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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 13th 17, 04:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 7:23:58 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf




This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses are
wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people they are
merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not useful in any way.


I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with a guy
who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike trail. But
when we first moved to town and had just one car, I looked into riding a
bus the seven or so miles to work. It would have taken far longer than
just biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434

"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski


Yep. I was visiting in Anaheim and wanted to visit Griffith Observatory. 35 miles driving. 6.5 hours bus travel time plus waits at stops. Biked there in 4 hours.
Ads
  #42  
Old August 13th 17, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,491
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:03:33 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 09:34:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:05:55 -0700, sms
wrote:

https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf

This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate.


How many of the US deaths were due to getting hit by a drunk driver?
Of the bicycle fatalities which I'm somewhat familiar, two were from
drunk drivers and one was from a heart attack.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cyclist+killed+by+drunk+driver
"Investigators, however, have never provided a reasonable
explanation how (the cyclist), struck from behind, shares
responsibility for his own death..."

I'm also wondering if the statistics from other countries include or
exclude drunk drivers and heart attacks. Statistics without sources
are worthless.

Want to make the roads really safe for cyclists? Just execute drunk
drivers on the spot. Bicycle fatality statistics should drop rapidly.
However, I'm not sure it will affect the overall picture as some
cycling accident investigations seem to follow a "blame the victim"
mentality:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-bicyclists-drivers-crashes-statistics-2014nov22-story.html


There are statistics that show the percent of drivers, both bicycle
and auto, who have imbibed.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles
Among bicyclists ages 16 and older who were killed in 2015, 23 percent
had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) at or above 0.08 percent.

https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/
Some 21 percent of autopsies for New York City bicyclists who died
within three hours of their accidents detected alcohol in the body,
according to a Department of Health and Mental Hygiene study that
examined fatal bicycling accidents in New York City from 1996 to 2005.

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...027-story.html
( referring to fatalities ) 28% of riders age 16 and older had blood
alcohol concentrations of .08% or higher, the level at which someone
is considered impaired.

I googled on "bicycle fatalities+cyclist who have high BAC" and there
were 1,050,000 hits.


Thanks for digging out the numbers.

So, if about 25% of bicycle fatalities were due to drunk cycling, and
all the various suggestions for improving infrastructure, facilities,
and services were 100% effective at eliminating the remaining
non-alcohol related bicycle fatalities, we would still be dealing with
a sizeable number of cycling fatalities. Wonderful.

Of course, the experts know the cause of all this drunk bicycle
riding. It's the increase in bicycle commuting:
"More bicyclists, many helmetless and drunk, dying"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bicycle-deaths-trends-idUSKCN0IU23Y20141110
"The reason is there’s simply more biking,"
"We know what’s going on out there," he said. "There’s a
lot more commuting by adults."
So, there you have it. Selling bicycles to drunk drivers is
increasing fatalities, while about 25% of bicycle commuters ride
drunk. Brilliant observations and logic.

I have a different theory. My palatial office is located next to a
bridge which is heavily used by the homeless to travel between the
local homeless shelter and the panhandling areas. Almost all of them
ride shiny new bicycles, all most likely stolen. I've come very close
to hitting bicyclists when leaving my office at night because they
tend to wear dark clothes, have no bicycle lighting, ride on parts of
the street where I would not expect them, and tend to ride rather
erratically. None wear helmets. I've had a few confrontations and
found about 25% to be drunk, drugged, and/or mentally defective. What
chance would you think these homeless bicycle riders have in traffic?
If the bicycle accident statistics included data by economic status,
the picture might be clearer.

Maybe a bicycle lock with a built in breath analyzer?
Bicycle dealers should run a background check on prospective buyers
for prior cycling under the influence convictions?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #43  
Old August 13th 17, 05:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,292
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 22:11, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 3:15:31 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 12:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf





This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434



"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two. Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).

Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's easier
to drive.


There are communities that do the implementation correctly and there are
those which don't. Constantly lamenting the latter is not helpful. One
has to look at the successful ones and there are whole countries who
were successful. Stop criticizing everything and book a nice long
bicycle vacation in the Netherlands. Or Denmark.


One day I may; ...



Until then it would be wise to defer judgment.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #44  
Old August 13th 17, 05:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,292
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 23:45, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:15:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-12 12:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf





This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434



"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two. Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).

Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's easier
to drive.


There are communities that do the implementation correctly and there are
those which don't. Constantly lamenting the latter is not helpful. One
has to look at the successful ones and there are whole countries who
were successful. Stop criticizing everything and book a nice long
bicycle vacation in the Netherlands. Or Denmark.


The point that you, and others, seems to be missing was that Holland
started their bicycle transportation planning just after WW I ended.
In the 1920's bicycles were used in 80% of the distance of all trips
made. By the 1950's there were 400 bicycle parking facilities in
Amsterdam - some 70,000 parking spaces.

The first comprehensive bicycle census in Amsterdam
was held in 1930. 250 intersections were monitored on a single day
from 6.30 am until 6.30 pm. On the section from Leidsestraat
to Leidseplein 30,000 cyclists passed during the period and some 1100
of whom passed by between 8.45 and 9.00 am!

Now compare that data with the U.S.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdbIhL0eso

This is about 50mi from here. So yes, it is possible.


Auto's were relatively cheap even before WW I. In 1910 Ford produced
12,000 cars. In 1914 Ford built more automobiles then all other car
makers combined. A Ford cost $900 1910 and $390 in 1915.
My father, who came from a normal (i.e., not wealthy) New England
farming family, had a Ford when he went to collage in 1926.



We have to stop lamenting "Oh, we didn't start on the correct foot 100
years ago so to heck with it, let's just throw in the towel". We ought
to learn from other countries and that goes vice-versa as well. For
example, many bike path designs in Germany are thoroughly botched and
they could learn from ... gasp ... drum roll ... the US how to do a
better design. Not quantity but design.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #45  
Old August 13th 17, 11:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,941
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 8/13/2017 7:39 AM, Joerg wrote:

Your probably the only person here who considers a mountain bike trail
to be
a valid transportational facility. Those things have a lower
percentage of
practical (vs. recreational) use than even a farm country rail trail.


Not around here. People in my area know how to handle a mountain bike.
It does not scare them.


In the Bay Area there are several unpaved trails that are used for
transportation. They are commonly referred to as mountain bike trails
even though they aren't difficult trails, but you do want to have
mountain bike type equipment to ride on them since in the summer there's
a lot of sand and in the winter a lot of mud. The one I've been on is
out in the Baylands behind NASA. There's been talk about paving it, but
it hasn't happened. There was another one alongside a creek that went
under 101 over to Intel and beyond, and that one was finally paved.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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  #46  
Old August 13th 17, 11:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,941
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 8/12/2017 12:41 PM, Joerg wrote:

Bicycles are not allowed on Hwy 50, that's the key problem. If you want


There's no other road?! I recall when they opened part of I-280 to
bicycles because they build I-280 partially on the old CA35 and there
was no good alternate. Later they built a paved trail that bypassed the
freeway section but they still allow bicycles on that short stretch of
I-280, it was a big battle to get Caltrans to allow bicycles on the
freeway even though it was only one exit and there is a good shoulder.
On I-80 there are some sections between Cisco Grove and US20 to Nevada
City with no frontage road in the Sierras and you had to use I-80--I got
a flat tire on one of those sections.


---
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  #47  
Old August 14th 17, 02:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,060
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 8/13/2017 12:16 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 23:45, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:15:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-12 12:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf






This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434




"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a
bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one
section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two.
Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others
who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through
nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).

Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere
to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's
easier
to drive.


There are communities that do the implementation correctly and there are
those which don't. Constantly lamenting the latter is not helpful. One
has to look at the successful ones and there are whole countries who
were successful. Stop criticizing everything and book a nice long
bicycle vacation in the Netherlands. Or Denmark.


The point that you, and others, seems to be missing was that Holland
started their bicycle transportation planning just after WW I ended.
In the 1920's bicycles were used in 80% of the distance of all trips
made. By the 1950's there were 400 bicycle parking facilities in
Amsterdam - some 70,000 parking spaces.

The first comprehensive bicycle census in Amsterdam
was held in 1930. 250 intersections were monitored on a single day
from 6.30 am until 6.30 pm. On the section from Leidsestraat
to Leidseplein 30,000 cyclists passed during the period and some 1100
of whom passed by between 8.45 and 9.00 am!

Now compare that data with the U.S.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdbIhL0eso

This is about 50mi from here. So yes, it is possible.


sigh That's a video taken at a college campus that actively dissuades
the use of cars on campus. Anyone can read about U.C. Davis and its
bike-related history.

As I've said, the key element is dissuading car traffic. Without that,
bike infrastructure is almost never capable of generating more than 3%
bike mode share.

Auto's were relatively cheap even before WW I. In 1910 Ford produced
12,000 cars. In 1914 Ford built more automobiles then all other car
makers combined. A Ford cost $900 1910 and $390 in 1915.
My father, who came from a normal (i.e., not wealthy) New England
farming family, had a Ford when he went to collage in 1926.



We have to stop lamenting "Oh, we didn't start on the correct foot 100
years ago so to heck with it, let's just throw in the towel". We ought
to learn from other countries and that goes vice-versa as well.


That's a good idea only if you somehow learn to turn the United States
into a nation smaller than West Virginia, but almost dead flat.

Also, give it at least four times higher population density to equal
Denmark's, or twelve times higher to equal Netherlands'. Somehow give it
a long history of high utility bike mode share long before bike
facilities. Make sure the average trip distance is just a couple miles
as well. Do away with most of the hot weather, too. And as mentioned, do
whatever you can to dissuade use of private cars.

That's what's behind Netherlands' and Denmark's current bike mode share.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #48  
Old August 14th 17, 02:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,060
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 8/13/2017 3:15 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:54:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

My experience is that some of them believe that anyhow regardlesss of
whether there is a bike path or not. Those are the ones deliberately
passing closely or speeding up to the cyclist and the lean on the horn.


Out of curiosity, how many is that?

Here, and I am aware that it a totally different culture and different
laws, I can't even remember when anyone seemed to deliberately pass
closely or leaned on the horn.

Not to say that people haven't passed me closely but no closer then
they did the car in front of me, and this close passing is always in
very heavy traffic at an almost crawling speed. And yes people
occasionally blow the horn but it is more of a "I see you" sort of
beep.

Is traffic in the U.S. really as bad as you portray?


Some people here complain about frequent close passes. It happens to me
only rarely - I'd say roughly once per 100 miles of riding, which would
be once in at least 1000 cars. And almost none of those include any horn
blaring or yelling.

But then, I tend to ride more toward lane center than many cyclists.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #49  
Old August 14th 17, 02:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,060
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 8/13/2017 10:39 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 22:26, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 3:35:16 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 12:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.

Indeed. I chose my residence carefully, so transporational cycling
was possible.
Joerg should have done the same.

Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never
get expanded.

So what have you done to establish a cycling culture there? All
we've heard
about is whining that riding there is dangerous.


Going to meeting...


Like what? I got appointed to a committee that got 3 federal grants
for bike &
pedestrian projects. I single-handedly got another bike/ped path
paved. I was
on a statewide committee to evaluate other bike/ped grants. I
initiated two
bike transportation map projects, and gathered the volunteers and
officials to
work on them. I've attended many meetings on transportation projects,
and
caused definite changes on some of the projects.


I guess most of us know you are good at tooting your own horn.


Oh please, I haven't listed half of what I've done. Why not toot yours
in some detail?

.... If you've really accomplished something, that is.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #50  
Old August 14th 17, 01:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,883
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 6:42:16 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/13/2017 12:16 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 23:45, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:15:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-12 12:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf






This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434




"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a
bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one
section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two.
Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others
who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through
nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).

Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere
to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's
easier
to drive.


There are communities that do the implementation correctly and there are
those which don't. Constantly lamenting the latter is not helpful. One
has to look at the successful ones and there are whole countries who
were successful. Stop criticizing everything and book a nice long
bicycle vacation in the Netherlands. Or Denmark.

The point that you, and others, seems to be missing was that Holland
started their bicycle transportation planning just after WW I ended.
In the 1920's bicycles were used in 80% of the distance of all trips
made. By the 1950's there were 400 bicycle parking facilities in
Amsterdam - some 70,000 parking spaces.

The first comprehensive bicycle census in Amsterdam
was held in 1930. 250 intersections were monitored on a single day
from 6.30 am until 6.30 pm. On the section from Leidsestraat
to Leidseplein 30,000 cyclists passed during the period and some 1100
of whom passed by between 8.45 and 9.00 am!

Now compare that data with the U.S.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdbIhL0eso

This is about 50mi from here. So yes, it is possible.


sigh That's a video taken at a college campus that actively dissuades
the use of cars on campus. Anyone can read about U.C. Davis and its
bike-related history.

As I've said, the key element is dissuading car traffic. Without that,
bike infrastructure is almost never capable of generating more than 3%
bike mode share.

Auto's were relatively cheap even before WW I. In 1910 Ford produced
12,000 cars. In 1914 Ford built more automobiles then all other car
makers combined. A Ford cost $900 1910 and $390 in 1915.
My father, who came from a normal (i.e., not wealthy) New England
farming family, had a Ford when he went to collage in 1926.



We have to stop lamenting "Oh, we didn't start on the correct foot 100
years ago so to heck with it, let's just throw in the towel". We ought
to learn from other countries and that goes vice-versa as well.


That's a good idea only if you somehow learn to turn the United States
into a nation smaller than West Virginia, but almost dead flat.

Also, give it at least four times higher population density to equal
Denmark's, or twelve times higher to equal Netherlands'. Somehow give it
a long history of high utility bike mode share long before bike
facilities. Make sure the average trip distance is just a couple miles
as well. Do away with most of the hot weather, too. And as mentioned, do
whatever you can to dissuade use of private cars.

That's what's behind Netherlands' and Denmark's current bike mode share.


Frank - most major cities in the US have the population and the density. A really good local bike shop is giving it up after five years of trying because they just can't sell enough bikes or outsell the Internet on components.
 




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