Email to J. Forester

Steven Fleming wrote an article and mentioned John Forester, in a not so
flattering way, in my opinion.

I directed Steven to an article from John Forester.

Steven now asks "Can we both be right?"

I emailed John forester @ johnforester.com in case he wanted to comment.

--
JS

Dear John,

I thought you may be interested in this tweet;

*Steven Fleming* �@*BehoovingMoving*
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving 12m
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving/status/392807326287032320

My view
http://theconversation.com/ride-to-w...for-that-19111
… http://t.co/fLNWyG1iNH verses John Forester's. Can we both be right?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...ould-be-equals
… http://t.co/GDw9ydh5fU via @*_JamesSteward_*
https://twitter.com/_JamesSteward_

Sincerely,
James Steward.

James writes:

Steven Fleming wrote an article and mentioned John Forester, in a not so
flattering way, in my opinion.

I directed Steven to an article from John Forester.

Steven now asks "Can we both be right?"

I emailed John forester @ johnforester.com in case he wanted to comment.

--
JS

Dear John,

I thought you may be interested in this tweet;

*Steven Fleming* �@*BehoovingMoving*
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving 12m
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving/status/392807326287032320

My view
http://theconversation.com/ride-to-w...for-that-19111
… http://t.co/fLNWyG1iNH verses John Forester's. Can we both be right?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...ould-be-equals
… http://t.co/GDw9ydh5fU via @*_JamesSteward_*
https://twitter.com/_JamesSteward_

Sincerely,
James Steward.

The first ~8 miles of my usual commute is two-lane, two-way
road with 55 mph speed limit (actual speeds may vary -
generally upward) and failry wide (~3 feet or so) paved
shoulders. I've ridden this for years.

This year I finally started taking a side road for couple of
miles. It adds about a half mile of distance, the road is
considerably rougher, much more narrow, no stripes - maybe
a touch better windbreak but that's never been an issue on
the main road anyway. But the main thing about this side
road is that there is virtually zero motor traffic on it.

There is *some* motor traffic - very occasional car or pickup
truck going to or from some homes down there, but *nothing*
like the modest but regular high speed traffic on the main
road. Far and away most of the drivers on the main road
give plenty of clearance when passing (either completely
levaing the lane or at least straddle passing - sometimes
even slowing), but there have been a few blatantly unnecessarily
close passes at speed, at least one *oncoming* pass at very
high speed (me on the shoulder, oncoming pickup truck at
70+ mph passing other motor traffic in my adjacent lane),
and at least a couple of egregious right hooks.

Those bad incidents aren't enough to make things any worse
than most other roads. It's much better than many other places.
As much as I have ridden this road, all that is to be expected
anywhere (in the US).

But I have really come to like this longer, rougher, narrower,
side road - it's completely separated (almost no motor vehicle
would prefer it to the shorter, smoother, wider main road).
It looks like one of those separated bike paths in Holland.
It is tremendously pleasant compared to the main road.

And as I noted elsewhere, if they airlifted Holland and dropped
it onto the area I live and ride, suddenly there would be an
eminently feasible alternative for people. As it is, everyone
just accepts that there is no way to get between towns except
to drive a car. (There is no way any but a weirdo like myself
- Forester's courageous, "competent" male - would consider
bicycle transportation here.)

On 23/10/13 11:51, James wrote:
Steven Fleming wrote an article and mentioned John Forester, in a not so
flattering way, in my opinion.

I directed Steven to an article from John Forester.

Steven now asks "Can we both be right?"

I emailed John forester @ johnforester.com in case he wanted to comment.


John's comment was not surprising;

"In the lead article Steven Fleming refers to me and to my actions. Not
one of the statements that he makes about me or my actions is correct.

Furthermore, Fleming's statements in the field of bicycle transportation
engineering, about cycle tracks for example, are also false. Fleming is
just another example of those people who believe their superstitions
about bicycle transportation without bothering to understand the facts
and science."

Again I had cause to LOL.

--
JS

facts n science ? results are not in....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forester_(cyclist)

James writes:

Steven Fleming wrote an article and mentioned John Forester, in a not so
flattering way, in my opinion.

I directed Steven to an article from John Forester.

Steven now asks "Can we both be right?"

I emailed John forester @ johnforester.com in case he wanted to comment.

--
JS

Dear John,

I thought you may be interested in this tweet;

*Steven Fleming* �@*BehoovingMoving*
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving 12m
https://twitter.com/BehoovingMoving/status/392807326287032320

My view
http://theconversation.com/ride-to-w...for-that-19111
… http://t.co/fLNWyG1iNH verses John Forester's. Can we both be right?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...ould-be-equals
… http://t.co/GDw9ydh5fU via @*_JamesSteward_*
https://twitter.com/_JamesSteward_

Sincerely,
James Steward.

re; the NY Times article by Forester:

Scientific Schmientific! Anyone can see that the greatest collision
hazards are not being run down by same direction traffic. Bikes and
cars sharing the same lanes is altogether feasible with cooperation and
accomodation, but there's simply too much animosity on the part of
motorists, they express this with their behavior, and *this* creates a
hostile environment for bicyclists. Even more, too often motorists
simply throw their weight around to *take* the right-of-way, counting
on bicyclists to relinquish it. Considering the alternative, motorists
usually just get away with it; and in the rare instances that they
don't, it's usually because the bicyclist got the worst of it, anyway.

And here's what irritates me so greatly when Frank lashes into a
strawman of me with his Forester rhetoric:

I do not feel guilt impeding motorists as necessary for me to have my
place on the road. I do feel anxiety that they will feel animosity
toward me - with good reason as they keep demonstrating it.

I do not feel fear of being run down by same direction traffic, but
neither do I feel it's completely safe to assume same direction traffic
will accomodate me, so it makes sense to be positioned out of their way
- all else being close enough to equal. (This also exhibits cooperative
goodwill that may reasonably be expected to reduce the animosity.)

And I do not feel helpless. As a bicyclist I enjoy a tremendous array
of options - options not available to motorists - that enable essential
control to flexibly determine my own destiny.

I can and do ride in accord with Forester's VC principles (common sense,
really), but I won't limit myself to them. Too much of what makes
bicycling so groovy is outside the rules of the road and hurts no one
beyond the unreasonable sense that no one else should enjoy greater
freedom - even when their relative constraint is self-imposed.