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  #41  
Old September 7th 17, 09:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,379
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:30:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:04:20 +0700, John B.
wrote:

"The potential collective intelligence of a human group is
exponentially proportional to group size, however in practice the
actual collective intelligence that is achieved by a group is
inversely proportional to group size. There is a huge delta between
potential collective intelligence and actual collective intelligence
in practice. In other words, when it comes to collective intelligence,
the whole has the potential to be smarter than the sum of its parts,
but in practice it is usually dumber."

to quote http://tinyurl.com/yd68nx2


Collective intelligence is also linear. If one person can do a
specific job in 1 hr, two people will take 2 hrs, three people will
take 3 hrs, four people will take 4 hrs, etc.


Seriously, that is true in some situations. I worked with a guy that
had a flourishing trucking business going in California and mush of
his work was hauling fill to some large earth filled dam they were
building, I think as a backup for the L.A. water supply system.

In any event he sold up and came overseas to work. I asked him why and
he said, "do you know how long it takes a truck driver to have a cup
of coffee and a slice of pie?

He explained that the last part of the haul was up a mountain so after
dumping the load the truckers would roll down the hill and stop at a
strategically located coffee shop. Truck #1 would drop his load and
stop for coffee and about the time he was finishing the coffee truck
#2 would arrive, and before they finished their coffee truck #3 would
arrive and before you know it an hour and a half had gone by :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

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  #42  
Old September 7th 17, 10:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,525
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 15:36:30 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I would think that temperature would have a rather large effect on
this sort of thing but I suspect that an automatic air pressure system
wouldn't be difficult to arrange.


Yep, a big effect. Mine currently doesn't have any pressure
regulation, but does have an overpressure relief valve. The problem
is that I want to run as much pressure as the antenna tower will
handle. The maximum load is the area of the vertical tower section
(something like a vertical cylinder), times the inflation pressure.
The area is limited by practically and a desire to keep the weight and
size reasonable. That leaves air pressure as the important parameter.

If I ever decide to build an inflatable bicycle frame, the experience
with the antenna tower should be useful.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Yellow-giant-inflatable-bicycle-inflatable-bike_60246071497.html




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #43  
Old September 7th 17, 01:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,379
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 02:13:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 15:36:30 +0700, John B.
wrote:

I would think that temperature would have a rather large effect on
this sort of thing but I suspect that an automatic air pressure system
wouldn't be difficult to arrange.


Yep, a big effect. Mine currently doesn't have any pressure
regulation, but does have an overpressure relief valve. The problem
is that I want to run as much pressure as the antenna tower will
handle. The maximum load is the area of the vertical tower section
(something like a vertical cylinder), times the inflation pressure.
The area is limited by practically and a desire to keep the weight and
size reasonable. That leaves air pressure as the important parameter.


Well, in a sense a constant running compressor and some sort of
pressure relief valve is a pressure control system. Isn't it :-?

If I ever decide to build an inflatable bicycle frame, the experience
with the antenna tower should be useful.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Yellow-giant-inflatable-bicycle-inflatable-bike_60246071497.html


Given all the pros and cons to BB flex and stiff versus flexible
frames, etc., I suggest that the "frame pressure" is probably going to
be greater then you can get with your hand pump. If I remember your
pressure gauge only up went to 100 psi, or there about :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #44  
Old September 7th 17, 03:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,183
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 8:21:21 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:08:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:07:47 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:

Or just buy a decent pump and forget about it.


As Jeff asked - what is a "decent pump"? A pump that works good
on a high pressure racing bike takes forever to inflate an MTB
tire. With almost all of the pumps these days using that awful
filler valve
https://tinyurl.com/y84dcpqn simply isn't right
for other applications.


The air chuck (head) certainly could use a few lessons from the
automobile mechanics, which use a proper locking air chuck something
like these:
https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/2HKY3_AS01
https://veesun.com/images/air_chuck/731423.jpg
They grip well, don't fall off, don't blow off at 150 psi, and usually
survive getting trampled. However, they're for Schrader valves only
and are not made for Presta. The closest equivalent is this device:
https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Hiro+Side+Lever+Lockin g+Disc+Chuck&vendorCode=SILCA&major=12&minor=4
Yes, it's USD$100.00 for a locking Presta air chuck. You can find
something cheaper, but it's not locking:
http://www.lezyne.com/product-dpumps-acc-slipchk.php
About $10. I have two of them. They work for about 20-30 inflations
before the rubber O-ring wears out. Notice that it includes 6
replacement O-rings. More Presta tire chucks:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=locking+presta+tire+chuck
You can find other Presta heads, but they will probably be in the form
of a combination Schrader and Presta head, which is the problem. When
one combines the two valve types in a single head, the only mechanism
that works for both is the "hole in the rubber plug" type that grips
the threads on the outside of the valve stem.

One possible solution for Presta is to use a Schrader to Presta
adapter, but those are awkward and clumsy and tend to fall off if left
on the valve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncY1PEgSbI0

In my never humble opinion, the best solution is a pump head with only
one type of valve arrangement. The hose and head should be removable
from the pump using standard pneumatic fittings. If a floor pump, the
gauge should be near the handle, where I can see it, not on the floor,
where I need my distance eyeglasses to read the dial.
http://www.bermstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/20141116-turbocharger-pump-6281.jpg
Extra credit for selecting large numbers and high visibility colors
for the dial, instead of a black dial with a red pointer, which is
almost invisible in the dark:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/images.linnlive.com/9aee59d2c18ef6fce9ea759285f794e3/0f3a7dbd-0a6f-4bf9-9ff5-50c64bc3c06f.jpg
I'm sure there are more obvious improvements but these will suffice
for now.

As for tire pump displacement vs pressure, take a look at a better
than average hydraulic wood splitter. All these use two stage
hydraulic pumps. There first stage offers high volume, low pressure,
to rapidly move the splitting wedge from the open loading position, to
where it begins to hit the log. Once it hits the log, it switches to
low volume, high pressure, which is what's needed to bisect the log.
The same could be done with a bicycle pump design. The bicycle pump
would initially be in high volume, low pressure mode up to maybe 10-15
psi, where it would switch to low volume high pressure to reach
operating pressure.


Jeff - tire mechanics don't use any sort of locking head. With a high capacity compressor and tank a tire fills in seconds.
  #45  
Old September 7th 17, 03:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 9:04:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

"The potential collective intelligence of a human group is
exponentially proportional to group size, however in practice the
actual collective intelligence that is achieved by a group is
inversely proportional to group size. There is a huge delta between
potential collective intelligence and actual collective intelligence
in practice. In other words, when it comes to collective intelligence,
the whole has the potential to be smarter than the sum of its parts,
but in practice it is usually dumber."


This is the social media and most especially where it pertains to "man-made global warming". I perused the "climate change forums" yesterday and they weren't in even the wildest imagination a forum. They were ALL repetitions of falsified theories treated as if they were from intellectually gifted individuals. Most of these sites would not even allow any contradictory evidence.

Turn on the TV - we now have "the worst hurricane EVER on record in the Carribean" - the "record" is only about 60 years long. But they're very careful not to say that.
  #46  
Old September 7th 17, 05:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,525
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Jeff - tire mechanics don't use any sort of locking head.
With a high capacity compressor and tank a tire fills in seconds.


A few months ago, I watched the local tire dealer prepare and install
a new set of tires on my Subaru:
http://www.lloydstire.com
As I recall, it went something like this:

The mechanic would first mount one tire on the rim and place it next
to each wheel next to the car. He would then connect a hose with a
locking head to the tire, open a valve, and go away to do something
else, as the tire fills on the ground. There was no pressure check at
this point. When fully inflated, he begins to fill another tire,
while the first tire is being mounted on the car. When all the tires
are inflated and mounted on the car, he would go around to all 4 tires
and measure the tire pressure, bleeding off any excess. It was quite
efficient.

I don't recall how long it took to fill an individual tire, but it
didn't matter because the mechanic was busy working on one of the
other tires as it filled (as facilitated by the locking head).

When it stops drizzling, I might ride over there to double check my
observations and fill in any details. Probably Mon or Tues.


--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #47  
Old September 8th 17, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,379
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:47:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Jeff - tire mechanics don't use any sort of locking head.
With a high capacity compressor and tank a tire fills in seconds.


A few months ago, I watched the local tire dealer prepare and install
a new set of tires on my Subaru:
http://www.lloydstire.com
As I recall, it went something like this:

The mechanic would first mount one tire on the rim and place it next
to each wheel next to the car. He would then connect a hose with a
locking head to the tire, open a valve, and go away to do something
else, as the tire fills on the ground. There was no pressure check at
this point. When fully inflated, he begins to fill another tire,
while the first tire is being mounted on the car. When all the tires
are inflated and mounted on the car, he would go around to all 4 tires
and measure the tire pressure, bleeding off any excess. It was quite
efficient.

I don't recall how long it took to fill an individual tire, but it
didn't matter because the mechanic was busy working on one of the
other tires as it filled (as facilitated by the locking head).

When it stops drizzling, I might ride over there to double check my
observations and fill in any details. Probably Mon or Tues.


Over here nearly all the Service Stations have these new automated
gizmos where you dial up the required pressure and plug the hose onto
the tire and stand around picking lint off your shirt until the gizmo
announces that the tire is inflated. Unfortunately nearly all of them,
that have been installed for any time at all, have an inoperative
locking head. Apparently the locking heads, or at least the locking
heads used, do not stand up well to 24 hour a day, 7 day a week usage.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #48  
Old September 8th 17, 04:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Let the Laughing Begin

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 9:47:21 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Jeff - tire mechanics don't use any sort of locking head.
With a high capacity compressor and tank a tire fills in seconds.


A few months ago, I watched the local tire dealer prepare and install
a new set of tires on my Subaru:
http://www.lloydstire.com
As I recall, it went something like this:

The mechanic would first mount one tire on the rim and place it next
to each wheel next to the car. He would then connect a hose with a
locking head to the tire, open a valve, and go away to do something
else, as the tire fills on the ground. There was no pressure check at
this point. When fully inflated, he begins to fill another tire,
while the first tire is being mounted on the car. When all the tires
are inflated and mounted on the car, he would go around to all 4 tires
and measure the tire pressure, bleeding off any excess. It was quite
efficient.

I don't recall how long it took to fill an individual tire, but it
didn't matter because the mechanic was busy working on one of the
other tires as it filled (as facilitated by the locking head).

When it stops drizzling, I might ride over there to double check my
observations and fill in any details. Probably Mon or Tues.


Your mechanic is an outlier then. I have 5 tire dealers within two miles of my house. One I have 1/4 mile away that I use for all of my tire work. They remove all four tires and take them over to the mountain machine. They use the mounting machine, use the strap to pull the bead in enough and then fill the tire on the machine and then take it off. The car is on a lift. They do this to all four tires in succession and then mount them on the car and you're finished. They don't pull any hoses around and they don't need to lock a head to the valve. As I said - they have large pumps and pressure storage tanks and the tire fills in seconds.
 




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