A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » Australia
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Hors Category translation



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 13th 06, 01:38 AM posted to aus.bicycle
DaveB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 435
Default Hors Category translation

The great French debate in our house has stalled. Can anyone tell me
what the Hors (no I don't want to hear about ladies of ill repute) in
Hors category translates to. French dictionary translates to "except",
but does that mean it is without a category?

Where's Gary Gate when you want him?

DaveB
Ads
  #2  
Old July 13th 06, 01:54 AM posted to aus.bicycle
PiledHigher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Hors Category translation


DaveB wrote:
The great French debate in our house has stalled. Can anyone tell me
what the Hors (no I don't want to hear about ladies of ill repute) in
Hors category translates to. French dictionary translates to "except",
but does that mean it is without a category?

Where's Gary Gate when you want him?

DaveB


Off the internets (a long time ago!)


Rating the Climbs of the Tour de France


One of the most frequently asked questions is how do the organizers
determine the ratings for the climbs in the Tour de France(TIOOYK).
The Tour organizers use two criteria 1) the length and steepness of
the climb and 2) the position of the climb in the stage. A third,
and much lesser criteria, is the quality of the road surface.

It is important to note several things before this discussion begins.
First, the organizers of the Tour have been very erratic in their
classifications of climbs. The north side of the Col de la Madeleine
has flip-flopped between a 1st Category to an Hors Category climb,
even though it seems to be in the same position of a stage every
year.

Secondly, rating inflation, so rampant in other sports has raised
its ugly head here. Climbs that used to be a 2nd Category are now a
1st Category, even though, like the Madeleine, they occupy the same
position in a stage year after year.

Let's talk about the ratings. I will give you my impressions
on what I think the criteria are for rating the climbs based on
having ridden over 100 of the rated climbs in the major European
tours.

Note that gradual climbs do not receive grades. It has been my
observation that about a 4% grade is necessary for a climb to get
rated. Also, a climb must gain at least 100m for it to be rated.

The organizers of the Tour de France also claim that the quality of
the road surface can influence the rating of a climb. If the surface
is very poor, like some of the more obscure climbs in the Pyrenees,
then the rating may be bumped up.

4th Category - the lowest category, climbs of 300-1000 feet(100-300m).

3rd Category - climbs of 1000-2000 feet(300-600m).

2nd Category - climbs of 2000-3500 ft.(600-1100m)

1st Category - climbs of 3500-5000ft(1100-1500m)

Hors Category - the hardest, climbs of 5000ft+(1500m+)

Points awarded for the climbs ranges are as follows (from the 1990
race bible):

4th Category: 3 places: 5, 3, 1

3rd Category: 5 places: 10, 7, 5, 3, 1

2nd Category: 10 places: 20, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1

1st Category: 12 places: 30, 26, 22, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1

Hors Category: 15 places: 40, 35, 30, 26, 22, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6,
4, 2, 1

Steepness also plays a factor in the rating. Most of the big climbs
in the Alps average 7-8% where the big climbs in the Pyrenees average
8-9%.

Please remember that I am giving very, very rough guidelines and
that there are exceptions to every rule. For example, L'Alpe D'Huez
climbs 3700ft(1200m), but is an Hors Category climb. This is because
it usually comes at the end of a very tough stage and the climb itself
is unusually steep(~9%) by Alpine standards.

More confusing is the Col de Borderes, a mere 1000ft(300m) climb
outside
of Arrens in the Pyrenees mountains. I have seen it rated anywhere
from
a 3rd Category to a 1st Category !!! This is most likely due again, to
its
placement on the stage. The 3rd Category rating came when it was near
the
beginning of a stage where its 1st Category rating came when it was
near
the end.

Flat or downhill sections can also affect a climb's rating. Such
sections
offer a rest to the weary and can reduce the difficulty of the climb
considerably. This may be one of the reasons that the aforementioned
Col de la Madeleine, which has a 1 mile downhill/flat section at
mid-height,
flip-flops in its rating.

I am often asked how climbs in the United States compare to those in
Europe. Most of the US climbs are either steep enough by European
standards(6-8% grade), but are short(5-10km) so they fall into the
3rd Category or 2nd possibly; or the climbs gain enough altitude, but
are too long(they average 5%) so again they would fail to break
the 1st Category barrier and end up most likely a 2nd or 3rd Category.

Fear not, there are exceptions. Most notable to Californians is
the south side of Palomar Mountain which from Pauma Valley climbs
4200' in 11 miles, a potential 1st Category ascent, though it may
fall prey to downgrading because of the flat section at mile four.

The east side of Towne Pass in Death Valley is definitely a 1st
Category climb!

A popular Northern California climb, Mount Hamilton, is similar to
Palomar Mountain but, fails to be a 1st Category climb because of two
offending downhill section on the ascent and an overall gradient of 5%.

For Coloradoans, you can thank the ski industry for creating long,
but relatively gradual climbs that rarely exceed 5% for any substantial
length(5+ miles). I never had to use anything bigger than a 42x23
on any climb in Colorado, regardless of altitude. Gear ratios of
39x24 or 26 are commonplace in the Alps and Pyrenees and give a very
telling indication as to the difficulty of European climbs.

One potential 1st Category climb for Coloradoans may be the 4000 ft.
climb in about 15 miles from Ouray to the top of Red Mountain Pass.

Also, remember we are rating only paved(i.e. asphalt) roads. Dirt
roads
vary considerably in their layout, condition and maintenance because
there
really are no guidelines for their construction. This makes it
difficult
to compare these climbs and inappropriate to lump them with paved
roads.

Also, it should be noted that there is not a single uniform rating
scheme
for all the races on the UCI calendar. What one race might call a 1st
Category climb, may be called a 2nd Category climb, even though the
stages
of the two races are almost identical.

One last note. I think it is inappropriate to compare the ascents of
climbs by the European pros with the efforts of us mere mortals.
I have said this time and time again and I will repeat it now. It
is very, very hard for the average person to comprehend just how
fast the pros climb the big passes. Pace makes all the difference.
Riding a climb is very different than racing it.

Bruce Hildenbrand

  #3  
Old July 13th 06, 01:58 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Bleve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,258
Default Hors Category translation


DaveB wrote:
The great French debate in our house has stalled. Can anyone tell me
what the Hors (no I don't want to hear about ladies of ill repute) in
Hors category translates to. French dictionary translates to "except",
but does that mean it is without a category?

Where's Gary Gate when you want him?


My French friend, Kiki, says, in context, that it means "not related"
or "out of"

  #4  
Old July 13th 06, 02:16 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Shane Stanley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Hors Category translation

In article ,
DaveB wrote:

The great French debate in our house has stalled. Can anyone tell me
what the Hors (no I don't want to hear about ladies of ill repute) in
Hors category translates to. French dictionary translates to "except",
but does that mean it is without a category?


Sort of like "off the scale" -- out of or beyond category.

--
Shane Stanley
  #5  
Old July 13th 06, 09:05 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Darryl C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Hors Category translation

In article .com,
"PiledHigher" wrote:

(snip)
Points awarded for the climbs ranges are as follows (from the 1990
race bible):

4th Category: 3 places: 5, 3, 1

3rd Category: 5 places: 10, 7, 5, 3, 1

2nd Category: 10 places: 20, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1

1st Category: 12 places: 30, 26, 22, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1

Hors Category: 15 places: 40, 35, 30, 26, 22, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6,
4, 2, 1

Steepness also plays a factor in the rating. Most of the big climbs
in the Alps average 7-8% where the big climbs in the Pyrenees average
8-9%.


See page 16 of the Tour de France 'Regulations of the Race' for the
current points allocation for climbs:
http://www.letour.fr/2006/TDF/LIVE/docs/reglement_2006_us.pdf

A ripping yarn and a darn good read.

regards,
Darryl
  #6  
Old July 15th 06, 01:22 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Fractal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 126
Default Hors Category translation


"Shane Stanley" wrote

The great French debate in our house has stalled. Can anyone tell me
what the Hors (no I don't want to hear about ladies of ill repute) in
Hors category translates to. French dictionary translates to "except",
but does that mean it is without a category?


Sort of like "off the scale" -- out of or beyond category.

--
Shane Stanley


Maybe its from "Hors de combat" - so disabled you cant keep fighting, or
Horsd'oeuvre, (french swear word for "horses doover!" when you see the
profile...

fb.





  #7  
Old July 16th 06, 12:09 PM posted to aus.bicycle
rdk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Hors Category translation


As a bit of a froggy speaker I would translate a hors categorie as
"above categorisation" ie so hard that for mere mortals it wouldn't
even be able to be categorised.


--
rdk

  #8  
Old July 17th 06, 05:32 AM posted to aus.bicycle
slaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Hors Category translation


Means you need a horse to get up it. Found one of those trying to ride
the Harrington's Track bridle trail last summer.


--
slaw

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Racing category question psycholist Racing 5 June 26th 06 05:14 PM
Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions Posting Part 1/5 Mike Iglesias General 4 October 29th 04 07:11 AM
Category 5 (beginner) race tactic pointers crit pro Racing 1 August 26th 04 11:39 AM
USA Cycling category adjustments ronde chumpion Racing 19 August 17th 03 02:45 AM
TDF - how does it work? bigbrian UK 12 July 15th 03 06:22 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.