The consumers originate in the country where the
rewards for being successful and marketable bring more economic benefit.

Another point that you are making (also in multiple threads) is that there
is some political (and even judicial) interest in getting specific cyclists
off-the-hook in the Fuentes case ( which you set in a context of complete
corruption). I do not see why excluding Contador and De.Leon out of the list
of 9 involved cyclist from Liberty is so suspicious. The judge and the
sports authorities simply found there are not enough evidence about them.
For sure, there has not been any positive test yet. Why should they have
cared about him and not about Beloki?

Was it possible to be in Liberty and not dope? Difficult. But they were the
youngest and the least powerful to push for a treatment anyways. It must
be hard to get a piece of the medical budget when you have Toni Rominger
demanding personalized (Jan Ullrich/Tyler/Basso) level of treatment for his
customers (Vino) , we know it costs 50K/year.

So now we are 2 years later and Contador is leading. Should he (and the
others you claim are dopers by association to Ferrari or others) be excluded
to repair for the moral damages to Michael Rasmussen and the media campaign
against him?

So where is the standard you are looking for? Can you define the parameters?
If we strictly follow the law only positive B test should count, oder? In
that case Ivan Basso and Jan would probably winning this TdF by 10mins and
MR would have never developed (ultimately lethal) ambitions other than be a
worker for Menchov.