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  #1  
Old September 9th 17, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 2,772
Default Road Discs

So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.







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  #2  
Old September 10th 17, 01:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,256
Default Road Discs

I have no experience with disc brakes. None. If building my new dream bike, it would be rim brake. I know rim brakes. Rim brakes are easy to work on. I'm not against learning new things, like disc brakes. But don't see the need. They are not as simple to work on or understand as rim brakes. In all my riding, I've always been able to stop just fine with rim brakes. Loaded touring bike down the Alps, Dolomites, Rockys. Never a problem. Never over heated a rim or burnt up brake pads. I've also ridden in rain and stopped just fine too. Maybe in emergency situations in the rain, the performance improvement of disc would matter. Maybe. But I don't ride crazy and ever need to stop instantly. And disc brakes still need time, distance to stop just like rim brakes. Maybe less distance but I don't see that ever really mattering to me. So my dream bike of the future would have rim brakes.
  #3  
Old September 10th 17, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Posts: 1,301
Default Road Discs

jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my
Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've
done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel
bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport
riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike
that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be
available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in
dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix
and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask
because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last
nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry
weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would
be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm
not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue
because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but
to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of
the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.









Well my 2 cents - you say you won't be riding it in any of the conditions
that seem to be indicative for disc brakes. So, in my opinion waiting
until December makes no sense. I'd go for the bike I can get now.

Who the f*ck you calling a curmudgeon? :-).

--
duane
  #4  
Old September 10th 17, 06:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,567
Default Road Discs

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


Firstly it is not an "Antique". It is a "Classic".
(ask Andrew I believe he drives one :-)

Secondly buy whatever YOU want.
(one assumes you married the one YOU wanted and from your posts that
seems to have worked out pretty well :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #5  
Old September 10th 17, 12:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
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Posts: 40
Default Road Discs

On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.

Ned
  #6  
Old September 10th 17, 01:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 107
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 12:28:59 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


That would be a difficult choice for me if I had to buy a new road bike now.. Waiting a couple of months would not be an argument, that is silly. Disc for road bikes are coming that is for sure and they do brake an order of a magnitude better than rim brakes in the wet which I found out again during my trip this year to the Dolomites in bad weather. Set up properly they are very low maintenance (my cross bike). The only argument against them is the weight penalty of about 500 to 1000 grams. In one of the last issues of TOUR magazine they measured no aero penalty to their and my surprise. Once the pro riders going to use disc brakes rim brakes will get obsolete if you like it or not. What I see is that more and more road bikes offered for the next season are disc only...

Lou
  #7  
Old September 10th 17, 04:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,346
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.

2. Because the whole idea is power the leverage has to be effectively very high. This means the distance of motion must be very low since the lever has limited motion due to your hand size. So brake pads are VERY thin and because they are small they wear very rapidly.

3. Yes it's easier to replace a disk than a rim. In 40 years of riding I've had to replace one rim from brake pad wear. Since I built many wheels it took me a half hour from start to finish. But of course I do have a wheel stand and spoke tools. Now in Switzerland you may have a hell of a lot more sharp and dangerous descents than we do around here but in the last five years on just ONE altimeter that I used on only some of my bikes I do have 57,000 feet of climbing shown. I have worn some brake shoes to the extent that I replaced them. But only on super-light alloy wheels have I ever shown extensive wear. And I find buying new wheels generally cheaper than buying a new rim. I just bought two sets of Campy Scirocco CX's (stronger than the road version) for $240 per set. These are cheap wheels but I am getting tired of spokes breaking on the lighter road wheels.
  #8  
Old September 10th 17, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,033
Default Road Discs

On 9/9/2017 5:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.








No suggestion on your specific question but speaking as an
Industry Professional, I think my record for selling one
customer his "final perfect bike to last the rest of my
life" is six bicycles, 3 or 4 is amazingly common. Many of
those guys will be back again too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #9  
Old September 10th 17, 05:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,627
Default Road Discs

On 2017-09-09 15:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my
Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night.
I've done that many times ...



Consider an alarm that starts blaring in the house if left open and no
movement in the area for xx minutes. Or an automatic (but safe) closure
function that can be disabled during times you work in there. A bright
or blinking light in the hallway or something might already suffice. It
would alert you or your family that the garage is still open. Especially
at night before bed time when you turn off all light but there is this
remaining weird glow in the hallway.

I've had days when I walked the dogs and someone's garage was open, with
nice CF bikes and expensive tools in there, nobody around. Then I ring
their door bell and it's usually "Oh dang! Thanks!".


... -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a
gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a
great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring
sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a
nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model
will not be available until December -- which really means that I get
to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim
brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the
Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong
group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, ...



ahem ... grumble


...but if you were
buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It
will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad
luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so
light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero
penalty with discs.


Disc. 100%. If my current road bike ever needs to be replaced disc
brakes are a non-negotiable requirement for me. Preferably hydraulic
though that's not common with brifters which I wouldn't need but any
road or CX bikes seems to have these days.


My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance
issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim
brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are
going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!


Nah. Rim brake pads will be available for decades. At least until you
and I are in a nursing home.

However, dry weather is not always that dry. Consider a big rain storm
of which you have many up there. Then the sun comes out and you think
that this ought to be the perfect time to ride. Still nice and cool but
no rain. At 20mph you go through a long puddle, no big deal. Then right
afterwards grandpa Miller doesn't see you and pulls out of the gas
station right in front of you. You hit the brakes ... two seconds of ...
nothing.

I even had brake delay when I rode through overspray from landscaping
sprinklers next to the road. On a 100F day that is a refreshing event.
Until you need the brakes right there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #10  
Old September 10th 17, 06:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,033
Default Road Discs

On 9/10/2017 11:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-09 15:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and
last weak my
Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all
night.
I've done that many times ...



Consider an alarm that starts blaring in the house if left
open and no movement in the area for xx minutes. Or an
automatic (but safe) closure function that can be disabled
during times you work in there. A bright or blinking light
in the hallway or something might already suffice. It would
alert you or your family that the garage is still open.
Especially at night before bed time when you turn off all
light but there is this remaining weird glow in the hallway.

I've had days when I walked the dogs and someone's garage
was open, with nice CF bikes and expensive tools in there,
nobody around. Then I ring their door bell and it's usually
"Oh dang! Thanks!".


... -- apparently one too many. I'm
down to a
gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX
(which is a
great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for
fall/winter/spring
sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got
a line on a
nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the
disc model
will not be available until December -- which really means
that I get
to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get
a rim
brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs
on the
Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely
the wrong
group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, ...



ahem ... grumble


...but if
you were
buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes
or discs? It
will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only
because of bad
luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the
bike is so
light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about
the aero
penalty with discs.


Disc. 100%. If my current road bike ever needs to be
replaced disc brakes are a non-negotiable requirement for
me. Preferably hydraulic though that's not common with
brifters which I wouldn't need but any road or CX bikes
seems to have these days.


My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a
performance
issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem
with rim
brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim
brakes are
going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an
antique!


Nah. Rim brake pads will be available for decades. At least
until you and I are in a nursing home.

However, dry weather is not always that dry. Consider a big
rain storm of which you have many up there. Then the sun
comes out and you think that this ought to be the perfect
time to ride. Still nice and cool but no rain. At 20mph you
go through a long puddle, no big deal. Then right afterwards
grandpa Miller doesn't see you and pulls out of the gas
station right in front of you. You hit the brakes ... two
seconds of ... nothing.

I even had brake delay when I rode through overspray from
landscaping sprinklers next to the road. On a 100F day that
is a refreshing event. Until you need the brakes right there.


Joerg, all the current Campagnolo Ergo shifters are
hydraulic brake and also cable compatible.
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ted-disc-brake

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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