#81
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three questions
Doug Landau writes:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 10:50:02 AM UTC-7, davethedave wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:08:24 -0700, Doug Landau wrote: snip My van holds up a decked roof rack .... tho placement is with lathe screws or drywall/construction electric drill screws once the rig is in place n adjusted everything is bolted down with G5 .25" rod then nuts sealed with blue Loctite. In a new state eventually law will come around for a visual inspection. Really? Our lathe screw is 3/4 inch x 4 feet long. How many of those did you use for this project? What a difference an 'e' makes. You love the world and want to hug everyone. Everything is really funny and you lath a lot. -- davethedave not me im one of those poor souls who reacts the opposite way You're one of those that can't help giggling when someone loses an eye, right? -- |
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#82
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three questions
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:31:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:46:00 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: The threads have sharp edges and do a good job of shaving the edges of the hole until the screw comes loose. Replacing such a wood screw with a larger size screw will just cut a bigger hole in the deck. Good points. Nope. The screw only has one point. As long as things are moving, epoxy won't work. It's not flexible and will crack. Rubber gaskets might help if the deck is flexing, but if the damage is caused by someone walking on the deck plate, then rubber will simply increase the amount of movement. If we assume no one will walk on the plates, do they still move enough so that epoxy won't work? I can't answer that. The problem is that you haven't disclosed the type of wood decking, number of layers, thickness, condition of the wood, surface finish, preservatives used, type of deck plate, type of fasteners, size of fasteners, number of fasteners, etc. In other words, what you have to work with. I can't tell from here. If the wood is soft, soaked with water, and the fasteners have shallow threads, any movement is going to turn the soft wood in the hole to sawdust or mush. The problem is that there is no way that the deck is going to be totally rigid. Wooden boats creak and groan, which are all signs of fasteners sliding in and out of holes in the wood. It's the same noises you hear walking on a badly installed oak floor. Fastening the hull planking on expensive wooden hull yachts was often done with bronze screws and no special problems arose. Epoxy is a different nightmare. The problem is that it's great in compression, fairly good in tension, and miserable in torsion (bending). In other words, it's easy to break if you bend an epoxy glued joint, which is what might happen if someone steps on the joint. For the major structures and laminated parts on a wooden boat, epoxy is great because those are mostly in compression. It's also great for gluing in wooden hole plugs. However if you use epoxy for repairs, and the joint moves as in a wood screw holding down a moving deck plate, it can break. Using epoxy which forms a very strong and solid bond is not normally recommended on wooden constructions that are not entirely waterproofed as if the wooden structure is not waterproof it absorbs moisture changes shape while the glue joints do not. Article on the different wooden boat fixit glues: http://www.tonygrove.com/articles/boat-repair-adhesives.php The reason I put hopes in epoxy is because doing all this the dowel or "rotate" way is a lot of work. What especially makes me discouraged is all the things, already in their right places, that has to be removed first. But of course, if it needs to be done it is not something that is impossible to do. Well, if you like epoxy so much, perhaps you should sell the wooden boat and get a fiberglass and epoxy replacement? I can't tell how much time and work would be saved by using epoxy instead of wooden dowels and plugs. Think about using FH bolts, washers, and captive nuts to secure the deck plate, or just fix whatever is causing the flexing or fastener movement. FH bolts, does that require drilling down to the other side, i.e. thru the ceiling, to release the wings? I'm not suggesting drywall expanding fasteners. I'm guessing that you might have access to the underside of the deck through the cabin or bilge. If so, you can install a fastener that does not require screwing into the wood, such as a nut, bolt, and washer sandwich. Maybe a nut plate, captive nut, or pronged tee nut can be used. https://www.google.com/search?q=pronged+tee+nut+stainless&tbm=isch Perhaps it might be more useful to ask in a wooden boat forum? http://forum.woodenboat.com https://www.google.com/search?q=wooden+boat+forum Obligatory mention of bicycling: Does a wooden boat always have a wood frame bicycle for shore travel? -- Cheers, John B. |
#84
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three questions
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 10:17:17 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:22:46 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote: None of these ancient ships would be sailable without quite a bit of knowledge that is lacking - they probably aren't caulked so that the wood can expand and contract with humidity without pushing the caulking out. The caulking of a ship this large was not a hit or miss affair. You had to know exactly how much caulking to put into each joint so that in the end as the wood expanded in the water it wouldn't simply push the caulking out or splinter the boards. Remember that the planking was so heavy that cannon could bounce off. Well, as the Constitution is floating it is quite obviously caulked :-) and the under water portions of the hull do not expand and contract with humidity :-) All of the photos I've seen of the Constitution it is in dry storage. And while caulking a wooden hull is almost a lost art in the U.S. it is still practiced in other parts of the world so if that was the problem it is solvable. NO other parts of the world caulk 20" thick hulls. From the article I read on her last rebuild the hull was in such bad condition, structurally, that the Navy didn't want to take the chance of sailing her under her own power and she was towed to her present mooring. Small wooden craft could be single planked and caulked, or ship lap or double planked (and sometimes triple planked). I sailed on most of them. But fiberglas really was the best way to go. The maintenance was reduced so much it's unbelievable. That isn't necessarily correct. I've actually walked on the sunken hulk of a 4 masted schooner that was planked with a single layer of 6 inch thick planks and the Constitution was called "iron sides because some round shot bounced off in one single battle not because she was bullet proof. If you think that 20" of American oak siding only had "some round hot bouncing off" than you are unaware of naval tactics which were exactly the same until today - artillery is aimed at the water line to open the hull. Not true at all, at least in 18th century navies as capturing the ship was financially advantageous to both the officers and crew who were paid the value of the ship as determined by a navel court. Secondly 18th century cannon were smooth bore and extremely inaccurate. While firing might start at perhaps a mile range this was normally an attempt to damage the opponents mast and rigging in order to limit his ability to maneuver which would allow closing the enemy and boarding. I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. r raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra. Come off it. Every school kid that takes algebra in grade school can do that. The fact that you swam over a sunken wreck doesn't mean that there was anything left of it. Shipworm had to completely infest any wood left and there couldn't be anything other than an empty shell. -- Cheers, John B. C is the ancient mariner ! JS, everything is painted n sealed but here fiberglass is real https://www.westmarine.com/boat-paint-solvents |
#85
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three questions
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 7:17:17 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. I raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra. Come off it. Every school kid that takes algebra in grade school can do that. Then why was I called from the Golden Gate Yacht Club again and again to provide navigation even after they had GPS available? Oh, that's right - any grade school kid could navigate. Or maybe it's because I was the only one that would go up the mast in a seaway and put the jib halyard back on the masthead pulley. Try that on a 65 foot mast. |
#86
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three questions
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 8:23:27 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 27, 2017 at 7:17:17 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:52:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I've sailed on just about everything but a square rigger. I raced everything from 22' to over 50' and from day-on-the-bay to the length of the California Pacific coast. I was the navigator and watch captain. Using a sexton I could tell you the distance off-shore with simple algebra. Come off it. Every school kid that takes algebra in grade school can do that. Then why was I called from the Golden Gate Yacht Club again and again to provide navigation even after they had GPS available? Oh, that's right - any grade school kid could navigate. Or maybe it's because I was the only one that would go up the mast in a seaway and put the jib halyard back on the masthead pulley. Try that on a 65 foot mast. You got a pic of yourself up a Mast Tom? |
#87
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three questions
On 7/23/2017 6:44 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
1) What does for example 7075-T6 mean? It's a system that designates aluminum alloys (7075) and heat treatment (T6). Different countries have their own systems. I think it's a USA thing. 2) A guy has had a flat tire several times but the tire looks OK. The suspicion is, if the rim tape is too broad for the rim so it forms a flat "U" letter, and what happens is the ends cut thru the tube. Is this heard of? The rim tape is from Specialized. It looks a little broad but I wouldn't have noticed unless there was this little mystery. Dunno really. He could try trimming the strip a bit narrower with some scissors. Seems to be little to lose at this point. 3) On a boat I'm working on, there are several cases where the screws are loose in their holes. What do you typically do? Get a longer screw? Or do you use Loctite, crazy-glue, etc.? Thank you I dunno squat about boats, and even less about wood boats. I *do* know that crazy glue is water-soluble, which would seem to be the wrong thing to use on a boat. Or anything that gets wet much... I would guess you'd want to use epoxy or polyester resin. Also there is an issue of the wood condition here... I know of people who had wooden boats who let them rot away, because they weren't sealed properly at some point in the past and the wood (they said) was already gone bad. It still looked useful to /me/, but they said all the wood was too soft now to bother fixing any of it. |
#88
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three questions
I dunno squat about boats Just read this then you will know all you need to know: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...fgSLc5B6SddsM: |
#89
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three questions
With the "rotate deck plate" solution, does it
make sense to impregnate the wood below? What do you use if so? Tung? Also, does it make sense to fill the holes from the previous drillings/screws to prevent water from getting in? What do you use if so? Putty or just sawdust and wood glue? Another question, when you buy diesel, you get it in 5 l plastic cans. Is it safe to use those onboard, or should you stick to those bulky old-school red steel cans? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#90
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three questions
On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 12:52:14 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 10:50:02 AM UTC-7, davethedave wrote: On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:08:24 -0700, Doug Landau wrote: snip My van holds up a decked roof rack .... tho placement is with lathe screws or drywall/construction electric drill screws once the rig is in place n adjusted everything is bolted down with G5 .25" rod then nuts sealed with blue Loctite. In a new state eventually law will come around for a visual inspection. Really? Our lathe screw is 3/4 inch x 4 feet long. How many of those did you use for this project? What a difference an 'e' makes. You love the world and want to hug everyone. Everything is really funny and you lath a lot. -- davethedave not me im one of those poor souls who reacts the opposite way You're one of those that can't help giggling when someone loses an eye, right? No. I'm one of those poor souls who, at an E party, gets introverted, and notices, around 3AM, that he is alone downstairs, and hasn't seen hide nor hair of anyone else in 2-3 hours DOH! |
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