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Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 12, 04:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay Beattie
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Posts: 4,322
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

Not withstanding bike lanes and green boxes, it is still possible to
get squashed by a truck in downtown Portland.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ws_spotli.html
Now they are talking about putting in complicated warning lights.

Oddly enough, we got these green boxes and lanes exactly because a
girl got squashed by a turning truck in another part of down town.
None of this stuff is a guaranty that you are going to be seen by a
giant, slow moving truck with mirrors mounted six feet off the
ground. I am absolutely not placing blame, but with the speed
differences in the two vehicles (nimble bike versus lumbering semi on
narrow downtown street with short blocks between lights), I always
wonder how these truck squash incidents occur.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #2  
Old May 19th 12, 04:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

yeah. The inside truck move is danegrous, tobe avoided...in a van...Europa/Mini...bicycle ? points for the trucker-no pints for the cyclist.

The Ford van's mirrors are concave. Concave collect max light. Wanna see a AAA sunset ? use the mirrors.

And a hemispherical mirror set into the concave...at your eye level soas yawlm doahn need to make 2 eye motions to see what...and practice or warmup before going thru LA. The concaves brin gpassing vehicles close to the van body when the passers are in 'reality' several feet further away. Is jumpy

A solution I use is a TV camera from Audiovox. Itsa backup camera....the market was flooded at Sonic Electronix and Crutchfield. The backup without radar is a super camera moubatble on the passengers side pointing front for Baja's narrow MEX 1 or backward or down for mountain driving caws

THE SWITCHBACK INSIDE IS UNSEEABLE Impossible and treacherous.

NEVER PASS A TRUCK CLOSE IN. The deal with a van even is pull ahead so the truck sees you or stay behind.

That's truck courteasy. Truck goes first. Always. Global Warming.
  #3  
Old May 19th 12, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On May 19, 8:04 am, Jay Beattie wrote:
Not withstanding bike lanes and green boxes, it is still possible to
get squashed by a truck in downtown Portland.http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...cyclists_death...
Now they are talking about putting in complicated warning lights.

Oddly enough, we got these green boxes and lanes exactly because a
girl got squashed by a turning truck in another part of down town.
None of this stuff is a guaranty that you are going to be seen by a
giant, slow moving truck with mirrors mounted six feet off the
ground. I am absolutely not placing blame, but with the speed
differences in the two vehicles (nimble bike versus lumbering semi on
narrow downtown street with short blocks between lights), I always
wonder how these truck squash incidents occur.


I haven't reviewed this incident (saw it on the morning news the next
day), but ISTM it's a big, big world with all different kinds of
different people with all different focuses and priorities and
perceptions (witness discussion on rbt :-) For me, it always comes
back to situational awareness and what matters to me at every given
moment. I occasionally reflect on why I haven't bought the farm yet -
luck is definitely part of it.
  #4  
Old May 19th 12, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On May 19, 8:29 am, datakoll wrote:
yeah. The inside truck move is danegrous, tobe avoided...in a van...Europa/Mini...bicycle ? points for the trucker-no pints for the cyclist.

The Ford van's mirrors are concave. Concave collect max light. Wanna see a AAA sunset ? use the mirrors.

And a hemispherical mirror set into the concave...at your eye level soas yawlm doahn need to make 2 eye motions to see what...and practice or warmup before going thru LA. The concaves brin gpassing vehicles close to the van body when the passers are in 'reality' several feet further away. Is jumpy

A solution I use is a TV camera from Audiovox. Itsa backup camera....the market was flooded at Sonic Electronix and Crutchfield. The backup without radar is a super camera moubatble on the passengers side pointing front for Baja's narrow MEX 1 or backward or down for mountain driving caws

THE SWITCHBACK INSIDE IS UNSEEABLE Impossible and treacherous.

NEVER PASS A TRUCK CLOSE IN. The deal with a van even is pull ahead so the truck sees you or stay behind.

That's truck courteasy. Truck goes first. Always. Global Warming.


Big trucks are cool for maneuvering around in that they can't make
changes (go where they're not) as suddenly as smaller vehicles -
they're more relatively fixed in time and space. I remember vividly
this (see ~midde paragraph about stuffing it to the inside of the big
truck):

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...0437c0e646734a

.... and:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...934f48f043d1db

Flying into that hole, my situational awareness includes the laws of
physics ("assess the geometry and
motion"), which told me there was no way for that truck to fill that
hole in my universe. Of course, if I'd lost it making the turn, could
have been lights out for sure.
  #5  
Old May 20th 12, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

spoke with a camper from Portland here on the side of Mt Lassen who knew the of this "right hook.

ura sport rider ok those other people are commuters like the backfield in F1. There's a danger zone pecentage wise so the brain's supposed tom evaluate for survival, sport, commuting, recreation, as levels of exposure in the hole.

if the commuter, eith avarega abilities, like my keyboard, commutes as a sport rider then prob he's gonna crash and squash

ask State Farm'

deal is awareness. victim may not have been aware of the right hook thinking she was only normal traffic.

maybe HS should offer a supplemenatl class in bike safety ?
  #6  
Old May 20th 12, 09:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 21
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On May 19, 9:04*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
Not withstanding bike lanes and green boxes, it is still possible to
get squashed by a truck in downtown Portland.http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...cyclists_death...
Now they are talking about putting in complicated warning lights.

Oddly enough, we got these green boxes and lanes exactly because a
girl got squashed by a turning truck in another part of down town.
None of this stuff is a guaranty that you are going to be seen by a
giant, slow moving truck with mirrors mounted six feet off the
ground. *I am absolutely not placing blame, but with the speed
differences in the two vehicles (nimble bike versus lumbering semi on
narrow downtown street with short blocks between lights), I always
wonder how these truck squash incidents occur.

-- Jay Beattie.


In this incident it seems the truck necessarily was turning right from
the left lane. That's pretty tricky for a cyclist who isn't versed in
these things. The truck is pointed to the left as it approaches and
goes into the intersection, in order to swing right, surprisingly
quickly. Looks like it's going straight through the intersection.

This didn't have anything to do with infrastructure as far as I can
tell, other than it was present. On an unlined street, the same thing
happens.
  #7  
Old May 22nd 12, 09:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Wayne[_4_]
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Posts: 17
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

A cyclist should avoid trucks' blind spots like the plague. That said
it seems obvious to me that ANY vehicle turning from the wrong lane
and /or not looking before doing so to insure it is not going to crush
a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully on the road is at fault. Period.

There is no "need" to blindly turn a truck where the driver can not
see. If the truck is unable to be driven on the road without doing so
then we should consider the possibility that the truck is not road
worthy in the city environment and smaller more expensive vehicles
should be used.

Do we really want trucks, cars, or bikes driven blindly?

Wayne

  #8  
Old May 23rd 12, 01:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_3_]
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Posts: 1,900
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On 05/22/2012 04:22 PM, Wayne wrote:
A cyclist should avoid trucks' blind spots like the plague. That said
it seems obvious to me that ANY vehicle turning from the wrong lane
and /or not looking before doing so to insure it is not going to crush
a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully on the road is at fault. Period.

There is no "need" to blindly turn a truck where the driver can not
see. If the truck is unable to be driven on the road without doing so
then we should consider the possibility that the truck is not road
worthy in the city environment and smaller more expensive vehicles
should be used.

Do we really want trucks, cars, or bikes driven blindly?



Of course not. We, as cyclists should be lobbying to prevent these
accidents. In Montreal there are problems with snow ploughs and trucks
killing people when they fall under the truck. Due in part to the
cycling lobby, they are putting "fenders" on the side of them to prevent
this, installing different mirrors and starting an education program.

Same thing with buses. A cyclist was killed by a bus last year. It was
mostly the rider's fault for trying to pass a bus on the right but the
drivers went to classes to teach them to be alert to cyclists on the
road. Now the bus drivers are the ones that are stopping to wave us
through.

Unfortunately, some people would prefer to use this sort of news as
anti-infrastructure arguments. Posting subjects like this implying that
the cycling infrastructure was somehow at fault. I don't think that the
bike lane had anything to do with this.
  #9  
Old May 23rd 12, 03:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay Beattie
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Posts: 4,322
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On May 23, 5:36*am, Duane wrote:
On 05/22/2012 04:22 PM, Wayne wrote:

A cyclist should avoid trucks' blind spots like the plague. *That said
it seems obvious to me that ANY vehicle turning from the wrong lane
and /or not looking before doing so to insure it is not going to crush
a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully on the road is at fault. *Period.


There is no "need" to blindly turn a truck where the driver can not
see. *If the truck is unable to be driven on the road without doing so
then we should consider the possibility that the truck is not road
worthy in the city environment and smaller more expensive vehicles
should be used.


Do we really want trucks, cars, or bikes driven blindly?


Of course not. *We, as cyclists should be lobbying to prevent these
accidents. *In Montreal there are problems with snow ploughs and trucks
killing people when they fall under the truck. *Due in part to the
cycling lobby, they are putting "fenders" on the side of them to prevent
this, installing different mirrors and starting an education program.

Same thing with buses. *A cyclist was killed by a bus last year. *It was
mostly the rider's fault for trying to pass a bus on the right but the
drivers went to classes to teach them to be alert to cyclists on the
road. *Now the bus drivers are the ones that are stopping to wave us
through.

Unfortunately, some people would prefer to use this sort of news as
anti-infrastructure arguments. *Posting subjects like this implying that
the cycling infrastructure was somehow at fault. *I don't think that the
bike lane had anything to do with this.


I'm not against infrastructure. My point is that infrastructure is
not a guaranty of safety, as it is sometimes sold here in Portland. In
fact, infrastructure engineering and bicycle laws in Portland may
invite right hook accidents. http://www.commuteorlando.com/onther...tions/bikebox/

The truck cannot occupy the bike lane (unlike California, where the
truck would be required to merge in to the bike lane), and right of
way is not clear, i.e. the truck was there first and is signalling
and, in any other state, would have right of way -- yet it must yield
to on-coming bicycle traffic. Under Oregon law, the truck (or car) is
in a situation where it has to execute a right turn from the "second"
lane over -- like exiting a highway from the second lane, in constant
threat of a right hook accident.

I'm amazed Frank has not chimed in that the accident would have been
avoided if the cyclist had taken the lane and ignored the bike lane.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #10  
Old May 24th 12, 05:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX

On May 23, 7:04 am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On May 23, 5:36 am, Duane wrote:



On 05/22/2012 04:22 PM, Wayne wrote:


A cyclist should avoid trucks' blind spots like the plague. That said
it seems obvious to me that ANY vehicle turning from the wrong lane
and /or not looking before doing so to insure it is not going to crush
a vehicle or pedestrian lawfully on the road is at fault. Period.


There is no "need" to blindly turn a truck where the driver can not
see. If the truck is unable to be driven on the road without doing so
then we should consider the possibility that the truck is not road
worthy in the city environment and smaller more expensive vehicles
should be used.


Do we really want trucks, cars, or bikes driven blindly?


Of course not. We, as cyclists should be lobbying to prevent these
accidents. In Montreal there are problems with snow ploughs and trucks
killing people when they fall under the truck. Due in part to the
cycling lobby, they are putting "fenders" on the side of them to prevent
this, installing different mirrors and starting an education program.


Same thing with buses. A cyclist was killed by a bus last year. It was
mostly the rider's fault for trying to pass a bus on the right but the
drivers went to classes to teach them to be alert to cyclists on the
road. Now the bus drivers are the ones that are stopping to wave us
through.


Unfortunately, some people would prefer to use this sort of news as
anti-infrastructure arguments. Posting subjects like this implying that
the cycling infrastructure was somehow at fault. I don't think that the
bike lane had anything to do with this.


I'm not against infrastructure. My point is that infrastructure is
not a guaranty of safety, as it is sometimes sold here in Portland. In
fact, infrastructure engineering and bicycle laws in Portland may
invite right hook accidents.http://www.commuteorlando.com/onther...tions/bikebox/


People just shouldn't make more of anything than what it is. My
irreverence may be disdained by more orderly citizens, but I see paint
for what it is.

The truck cannot occupy the bike lane (unlike California, where the
truck would be required to merge in to the bike lane), and right of
way is not clear, i.e. the truck was there first and is signalling
and, in any other state, would have right of way -- yet it must yield
to on-coming bicycle traffic. Under Oregon law, the truck (or car) is
in a situation where it has to execute a right turn from the "second"
lane over -- like exiting a highway from the second lane, in constant
threat of a right hook accident.


Right hooks are a stressful bugaboo; but anybody should know that cars
and trucks are apt to make turns, that drivers aren't necessarily
going to notice bicyclists, and may disregard them (or worse) when
they do.

You can estimate some probability of any vehicle making a turn at any
given intersection - especially if you know the area (that FedEx truck
is almost certainly going to turn down there toward the nearby
distribution center, the '86 Buick with the gray hair sticking just
above the dash is pretty apt to turn into Walgreens, *lots* of folks
be turning into McDonalds at lunch time, watch out for that truck
swinging *away*), and there are lots of clues that let give you some
idea how aware and cooperative and predictable any given driver is
going to be, but you have to assume that anybody *might* go anywhere
they possibly can.

Situational awareness includes *everything* that could possibly
happen. (Of course anything is possible, but on a continuum that
extends to infinite improbability :-) Understand the risk, and don't
commit yourself to a rock and hard place unless you accept it
yourself. Physics trumps.

The first rule of wildland firefighting is know your escape route.
Keep your options open.

I'm amazed Frank has not chimed in that the accident would have been
avoided if the cyclist had taken the lane and ignored the bike lane.


That's one option - with another whole set of dynamics.
 




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