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CTC Helmet Policy
I understand that CTC's policy on helmets is to let the individual
decide; I quite agree. However, I am surprised that they actually sit on the fence without coming down on one side or another. Surely they could say: on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists wear helmets or on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists do not wear helmets followed by - we will review our recommendations as additional research results are published Can they really not decide on the basis of current research, or is it that it is much easier to sit on the fence and it causes less aggravation with their members.? |
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#2
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CTC Helmet Policy
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:13:28 +0100, judith
wrote: Can they really not decide on the basis of current research, or is it that it is much easier to sit on the fence and it causes less aggravation with their members.? I would prefer that they did not have a policy on it myself, and that they allow the individual to read all of the material available on the subject (or indeed not to do so and to just decide either way on a whim, as is the individual's prerogative) and make their own decision either way. Summing it up in a single policy is a bit simplistic. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
#3
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CTC Helmet Policy
judith wrote:
I understand that CTC's policy on helmets is to let the individual decide; I quite agree. However, I am surprised that they actually sit on the fence without coming down on one side or another. Surely they could say: on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists wear helmets or on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists do not wear helmets If you look at the scientific evidence you'll find that the fence is actually the smartest place to sit at the moment, because it tells you that (a) the evidence itself is far from perfect, and (b) from what we /can/ usefully say, helmets do pretty much nothing, give or take error bars (which given (a) above are actually non-trivial, but are not any more likley to go up than down). And with that to back you up it's pretty daft paying any great attention to helmets at all. There certainly isn't enough evidence to say you /should/ wear them, and there is also certainly insufficient evidence to say you should *not*. So it isn't "surely" one or the other, it's "we can't tell, it could be either". Can they really not decide on the basis of current research, or is it that it is much easier to sit on the fence and it causes less aggravation with their members.? They really *can't* decide on the basis of current research, because the current research says they do nothing give or take error bars which could go either way. It's actually the honest thing to do. I'll grant you it probably doesn't look that way if you want it in black and white, but it isn't black and white, it's an even grey... or perhaps a mottled one. But not /conclusive/ either way that anyone either should or should not wear one. You'll see other interpretations of the data to mine, of course, and in both directions. But that's just further grist to the mill that one can't really be sure about the benefits, be they positive or negative. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#4
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CTC Helmet Policy
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#5
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CTC Helmet Policy
Peter Clinch wrote:
judith wrote: Judith is a troll. The Wikipedia definition for those who mis-use or don't undestand the term - "An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial ... messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum ..., with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) and has been added to my kill file because this poster is intent of stirring up trouble. First of all about using cycle paths and now helmets. Why on earth are you lot feeding her/him the entire time? If you must reply can you add 'Judith' to the subject so my filter will pick it up and delete it? Steve C |
#6
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CTC Helmet Policy
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:13:28 +0100, judith
said in : Surely they could say: on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists wear helmets or on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists do not wear helmets Or they could say "on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists read the research and make up their own mind based on their cycling,their routes, their towns and their perception of risk." You are, in this newsgroup, only one degree of separation from the CTC policy makers. They read some but not all posts, and several of us are in contact with people from CTC. In my case, pretty much daily email contact with the campaigns team. So I can answer this with a reasonable degree of certainty. You're unlikely to find CTC advocating any one size fits all solution to any supposed cycling problem. CTC think that leaving it to the individual, recognising the vast diversity of individual cycling experiences, is far and away the smartest move. The pro-helmet lobby would love CTC to come down one way or another, but CTC is more about presenting evidence, helping people make informed choices, and supporting them in the informed choices they make, often against quite outrageous cluelessness at various levels of officialdom. Do join, it is a very fine organisation. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
#7
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CTC Helmet Policy
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:25:41 +0100, Steve C
said in : The Wikipedia definition for those who mis-use or don't undestand the term /me goes off to delete the Internet troll article No, better not. Too much drahma on WP right now. We nuked an article cited by an SEO as a great article he'd created which yielded 18% better conversion rates than any other web advert. He failed the intelligence test: spam Wikipedia if you must, but if you crow about it in print, expect the outcome to be sub-optimal for you and your client. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
#8
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CTC Helmet Policy
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:25:01 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:13:28 +0100, judith said in : Surely they could say: on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists wear helmets or on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists do not wear helmets Or they could say "on the basis of existing scientific research we recommend that cyclists read the research and make up their own mind based on their cycling,their routes, their towns and their perception of risk." They could I agree. However I suspect that the vast majority of cyclists - me included - do not have the time to read and the ability to absorb the research and arrive at a measured opinion. CTC think that leaving it to the individual, recognising the vast diversity of individual cycling experiences, is far and away the smartest move. The pro-helmet lobby would love CTC to come down one way or another in the same way that the anti-helmet lobby would but CTC is more about presenting evidence, helping people make informed choices, and supporting them in the informed choices they make I did however point out earlier that they do not do this on their website. They clearly reference anti-helmet pages - but you have to be a member to read the pro-helmet research. This is hardly the action of presenting evidence and helping people make informed choices. Has there ever been a survey carried out to see what cyclists think about the question? (and before someone suggests that I am - I am not suggesting that this would validate or invalidate the reasons for and against helmets) I suspect that it would show that the vast majority of cyclists do believe that helmets are better than no helmets. This may not be something which the CTC would wish to acknowledge as it may show that the vast majority are against their (unstated) official view. |
#9
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CTC Helmet Policy
Its 21st century Labour britain. Helmets will be compulsory. The fine will
be automatic. We will soon have to register our bikes, maybe a license. Oh, that will cost too. Minorities, of course, will be exempt from this. Parents will be fined if their kids whizz their BMX no cycling bits etc Only the voters can prevent this next year. |
#10
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CTC Helmet Policy Duh!
judith wrote:
I understand that CTC's policy on helmets is to let the individual decide; I quite agree. However, I am surprised that they actually sit on the fence without coming down on one side or another. That's just as stupid as saying the AA should recommend '4x4s' or not. But then that's how you are isn't it. -- Peter (Prof) Fox Multitude of things for beer, cycling, Morris and curiosities at http://vulpeculox.net |
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