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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure



 
 
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  #91  
Old August 16th 17, 01:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 971
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

John B. writes:

On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:20:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 12:15:36 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-12 07:24,
wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 5:45:38 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf






This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of
distance, and the highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field
for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting
the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing
to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a
county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses
are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people
they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not
useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with
a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike
trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I
looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would
have taken far longer than just biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434




"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence
to every destination is ridiculous.

And my point is that IF you have separate bicycle facilities like
that car drivers again believe you don't belong on their roads.


My experience is that some of them believe that anyhow regardlesss of
whether there is a bike path or not. Those are the ones deliberately
passing closely or speeding up to the cyclist and the lean on the horn.

Out of curiosity, how many is that?

Here, and I am aware that it a totally different culture and different
laws, I can't even remember when anyone seemed to deliberately pass
closely or leaned on the horn.

Not to say that people haven't passed me closely but no closer then
they did the car in front of me, and this close passing is always in
very heavy traffic at an almost crawling speed. And yes people
occasionally blow the horn but it is more of a "I see you" sort of
beep.

Is traffic in the U.S. really as bad as you portray?


A couple of blocks from my home is a store. A bike lane runs along
the curb and then ends abruptly a hundred feet from the
intersection. This is a right turn must turn right lane plus there
are four driveways in and out of the shopping center.

So I ride in the middle lane which ends up going straight, instead of
in the dangerous bike lane. Almost every time I do that I have
people whom I would BLOCK if I were in the bike lane screaming at me
to get in the bike lane.

You have to picture this - people are driving in the #2 lane and at
the last second pulling into the #3 lane simply to give me
grief. And since this is only a couple of blocks from my house I go
this way almost every ride.

Going in the opposite direction is almost the same situation. The #2
lane is a right turn only and people will drive in that with a
perfectly clear #1 lane just to pass close to me. Again - EVERY TIME
that I go out with only rare exceptions. They will do this even when
you can look ahead and see a heavy truck blocking part of the right
lane.

So don't use the excuse that this doesn't happen too
frequently. Every ride I go on at lease once I get a close pass of
someone yelling at me to get out of the way. And even when I'm in a
bike lane - people driving and the road bending right will NOT stay
in their lane - they will pull almost to the curb crossing
completely over the bike lane.

The bike lanes are directly adjacent to the parking lane and an SUV
or a two door door will totally cover the bike lane and traffic will
speed up in order to force you to stop instead of allowing you to go
around the blockage.

Sunday on two occasions cars almost turned left into me because they
misjudged my speed. And I was wearing a dayglow green jacket.

None of Joerg's complaints are unfounded. Because I refuse to be
pushed off of a public road doesn't mean that these sorts of things
do not frighten the overwhelming majority of people that could be
bike riders.

I find it offensive to put up with these things every ride and have
people on this group pretend that it's all in my or Joerg's
head. The only thing I can think is that people that do not see this
are either blind or stupid.


The Tourist Authority of Thailand dreamed up the nickname "The Land of
Smiles" as an indication of how friendly the people are here. I can
only assume that your country is named after an orifice in the other
end of the body.


"The land of puckers"? "The land of squirts"?

Given that you are, from your writings, no longer employed one can
only speculate on why you don't move. Or is the entire country that
way?
--
Cheers,

John B.


--
Ads
  #92  
Old August 16th 17, 03:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,001
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:30:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

That I don't understand. What ballast were you walking on?


The ballast that holds the ties in place. It's coarser than gravel,
more uniform in size, and doesn't contain any fines. Around here, the
ballast extends for a considerable distance to each side of the
tracks.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
  #93  
Old August 16th 17, 05:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Posts: 6,950
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:38:27 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:30:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

That I don't understand. What ballast were you walking on?


The ballast that holds the ties in place. It's coarser than gravel,
more uniform in size, and doesn't contain any fines. Around here, the
ballast extends for a considerable distance to each side of the
tracks.


In other words, it's the super-coarse gravel that holds up railroad tracks. In
my area, the rocks are almost the size of baseballs. Amazingly, I once saw
two guys riding it on road bikes or, more likely, "gravel bikes." They didn't
look like they were having much fun, though.

I've ridden a mountain bike on it, by dropping my air pressure to maybe 20 psi.
Ugly stuff, unless you're riding inside the train.

- Frank Krygowski
  #94  
Old August 16th 17, 02:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,624
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-15 16:49, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:05:08 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 23:15, John B. wrote:


[...]

Given that the Virgin Group (net worth 5 - 5.5 billion Sterling,
estimated in 2014) started with Richard Branson selling bootleg
records out of the trunk of his car, it doesn't sound like a business
is too difficult to get going in Europe.



Look at where he does most of his business though.


Today, yes.

The point though was that Branson started a business selling bootleg
records from the trunk of his car and built it into a billion dollar
business. Although you argue that there is so much to impede a startup
business in Europe.



Selling bootleg records is illegal in Britain and almost anywhere else
if that hasn't occurred to you yet. You can start a "business" that way
in any country as long as they don't arrest you.

I meant starting the honest way. I did, in Europe. And in the US.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #95  
Old August 16th 17, 02:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,624
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-15 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:09:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 20:09, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... After Prop 13, there
are few property tax dollars for transportation projects. Maybe SMS
can weigh in on this. But I do know you pay practically nothing for
property tax. I probably paid that much 20 years ago for a dinger
house in a sketchy part of town.


Why did you do that?


Assuming that you are a normal, intelligent person the question might
arise as to why you immigrated almost half way round the world to
settle in a state with, perhaps the highest tax burden in the U.S.,
and now complain about it?



Sometimes people have to do job-related moves.

Then, like in my case, one can hardly predict when years later a IMO not
very competent governor ruins the works. Oh well, some day we might
move. Southern Utah looks good. So does Northern Arizona.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #96  
Old August 17th 17, 01:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,557
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:52:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 16:49, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:05:08 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 23:15, John B. wrote:


[...]

Given that the Virgin Group (net worth 5 - 5.5 billion Sterling,
estimated in 2014) started with Richard Branson selling bootleg
records out of the trunk of his car, it doesn't sound like a business
is too difficult to get going in Europe.


Look at where he does most of his business though.


Today, yes.

The point though was that Branson started a business selling bootleg
records from the trunk of his car and built it into a billion dollar
business. Although you argue that there is so much to impede a startup
business in Europe.



Selling bootleg records is illegal in Britain and almost anywhere else
if that hasn't occurred to you yet. You can start a "business" that way
in any country as long as they don't arrest you.


Certainly. As Branson described it they were records made in France
and brought into England without paying import duty.

I meant starting the honest way. I did, in Europe. And in the US.


The point is that in spite of your claim of how difficult it is to
start a business in Europe Branson started a multi-billion quid
business in the simplest way possible, selling stuff out of the trunk
of his car. Thus, it appears that starting a business is not that
difficult.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #97  
Old August 17th 17, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,557
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:55:26 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:09:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 20:09, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... After Prop 13, there
are few property tax dollars for transportation projects. Maybe SMS
can weigh in on this. But I do know you pay practically nothing for
property tax. I probably paid that much 20 years ago for a dinger
house in a sketchy part of town.


Why did you do that?


Assuming that you are a normal, intelligent person the question might
arise as to why you immigrated almost half way round the world to
settle in a state with, perhaps the highest tax burden in the U.S.,
and now complain about it?



Sometimes people have to do job-related moves.

Ah, you mean that design of small electronic devise was no longer done
in Europe so one had to immigrate the New World?

Then, like in my case, one can hardly predict when years later a IMO not
very competent governor ruins the works. Oh well, some day we might
move. Southern Utah looks good. So does Northern Arizona.


But Good Lord! How else can the government get the money to build the
bicycle paths that you demand in the name of SAFETY unless they DO
increase taxes?

After all, any suggestion of asking the bicycling public to pay for
their tiny little highways meets with a united front - "WE DON'T WANNA
PAY!" So what else can the state do? Why, tax everyone. In this way
the bicycling fanatics won't be singled out as if everyone is taxed
then everyone is treated equally. Political correctness at its best!
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #98  
Old August 17th 17, 02:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,001
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:43:39 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:

I could fit four gallons of milk into the panniers, and a gallon
weighs sixteen pounds, so in theory the bike could weigh more than a
hundred pounds.


Oops! I *thought* something didn't feel right. A gallon weighs
*eight* pounds, so I doubt that the bike has ever weighed more than
seventy pounds.

Seventy pounds is still a lot to lift over a railroad track. I
usually lift one end at a time, if I need to cross tracks after
shopping.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #99  
Old August 17th 17, 06:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,557
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:59:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:43:39 -0300, Joy Beeson
wrote:

I could fit four gallons of milk into the panniers, and a gallon
weighs sixteen pounds, so in theory the bike could weigh more than a
hundred pounds.


Oops! I *thought* something didn't feel right. A gallon weighs
*eight* pounds, so I doubt that the bike has ever weighed more than
seventy pounds.

Seventy pounds is still a lot to lift over a railroad track. I
usually lift one end at a time, if I need to cross tracks after
shopping.


But milk is heavier then water :-)
Whole milk weighs in the neighborhood of 8.6 lbs/gal. Depending, of
course, on the solids content.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #100  
Old August 17th 17, 07:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,624
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-16 17:41, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:55:26 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 07:09:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 20:09, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... After Prop 13, there
are few property tax dollars for transportation projects. Maybe SMS
can weigh in on this. But I do know you pay practically nothing for
property tax. I probably paid that much 20 years ago for a dinger
house in a sketchy part of town.


Why did you do that?

Assuming that you are a normal, intelligent person the question might
arise as to why you immigrated almost half way round the world to
settle in a state with, perhaps the highest tax burden in the U.S.,
and now complain about it?



Sometimes people have to do job-related moves.

Ah, you mean that design of small electronic devise was no longer done
in Europe so one had to immigrate the New World?


Cutting edge medical ultrasound technology had dried up rather fast over
there. That was my field of work.


Then, like in my case, one can hardly predict when years later a IMO not
very competent governor ruins the works. Oh well, some day we might
move. Southern Utah looks good. So does Northern Arizona.


But Good Lord! How else can the government get the money to build the
bicycle paths that you demand in the name of SAFETY unless they DO
increase taxes?


They increase taxes to give government workers a whopping 50% retirement
raise. Now the local and state bureaucracies no longer know how they are
ever going to pay for that.


After all, any suggestion of asking the bicycling public to pay for
their tiny little highways meets with a united front - "WE DON'T WANNA
PAY!" So what else can the state do? Why, tax everyone. In this way
the bicycling fanatics won't be singled out as if everyone is taxed
then everyone is treated equally. Political correctness at its best!



No. Privatize. Hire non-government contractors to build bike paths. That
is cheaper and result in better quality. We've got some prime examples
in my area how not to do it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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