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Damned Central Heating!



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 19th 19, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 1,261
Default Damned Central Heating!

A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of those?
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  #2  
Old March 19th 19, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 2019-03-19 11:17, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped
igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the
thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was
dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the
thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn
the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was
OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work
for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not
lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the
main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't
lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to
convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of
those?


We had that happen a long time ago and the cause was the electronic
controller board. The central propane furnace would go VROOOOP ..
PHUTAH-PHUT ... RUMBLE ... VROOOOOOOOOP ... and never stayed on anymore.

When the technician came out he exclaimed "Oh look, an old Fenwal
controller board!", saying he was amazed that it lasted this long. He
switched it out against one from another manufacturer and all was well.

I asked him to leave the old board and when probing it I found that the
triac that controls the main burner valve had gone partially bad so it
wouldn't be able to send a full current through the valve solenoid
anymore. Could have kicked myself because instead of paying a few
hundred Dollars I could have gotten one of those triac for a couple of
Dollars and replaced it. If these triac are on a separate driver board
then check that.

There is also a suction sensor, for example a flap in the intake stream
that operates a signaling switch. If that got crudded up it might at
times falsely signal a failing air draft and that would cut the main valve.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #3  
Old March 19th 19, 11:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 3/19/2019 1:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

There is also a suction sensor, for example a flap in the intake stream
that operates a signaling switch. If that got crudded up it might at
times falsely signal a failing air draft and that would cut the main valve.


This is something I wrote up for my friend regarding gas furnace
troubleshooting:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-vRaL49mqI6wiOVxkYzNILoT3qf6Vg9rne28Nb6kVuo/edit?usp=sharing.


  #4  
Old March 20th 19, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 2019-03-19 15:45, sms wrote:
On 3/19/2019 1:28 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

There is also a suction sensor, for example a flap in the intake
stream that operates a signaling switch. If that got crudded up it
might at times falsely signal a failing air draft and that would cut
the main valve.


This is something I wrote up for my friend regarding gas furnace
troubleshooting:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-vRaL49mqI6wiOVxkYzNILoT3qf6Vg9rne28Nb6kVuo/edit?usp=sharing.


Nice write-up. Though the exhaust blower is usually not a small blower
but pretty massive. Ours sounds like a turbo-charger spooling up when
you stand outside next to the unit. Probably because most of them are
not connected to a chimney.

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #5  
Old March 20th 19, 05:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:28:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-19 11:17, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped
igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the
thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was
dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the
thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn
the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was
OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work
for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not
lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the
main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't
lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to
convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of
those?


We had that happen a long time ago and the cause was the electronic
controller board. The central propane furnace would go VROOOOP ..
PHUTAH-PHUT ... RUMBLE ... VROOOOOOOOOP ... and never stayed on anymore.

When the technician came out he exclaimed "Oh look, an old Fenwal
controller board!", saying he was amazed that it lasted this long. He
switched it out against one from another manufacturer and all was well.

I asked him to leave the old board and when probing it I found that the
triac that controls the main burner valve had gone partially bad so it
wouldn't be able to send a full current through the valve solenoid
anymore. Could have kicked myself because instead of paying a few
hundred Dollars I could have gotten one of those triac for a couple of
Dollars and replaced it. If these triac are on a separate driver board
then check that.

There is also a suction sensor, for example a flap in the intake stream
that operates a signaling switch. If that got crudded up it might at
times falsely signal a failing air draft and that would cut the main valve.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/





when the technician came out again the board was showing errors of "too many tries". He pulled the connector off and spread the male connector so that it would make better connection to the main gas valve and it appears to work perfectly now. Though when the main gas valve was replaced 3 months ago it all worked fine until recently.
  #6  
Old March 20th 19, 07:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Damned Central Heating!

On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.

There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.
  #7  
Old March 20th 19, 08:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 11:09:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.

There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.


I don't know where you get that idea. Those new windmills are more than 500 meters high and they will not start turning in anything short of hurricane force winds so the "generator" is driven like a motor to keep them rotating. Any that you see not turning are turned off and may be broken. The results of all of this is those windmills have a net power DRAIN in most areas because while they generate a good deal of power when the wind is above 20 mph that is rare.

Solar farms are almost as bad. They virtually kill the environment beneath them and they have efficiency of only 22% or so when new. They age 4 times faster than is claimed and if you do not keep them clean they can fail faster than that. At 22% efficiency at high noon when the sun is directly overhead that means that they can only generate 220 watts per square meter.

A friend was planning on putting solar cells on his home in Phoenix and dragged me off to a solar show. The salesmen were taunting 20 year lifespan. I talked to the engineers and they told me soto vox that they were 5 years to 50% output if the surfaces were cleaned all the time. And this is only under perfect conditions. They are only good for output on 2 hours either side of local true noon. Any clouds greatly reduce their output.

So virtually all of that crap about "green energy" is just that. They cause 100 times more environmental damage than they supposedly prevent. Birds cannot judge a windmill speed because the ends of the blades are traveling at 200 mph. The sound from the rotating blades even being driven via motor power confuse bats and when under full wind drive make super-sonic sounds so loud that they permanently deafen the insect eating bats that are environmentally important.

All of this is well known and there are plenty of papers written on these subjects. Why does the media avoid these at all costs and continue to promote the fraud of climate change when the climate has been more or less stable since the end of the Little Ice Age?
  #8  
Old March 20th 19, 09:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike A Schwab
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Posts: 443
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was dirty or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the thermocouple of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn the full flame on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was OK and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work for six weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not lighting again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the main control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of those?


If you have propane tanks then when the temperature gets too cold you don't get enough propane evaporating from the liquid to run the furnace. Be sure when ordering for winter to get a COLD mix. Has a mix of fuels with a lower boiling point.
  #9  
Old March 20th 19, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:09:21 -0700, sms wrote:

On 3/19/2019 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

We rarely use it anymore due to the price-gouging in the propane
industry. We switched to cord wood and pellets.


No natural gas in your area? Odd for California housing developments.

There's a big move now to all-electric since the electricity can be
generated without the use of fossil fuels.


LPG prices tend to follow the natural gas prices, especially here where
they exsprt just about everything for sale overseas. Since the
politicians allowed gas exploration and export with effective nil
royalties, Australia has had to import Natural gas from overseas to meet
demand.

We've run wood for decades. It came from the tree loppers, which I guess
is what you call cord wood, but the work involved is now too much and
we've gone back to LPG.

Wood is a preferrable heating method to gas to electric. Since our wood
heater almost needs replacement, we did look at pellets, but limited
supply leading to cost gouging was a concern, plus modern heaters seem to
be tin plate these days.
  #10  
Old March 20th 19, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Damned Central Heating!

On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:01:59 -0700, Mike A Schwab wrote:

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 1:17:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A couple of months ago when it was coldest my central heating stopped
igniting. My impression from the sounds it was making was that the
thermocouple was bad or the pilot light that would be ignited was dirty
or some such so that the flame wasn't close enough to the thermocouple
of inform it that there was a real flame there and turn the full flame
on.

The repairman came out and said that the pilot and thermocouple was OK
and changed out the main gas valve. The heater appeared to work for six
weeks and then as the weather got cold again started not lighting
again.

The company sent another repairman out and he said that it was the main
control board and replaced that.

I am now $1,600 into "repairs" and sure enough - the heater isn't
lighting still.

It would appear to me at this time that there is nothing more to
replace but the pilot tube and the thermocouple. So I wonder how to
convince the repairman that there is something wrong with one of those?


If you have propane tanks then when the temperature gets too cold you
don't get enough propane evaporating from the liquid to run the furnace.
Be sure when ordering for winter to get a COLD mix. Has a mix of fuels
with a lower boiling point.


Bigger tank?
At what size tank does that happen?
Add a blanket to your tank?
OTOH, I have actually formed ice on a 9kg LPG tank, once, whilst runnng a
string of tripple ring burners for bush catering.

 




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