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Could Key West be a bike model for America?



 
 
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  #141  
Old November 7th 08, 07:27 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
BrianNZ
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Posts: 137
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Edward Dolan wrote:
"BrianNZ" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Jeez, I just HATE liberal assholes. What is wrong with that?

[...]

I don't like assholes either, but I don't care what their politics are.


Liberal and asshole go together like bread and butter.

What can I say.....bring it on. I'd probably die laughing if anyone
calling themselves a 'Saint....the great' turned up.
Everything is relative. I am only a Great Saint by the pitiful standards
that prevail today. Hey, if you are not ****ing everything in sight, then
you are a Saint. Welcome to the club!

I think Tom Sherman may also be a Saint, but not a Great Saint. He lives
too high on the hog to be a Great Saint. We Great Saints are as poor as
church mice and proud of it. The main problem with Tom Sherman as a Saint
is that he does not respect and fear the Spanish Inquisition. He will rue
that!

Excellent, I'm a Saint!!(but not from a lack of trying to **** everything
in sight)....I do not fear or respect the Spanish Inquisition, because I'm
not expecting it.


You should fear the Spanish Inquisition because it lies in wait for lost
souls like you!

By the way, ****ing is for those who want babies. Do you want a baby? I am
convinced it is the one and only thing that women want, but is it what men
want?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota





Fear grown men dressed in gowns with bad 'Cheech' accents? I don't think
so. Liberals just carry on working to keep the country going and leave
the religious nutters to do what they do, but step on our toes and meet
your maker. Live and let live, but kill if necessary.

So ****ing is just for breeding? One day when you try it, you will
realise it's fun. I was happy when the babies arrived, and have been
glad to have them and watch them grow up. Mini-me's and body parts when
I break down.
Ads
  #142  
Old November 8th 08, 12:44 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?


"Henry" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

long rambling insane rant


And of course, Eddy's insane rant contained not one single fact
or shred of evidence that supports his insane bearded cave man
cartoon conspiracy theory or that refutes one fact or one claim
made by the hundreds of highly respected leaders, experts and
professionals who have demonstrated that 9-11 was an inside job.
But that's how the "mind' of a clueless conspiracy kook
"works" - facts, logic, evidence, and expert research are
their most feared enemies - well, after the Fearsome Bearded Cave
Man. chuckle


Eddy seems to "think" that many of our 9-11 rescue workers
and heroes, along with the hundreds of highly respected, highly
credible experts, leaders, and professionals listed below are
all insane. Of course, Eddy can't quote one claim they make
and explain why he "thinks" they're mistaken. Eddy can't do
that, because that would require the ability to read and think.
Eddy's "intellect" limits him to mindlessly spewing naught but
childish kook drivel and rants....


I am here to voice my opinion and that is all you are doing too, but I have
more sense than to post a lot of nonsense by others who think as I do.
Usenet is not for the dissemination of propaganda in any event. If I want
that I will go elsewhere.

Henry is a moron (besides being a liberal asshole of course) and does not
have 1 ounce of common sense. He is typical of the breed.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #143  
Old November 8th 08, 12:54 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?


"BrianNZ" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
By the way, ****ing is for those who want babies. Do you want a baby? I
am convinced it is the one and only thing that women want, but is it what
men want?


Fear grown men dressed in gowns with bad 'Cheech' accents? I don't think
so. Liberals just carry on working to keep the country going and leave the
religious nutters to do what they do, but step on our toes and meet your
maker. Live and let live, but kill if necessary.


Who doesn't know how to kill - or want to kill? **** liberal assholes all
the way to Hell and back!

So ****ing is just for breeding? One day when you try it, you will realise
it's fun. I was happy when the babies arrived, and have been glad to have
them and watch them grow up. Mini-me's and body parts when I break down.


Nature provided some pleasure so that we will indeed ****, but it is all for
the purpose of breeding. If you think sex is fun, I've got some other fun
things for you to do too - like being burned at the stake or being
horsewhipped to death. Beware, the Spanish Inquisition has its eye on you
and I personally am on very good terms with the Grand Inquisitor himself!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



  #144  
Old November 8th 08, 08:06 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default OT - The Spanish Inquisition

Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
I think Tom Sherman may also be a Saint, but not a Great Saint. He lives too
high on the hog to be a Great Saint. We Great Saints are as poor as church
mice and proud of it. The main problem with Tom Sherman as a Saint is that
he does not respect and fear the Spanish Inquisition. He will rue that!

butbutbut, I do fear being poked with soft cushions with all the
stuffing up one end and being forced to stay in the Comfy Chair until
lunch time, with only a cup of coffee at eleven.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.
  #145  
Old November 8th 08, 08:08 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default OT - The Spanish Inquistition

BrianNZ wrote:
[...]
Excellent, I'm a Saint!!(but not from a lack of trying to ****
everything in sight)....I do not fear or respect the Spanish
Inquisition, because I'm not expecting it.


Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.
  #146  
Old November 8th 08, 08:34 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc
S'mee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default OT - The Spanish Inquistition

On Nov 8, 1:08*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
BrianNZ wrote:
[...]
Excellent, I'm a Saint!!(but not from a lack of trying to ****
everything in sight)....I do not fear or respect the Spanish
Inquisition, because I'm not expecting it.


Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!


No, but some of us are always vigilant! Always prepared...hammer,
tongs and in case things get nasty, we break this panel and pull out
our emergency altar boy. Not to worry that's just to distarct them
whilst I get my H&H 900 nitro out of the closet.
--
Keith
Twit of the year 1983
  #147  
Old November 8th 08, 09:23 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc
[email protected]_my_sig_for_address.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default OT - The Spanish Inquisition

This was very unexpected.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
  #148  
Old November 11th 08, 09:14 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
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Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Vito wrote:
"Henry" wrote;
snip


As I've said, and you've ignored many times before


As you've done many times before, you, like all bearded cave
man cartoon conspiracy theorists, desperately avoided addressing
the facts, evidence, and expert research, Here, try again.

link restored

These Mossad agents were observed filming and celebrating the
demolitions. They said they were there to document the event.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html
http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Bol...-Israelis.html

Muslim extremists, hostile to Saddam, perp'd the attack for their own

reasons that had nothing to do with Iraq.

You have not shred of evidence to support your conspiracy theory.
The evidence that 9-11 was an inside job is solid and convincing
to all but the most deluded conspiracy theorists.

Tell us why you "think" Cheney would permit a known
hijacked plane to enter the most heavy guarded airspace
on the planet almost an hour after the first tower was hit.
His stand down order resulted in a horrific loss of life
and property.


http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226

3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."

http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226

3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8788

With regard to the morning of 9/11, everyone agrees that at some time
after 9:03 (when the South Tower of the World Trade Center was struck)
and before 10:00, Vice President Dick Cheney went down to the
Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), sometimes simply called
the ?bunker,? under the east wing of the White House. Everyone also
agrees that, once there, Cheney was in charge---that he was either
making decisions or relaying decisions from President Bush. But there is
enormous disagreement as to exactly when Cheney entered the PEOC.

According to The 9/11 Commission Report, Cheney arrived ?shortly
before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58? (The 9/11 Commission Report [henceforth
9/11CR], 40). This official time, however, contradicts almost all
previous reports, some of which had him there before 9:20. This
difference is important because, if the 9/11 Commission?s time is
correct, Cheney was not in charge in the PEOC when the Pentagon was
struck, or for most of the period during which United Flight 93 was
approaching Washington. But if the reports that have him there by 9:20
are correct, he was in charge in the PEOC all that time.

Mineta?s Report of Cheney?s Early Arrival
The most well-known statement contradicting the 9/11 Commission was made
by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta during his public testimony
to the 9/11 Commission on May 23, 2003. Saying that he ?arrived at the
PEOC at about 9:20 AM,? Mineta reported that he then overheard part of
an ongoing conversation, which had obviously begun before he arrived,
between a young man and Vice President Cheney. This conversation was
about a plane coming toward Washington and ended with Cheney confirming
that ?the orders still stand.? When Commissioner Timothy Roemer later
asked Mineta how long after his arrival he overheard this conversation
about whether the orders still stood, Mineta replied: ?Probably about
five or six minutes.? This would mean, Roemer pointed out, ?about 9:25
or 9:26.?

This is a remarkable contradiction. Given the fact that Cheney,
according to Mineta, had been engaged in an ongoing exchange, he must
have been in the PEOC for several minutes before Mineta?s 9:20 arrival.
If Cheney had been there since 9:15, there would be a 43-minute
contradiction between Mineta?s testimony and The 9/11 Commission Report.
Why would such an enormous contradiction exist?

One possible explanation would be that Mineta was wrong. His story,
however, is in line with that of many other witnesses.

Other Reports Supporting Cheney?s Early Arrival
Richard Clarke reported that he, Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice had a
brief meeting shortly after 9:03, following which the Secret Service
wanted Cheney and Rice to go down to the PEOC. Rice, however, first went
with Clarke to the White House?s Video Teleconferencing Center, where
Clarke was to set up a video conference, which began at about 9:10.
After spending a few minutes there, Rice said, according to Clarke:
?You?re going to need some decisions quickly. I?m going to the PEOC to
be with the Vice President. Tell us what you need.? At about 9:15,
Norman Mineta arrived and Clarke ?suggested he join the Vice President?
(Against All Enemies, 2-5). Clarke thereby implied that Cheney was in
the PEOC several minutes prior to 9:15.

In an ABC News program on the first anniversary of 9/11, Cheney?s
White House photographer David Bohrer reported that, shortly after 9:00,
some Secret Service agents came into Cheney?s office and said, ?Sir, you
have to come with us.? During this same program, Rice said: ?As I was
trying to find all of the principals, the Secret Service came in and
said, ?You have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's
already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House.?? ABC?s
Charles Gibson then said: ?In the bunker, the Vice President is joined
by Rice and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta? (?9/11: Interviews
by Peter Jennings,? ABC News, September 11, 2002).

The 9/11 Commission?s Late-Arrival Claim
The 9/11 Commission agreed that the vice president was hustled down to
the PEOC after word was received that a plane was headed towards the
White House. It claimed, however, that this word was not received until
9:33. But even then, according to the Commission, the Secret Service
agents immediately received another message, telling them that the
aircraft had turned away, so ?[n]o move was made to evacuate the Vice
President at this time.? It was not until ?just before 9:36? that the
Secret Service ordered Cheney to go below (9/11CR 39). But even after he
entered the underground corridor at 9:37, Cheney did not immediately go
to the PEOC. Rather:

Once inside, Vice President Cheney and the agents paused in an area of
the tunnel that had a secure phone, a bench, and television. The Vice
President asked to speak to the President, but it took time for the call
to be connected. He learned in the tunnel that the Pentagon had been
hit, and he saw television coverage of the smoke coming from the
building. (9/11CR 40)

Next, after Lynne Cheney ?joined her husband in the tunnel,? the
Commission claimed, ?Mrs. Cheney and the Vice President moved from the
tunnel to the shelter conference room? after the call ended, which was
not until after 9:55. As for Rice, the Commission added, she ?entered
the conference room shortly after the Vice President? (9/11CR 40).

The contradiction could not be clearer. According to the Commission,
Cheney, far from entering the PEOC before 9:20, as Mineta and others
said, did not arrive there until about 9:58, 20 minutes after the 9:38
strike on the Pentagon, about which he had learned in the corridor.

Cheney?s Account on Meet the Press

The 9/11 Commission?s account even contradicted that given by Cheney
himself in a well-known interview. Speaking to Tim Russert on NBC?s Meet
the Press only five days after 9/11, Cheney said: ?[A]fter I talked to
the president, . . . I went down into . . . the Presidential Emergency
Operations Center. . . . [W]hen I arrived there within a short order, we
had word the Pentagon's been hit.? Cheney himself, therefore, indicated
that he had entered the PEOC prior to the (9:38) strike on the Pentagon,
not 20 minutes after it, as the Commission would later claim.

Dealing with the Contradictions
How did the 9/11 Commission deal with the fact that its claim about the
time of Cheney?s arrival in the PEOC had been contradicted by Bohrer,
Clarke, Mineta, Rice, several news reports, and even Cheney himself? It
simply omitted any mention of these contradictory reports.

Of these omissions, the most important was the Commission?s failure to
mention Norman Mineta?s testimony, even though it was given to the
Commission in an open hearing---as can be seen by reading the transcript
of that session (May 23, 2003). This portion of Mineta?s testimony was
also deleted from the official version of the video record of the 9/11
Commission hearings in the 9/11 Commission archives. (It can, however,
be viewed on the Internet.)

During an interview for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in 2006,
Hamilton was asked what ?Mineta told the Commission about where Dick
Cheney was prior to 10 AM.? Hamilton replied: ?I do not recall? (?9/11:
Truth, Lies and Conspiracy: Interview: Lee Hamilton,? CBC News, 21
August 2006). It was surprising that Hamilton could not recall, because
he had been the one doing the questioning when Mineta told the story of
the young man?s conversation with Cheney. Hamilton, moreover, had begun
his questioning by saying to Mineta: ?You were there [in the PEOC] for a
good part of the day. I think you were there with the Vice President.?
And Mineta?s exchange with Timothy Roemer, during which it was
established that Mineta had arrived at about 9:20, came immediately
after Hamilton?s interrogation. And yet Hamilton, not being able to
recall any of this, simply said, ?we think that Vice President Cheney
entered the bunker shortly before 10 o?clock.?

Obliterating Mineta?s Problematic Testimony
To see possible motives for the 9/11 Commission?s efforts to obliterate
Mineta?s story from the public record, we need to look at the
conversation he reported to the Commission. He said:

During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, ?The
plane is 50 miles out.? ?The plane is 30 miles out.? And when it got
down to ?the plane is 10 miles out,? the young man also said to the Vice
President, ?Do the orders still stand?? And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, ?Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary??

Mineta?s story had dangerous implications with regard to the strike on
the Pentagon, which occurred at 9:38. According to the 9/11 Commission,
the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon
until 9:36, so that it ?had at most one or two minutes to react to the
unidentified plane approaching Washington? (9/11CR 34). That claim was
essential for explaining, among other things, why the Pentagon had not
been evacuated before it was struck---a fact that resulted in 125
deaths. A spokesperson for Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, when asked why
this evacuation had not occurred, said: ?The Pentagon was simply not
aware that this aircraft was coming our way? (Newsday, Sept. 23, 2001).
Mineta?s testimony implied, by contrast, that Cheney and others knew
that an aircraft was approaching Washington about 12 minutes before that
strike.

Even more problematic was the question of the nature of ?the orders.?
Mineta assumed, he said, that they were orders to have the plane shot
down. But the aircraft was not shot down. Also, the expected orders,
especially on a day when two hijacked airliners had already crashed into
buildings in New York, would have been to shoot down any nonmilitary
aircraft entering the ?prohibited? airspace over Washington, in which
?civilian flying is prohibited at all times? (?Pilots Notified of
Restricted Airspace; Violators Face Military Action,? FAA Press Release,
September 28, 2001). If those orders had been given, there would have
been no reason to ask if they still stood. The question made sense only
if the orders were to do something unusual---not to shoot the aircraft
down. It appeared, accordingly, that Mineta had inadvertently reported
Cheney?s confirmation of stand-down orders.

That Mineta?s report was regarded as dangerous is suggested by the
fact that the 9/11 Commission, besides deleting Mineta?s testimony and
delaying Cheney?s entrance to the bunker by approximately 45 minutes,
also replaced Mineta?s story with a new story about an incoming
aircraft. According to The 9/11 Commission Report, here is what really
happened:

At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from
the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft. . . . At some time between
10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that
the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for
authority to engage the aircraft. . . . The Vice President authorized
fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. . . . The military aide
returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said
the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to
engage. The Vice President again said yes. (9/11CR 41)

The 9/11 Commission thereby presented the incoming aircraft story as
one that ended with an order for a shoot down, not a stand down. And by
having it occur after 10:10, the Commission not only disassociated it
from the Pentagon strike but also ruled out the possibility that
Cheney?s shootdown authorization might have led to the downing of United
Flight 93 (which crashed, according to the Commission, at 10:03).

Given the fact that the 9/11 Commission?s account of Cheney?s descent
to the bunker contradicted the testimony of not only Norman Mineta but
also many other witnesses, including Cheney himself, Congress and the
press need to launch investigations to determine what really happened.





--


They must find it difficult - those who have taken authority as the
Truth, rather than Truth as the authority. - G. Massey


http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org


Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional
in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony,
consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked
by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world
growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of
omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies
throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens,
losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation
of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question
authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance."
- Manuel Valenzuela
  #149  
Old November 11th 08, 09:15 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Henry" wrote in message


Eddy seems to "think" that many of our 9-11 rescue workers
and heroes, along with the hundreds of highly respected, highly
credible experts, leaders, and professionals listed below are
all insane. Of course, Eddy can't quote one claim they make
and explain why he "thinks" they're mistaken. Eddy can't do
that, because that would require the ability to read and think.
Eddy's "intellect" limits him to mindlessly spewing naught but
childish kook drivel and rants....


I am here to voice my opinion


You seem to be having great difficulty with that. Perhaps you're
not sure what's on your "mind", either. chuckle
Here, try again. Tell us why you "think" Cheney would permit
a known hijacked plane to enter the most heavy guarded airspace
on the planet almost an hour after the first tower was hit.
His stand down order resulted in a horrific loss of life
and property.


http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226


3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."

http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226

3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8788

With regard to the morning of 9/11, everyone agrees that at some time
after 9:03 (when the South Tower of the World Trade Center was struck)
and before 10:00, Vice President Dick Cheney went down to the
Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), sometimes simply called
the ?bunker,? under the east wing of the White House. Everyone also
agrees that, once there, Cheney was in charge---that he was either
making decisions or relaying decisions from President Bush. But there is
enormous disagreement as to exactly when Cheney entered the PEOC.

According to The 9/11 Commission Report, Cheney arrived ?shortly
before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58? (The 9/11 Commission Report [henceforth
9/11CR], 40). This official time, however, contradicts almost all
previous reports, some of which had him there before 9:20. This
difference is important because, if the 9/11 Commission?s time is
correct, Cheney was not in charge in the PEOC when the Pentagon was
struck, or for most of the period during which United Flight 93 was
approaching Washington. But if the reports that have him there by 9:20
are correct, he was in charge in the PEOC all that time.

Mineta?s Report of Cheney?s Early Arrival
The most well-known statement contradicting the 9/11 Commission was made
by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta during his public testimony
to the 9/11 Commission on May 23, 2003. Saying that he ?arrived at the
PEOC at about 9:20 AM,? Mineta reported that he then overheard part of
an ongoing conversation, which had obviously begun before he arrived,
between a young man and Vice President Cheney. This conversation was
about a plane coming toward Washington and ended with Cheney confirming
that ?the orders still stand.? When Commissioner Timothy Roemer later
asked Mineta how long after his arrival he overheard this conversation
about whether the orders still stood, Mineta replied: ?Probably about
five or six minutes.? This would mean, Roemer pointed out, ?about 9:25
or 9:26.?

This is a remarkable contradiction. Given the fact that Cheney,
according to Mineta, had been engaged in an ongoing exchange, he must
have been in the PEOC for several minutes before Mineta?s 9:20 arrival.
If Cheney had been there since 9:15, there would be a 43-minute
contradiction between Mineta?s testimony and The 9/11 Commission Report.
Why would such an enormous contradiction exist?

One possible explanation would be that Mineta was wrong. His story,
however, is in line with that of many other witnesses.

Other Reports Supporting Cheney?s Early Arrival
Richard Clarke reported that he, Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice had a
brief meeting shortly after 9:03, following which the Secret Service
wanted Cheney and Rice to go down to the PEOC. Rice, however, first went
with Clarke to the White House?s Video Teleconferencing Center, where
Clarke was to set up a video conference, which began at about 9:10.
After spending a few minutes there, Rice said, according to Clarke:
?You?re going to need some decisions quickly. I?m going to the PEOC to
be with the Vice President. Tell us what you need.? At about 9:15,
Norman Mineta arrived and Clarke ?suggested he join the Vice President?
(Against All Enemies, 2-5). Clarke thereby implied that Cheney was in
the PEOC several minutes prior to 9:15.

In an ABC News program on the first anniversary of 9/11, Cheney?s
White House photographer David Bohrer reported that, shortly after 9:00,
some Secret Service agents came into Cheney?s office and said, ?Sir, you
have to come with us.? During this same program, Rice said: ?As I was
trying to find all of the principals, the Secret Service came in and
said, ?You have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's
already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House.?? ABC?s
Charles Gibson then said: ?In the bunker, the Vice President is joined
by Rice and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta? (?9/11: Interviews
by Peter Jennings,? ABC News, September 11, 2002).

The 9/11 Commission?s Late-Arrival Claim
The 9/11 Commission agreed that the vice president was hustled down to
the PEOC after word was received that a plane was headed towards the
White House. It claimed, however, that this word was not received until
9:33. But even then, according to the Commission, the Secret Service
agents immediately received another message, telling them that the
aircraft had turned away, so ?[n]o move was made to evacuate the Vice
President at this time.? It was not until ?just before 9:36? that the
Secret Service ordered Cheney to go below (9/11CR 39). But even after he
entered the underground corridor at 9:37, Cheney did not immediately go
to the PEOC. Rather:

Once inside, Vice President Cheney and the agents paused in an area of
the tunnel that had a secure phone, a bench, and television. The Vice
President asked to speak to the President, but it took time for the call
to be connected. He learned in the tunnel that the Pentagon had been
hit, and he saw television coverage of the smoke coming from the
building. (9/11CR 40)

Next, after Lynne Cheney ?joined her husband in the tunnel,? the
Commission claimed, ?Mrs. Cheney and the Vice President moved from the
tunnel to the shelter conference room? after the call ended, which was
not until after 9:55. As for Rice, the Commission added, she ?entered
the conference room shortly after the Vice President? (9/11CR 40).

The contradiction could not be clearer. According to the Commission,
Cheney, far from entering the PEOC before 9:20, as Mineta and others
said, did not arrive there until about 9:58, 20 minutes after the 9:38
strike on the Pentagon, about which he had learned in the corridor.

Cheney?s Account on Meet the Press

The 9/11 Commission?s account even contradicted that given by Cheney
himself in a well-known interview. Speaking to Tim Russert on NBC?s Meet
the Press only five days after 9/11, Cheney said: ?[A]fter I talked to
the president, . . . I went down into . . . the Presidential Emergency
Operations Center. . . . [W]hen I arrived there within a short order, we
had word the Pentagon's been hit.? Cheney himself, therefore, indicated
that he had entered the PEOC prior to the (9:38) strike on the Pentagon,
not 20 minutes after it, as the Commission would later claim.

Dealing with the Contradictions
How did the 9/11 Commission deal with the fact that its claim about the
time of Cheney?s arrival in the PEOC had been contradicted by Bohrer,
Clarke, Mineta, Rice, several news reports, and even Cheney himself? It
simply omitted any mention of these contradictory reports.

Of these omissions, the most important was the Commission?s failure to
mention Norman Mineta?s testimony, even though it was given to the
Commission in an open hearing---as can be seen by reading the transcript
of that session (May 23, 2003). This portion of Mineta?s testimony was
also deleted from the official version of the video record of the 9/11
Commission hearings in the 9/11 Commission archives. (It can, however,
be viewed on the Internet.)

During an interview for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in 2006,
Hamilton was asked what ?Mineta told the Commission about where Dick
Cheney was prior to 10 AM.? Hamilton replied: ?I do not recall? (?9/11:
Truth, Lies and Conspiracy: Interview: Lee Hamilton,? CBC News, 21
August 2006). It was surprising that Hamilton could not recall, because
he had been the one doing the questioning when Mineta told the story of
the young man?s conversation with Cheney. Hamilton, moreover, had begun
his questioning by saying to Mineta: ?You were there [in the PEOC] for a
good part of the day. I think you were there with the Vice President.?
And Mineta?s exchange with Timothy Roemer, during which it was
established that Mineta had arrived at about 9:20, came immediately
after Hamilton?s interrogation. And yet Hamilton, not being able to
recall any of this, simply said, ?we think that Vice President Cheney
entered the bunker shortly before 10 o?clock.?

Obliterating Mineta?s Problematic Testimony
To see possible motives for the 9/11 Commission?s efforts to obliterate
Mineta?s story from the public record, we need to look at the
conversation he reported to the Commission. He said:

During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, ?The
plane is 50 miles out.? ?The plane is 30 miles out.? And when it got
down to ?the plane is 10 miles out,? the young man also said to the Vice
President, ?Do the orders still stand?? And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, ?Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary??

Mineta?s story had dangerous implications with regard to the strike on
the Pentagon, which occurred at 9:38. According to the 9/11 Commission,
the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon
until 9:36, so that it ?had at most one or two minutes to react to the
unidentified plane approaching Washington? (9/11CR 34). That claim was
essential for explaining, among other things, why the Pentagon had not
been evacuated before it was struck---a fact that resulted in 125
deaths. A spokesperson for Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, when asked why
this evacuation had not occurred, said: ?The Pentagon was simply not
aware that this aircraft was coming our way? (Newsday, Sept. 23, 2001).
Mineta?s testimony implied, by contrast, that Cheney and others knew
that an aircraft was approaching Washington about 12 minutes before that
strike.

Even more problematic was the question of the nature of ?the orders.?
Mineta assumed, he said, that they were orders to have the plane shot
down. But the aircraft was not shot down. Also, the expected orders,
especially on a day when two hijacked airliners had already crashed into
buildings in New York, would have been to shoot down any nonmilitary
aircraft entering the ?prohibited? airspace over Washington, in which
?civilian flying is prohibited at all times? (?Pilots Notified of
Restricted Airspace; Violators Face Military Action,? FAA Press Release,
September 28, 2001). If those orders had been given, there would have
been no reason to ask if they still stood. The question made sense only
if the orders were to do something unusual---not to shoot the aircraft
down. It appeared, accordingly, that Mineta had inadvertently reported
Cheney?s confirmation of stand-down orders.

That Mineta?s report was regarded as dangerous is suggested by the
fact that the 9/11 Commission, besides deleting Mineta?s testimony and
delaying Cheney?s entrance to the bunker by approximately 45 minutes,
also replaced Mineta?s story with a new story about an incoming
aircraft. According to The 9/11 Commission Report, here is what really
happened:

At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from
the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft. . . . At some time between
10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that
the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for
authority to engage the aircraft. . . . The Vice President authorized
fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. . . . The military aide
returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said
the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to
engage. The Vice President again said yes. (9/11CR 41)

The 9/11 Commission thereby presented the incoming aircraft story as
one that ended with an order for a shoot down, not a stand down. And by
having it occur after 10:10, the Commission not only disassociated it
from the Pentagon strike but also ruled out the possibility that
Cheney?s shootdown authorization might have led to the downing of United
Flight 93 (which crashed, according to the Commission, at 10:03).

Given the fact that the 9/11 Commission?s account of Cheney?s descent
to the bunker contradicted the testimony of not only Norman Mineta but
also many other witnesses, including Cheney himself, Congress and the
press need to launch investigations to determine what really happened.









--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.911truth.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...are/fires.html
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...
  #150  
Old November 11th 08, 09:35 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides
Henry[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 129
Default Could Key West be a bike model for America?

Vito wrote:
"Henry" wrote;
snip


As I've said, and you've ignored many times before - where is the motive?


Bush didn't need 9/11 to invade Iraq


Yes, he did, and he used it for all it was worth.

You have not a shred of evidence to support your conspiracy theory.
The evidence that 9-11 was an inside job is solid and convincing
to all but the most deluded conspiracy theorists.

Tell us why you "think" Cheney would permit a known
hijacked plane to enter the most heavy guarded airspace
on the planet almost an hour after the first tower was hit.
His stand down order resulted in a horrific loss of life
and property.


http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226


3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."

http://www.911truth.org/article_for_...70402105006226

3. Norman Mineta's mind-blowing testimony before the 9/11 Commission
concerning the last fifty miles of flight of the plane that hit the
Pentagon and Dick Cheney's orders about it, are matters of no apparent
concern to Dunbar and Reagan. Thus, were one to rely on their telling,
one would be unaware that Mineta was directed to the Presidential
Emergency Operations Center in the White House sometime after the second
plane hit the South Tower. One would not learn that he found Cheney in
charge and being informed by a young man as to the path of the plane
that hit the Pentagon. Nor would one know that Cheney was notified
periodically that the plane was fifty miles out, thirty miles out,
twenty, and ten. Avoiding the entire episode, Dunbar and Reagan
obviously make no mention of the young manĀ?s inquiry of Cheney upon the
final progress report, "Do the orders still stand"? Cheney's response,
turning abruptly to the young man and asking pointedly if he (the young
man) had heard anything to the contrary -- a fact of considerable
importance for an understanding of the entire event -- therefore is not
discussed in the pages of Debunking. As a consequence of this avoidance,
one will find no examination of the ramifications of this testimony. One
finds no query concerning the nature of the orders referred to, and no
speculation concerning Pentagon defenses and their failure to deploy.
There is no reference to the failure of the 9/11 Commission to find out
who the young man was, or how many other people were in the room, and
what their reactions were. There is no discussion of how the incident is
simply eliminated from history by the adoption of an alternative
chronology that contradicts a string of accounts and offers no
explanation of why Norman Mineta, now holder of the Presidential Medal
of Freedom, bestowed upon him by President Bush, would make up such an
amazing tale or have such an elaborately embroidered faulty memory. None
of these are matters for Dunbar and Reagan."


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/g...wayWithIt.html

"The young man's reports to Cheney of the airliner's impending
approach is followed by his urgent question whether "the orders still
stand?" The young man was questioning the order. That question had to be
about whether the order NOT to destroy the approaching plane still
stood. Given the two prior attacks against the Twin Towers using the
commercial airliners as weapons, an order to destroy the plane
approaching the Pentagon would be the only order to give and would not
be subject to question by the young man as the plane approached.
Furthermore, had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching
the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-aircraft
capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take
out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane.
Since the Langley/Norfolk jets are at least 10 minutes away and out of
range, Cheney's order is about the on-site Pentagon or White House
defenses. Neither a shoot-down nor an attempted shoot-down occurred, and
since Mineta does not speak of a last-second change in orders by Cheney,
the only supportable conclusion is that Cheney's order was NOT to defend
the Pentagon, an order so contrary to both common sense and military
defense that it, and it alone, explains the questioning by the young man."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=8788

With regard to the morning of 9/11, everyone agrees that at some time
after 9:03 (when the South Tower of the World Trade Center was struck)
and before 10:00, Vice President Dick Cheney went down to the
Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), sometimes simply called
the ?bunker,? under the east wing of the White House. Everyone also
agrees that, once there, Cheney was in charge---that he was either
making decisions or relaying decisions from President Bush. But there is
enormous disagreement as to exactly when Cheney entered the PEOC.

According to The 9/11 Commission Report, Cheney arrived ?shortly
before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58? (The 9/11 Commission Report [henceforth
9/11CR], 40). This official time, however, contradicts almost all
previous reports, some of which had him there before 9:20. This
difference is important because, if the 9/11 Commission?s time is
correct, Cheney was not in charge in the PEOC when the Pentagon was
struck, or for most of the period during which United Flight 93 was
approaching Washington. But if the reports that have him there by 9:20
are correct, he was in charge in the PEOC all that time.

Mineta?s Report of Cheney?s Early Arrival
The most well-known statement contradicting the 9/11 Commission was made
by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta during his public testimony
to the 9/11 Commission on May 23, 2003. Saying that he ?arrived at the
PEOC at about 9:20 AM,? Mineta reported that he then overheard part of
an ongoing conversation, which had obviously begun before he arrived,
between a young man and Vice President Cheney. This conversation was
about a plane coming toward Washington and ended with Cheney confirming
that ?the orders still stand.? When Commissioner Timothy Roemer later
asked Mineta how long after his arrival he overheard this conversation
about whether the orders still stood, Mineta replied: ?Probably about
five or six minutes.? This would mean, Roemer pointed out, ?about 9:25
or 9:26.?

This is a remarkable contradiction. Given the fact that Cheney,
according to Mineta, had been engaged in an ongoing exchange, he must
have been in the PEOC for several minutes before Mineta?s 9:20 arrival.
If Cheney had been there since 9:15, there would be a 43-minute
contradiction between Mineta?s testimony and The 9/11 Commission Report.
Why would such an enormous contradiction exist?

One possible explanation would be that Mineta was wrong. His story,
however, is in line with that of many other witnesses.

Other Reports Supporting Cheney?s Early Arrival
Richard Clarke reported that he, Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice had a
brief meeting shortly after 9:03, following which the Secret Service
wanted Cheney and Rice to go down to the PEOC. Rice, however, first went
with Clarke to the White House?s Video Teleconferencing Center, where
Clarke was to set up a video conference, which began at about 9:10.
After spending a few minutes there, Rice said, according to Clarke:
?You?re going to need some decisions quickly. I?m going to the PEOC to
be with the Vice President. Tell us what you need.? At about 9:15,
Norman Mineta arrived and Clarke ?suggested he join the Vice President?
(Against All Enemies, 2-5). Clarke thereby implied that Cheney was in
the PEOC several minutes prior to 9:15.

In an ABC News program on the first anniversary of 9/11, Cheney?s
White House photographer David Bohrer reported that, shortly after 9:00,
some Secret Service agents came into Cheney?s office and said, ?Sir, you
have to come with us.? During this same program, Rice said: ?As I was
trying to find all of the principals, the Secret Service came in and
said, ?You have to leave now for the bunker. The Vice President's
already there. There may be a plane headed for the White House.?? ABC?s
Charles Gibson then said: ?In the bunker, the Vice President is joined
by Rice and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta? (?9/11: Interviews
by Peter Jennings,? ABC News, September 11, 2002).

The 9/11 Commission?s Late-Arrival Claim
The 9/11 Commission agreed that the vice president was hustled down to
the PEOC after word was received that a plane was headed towards the
White House. It claimed, however, that this word was not received until
9:33. But even then, according to the Commission, the Secret Service
agents immediately received another message, telling them that the
aircraft had turned away, so ?[n]o move was made to evacuate the Vice
President at this time.? It was not until ?just before 9:36? that the
Secret Service ordered Cheney to go below (9/11CR 39). But even after he
entered the underground corridor at 9:37, Cheney did not immediately go
to the PEOC. Rather:

Once inside, Vice President Cheney and the agents paused in an area of
the tunnel that had a secure phone, a bench, and television. The Vice
President asked to speak to the President, but it took time for the call
to be connected. He learned in the tunnel that the Pentagon had been
hit, and he saw television coverage of the smoke coming from the
building. (9/11CR 40)

Next, after Lynne Cheney ?joined her husband in the tunnel,? the
Commission claimed, ?Mrs. Cheney and the Vice President moved from the
tunnel to the shelter conference room? after the call ended, which was
not until after 9:55. As for Rice, the Commission added, she ?entered
the conference room shortly after the Vice President? (9/11CR 40).

The contradiction could not be clearer. According to the Commission,
Cheney, far from entering the PEOC before 9:20, as Mineta and others
said, did not arrive there until about 9:58, 20 minutes after the 9:38
strike on the Pentagon, about which he had learned in the corridor.

Cheney?s Account on Meet the Press

The 9/11 Commission?s account even contradicted that given by Cheney
himself in a well-known interview. Speaking to Tim Russert on NBC?s Meet
the Press only five days after 9/11, Cheney said: ?[A]fter I talked to
the president, . . . I went down into . . . the Presidential Emergency
Operations Center. . . . [W]hen I arrived there within a short order, we
had word the Pentagon's been hit.? Cheney himself, therefore, indicated
that he had entered the PEOC prior to the (9:38) strike on the Pentagon,
not 20 minutes after it, as the Commission would later claim.

Dealing with the Contradictions
How did the 9/11 Commission deal with the fact that its claim about the
time of Cheney?s arrival in the PEOC had been contradicted by Bohrer,
Clarke, Mineta, Rice, several news reports, and even Cheney himself? It
simply omitted any mention of these contradictory reports.

Of these omissions, the most important was the Commission?s failure to
mention Norman Mineta?s testimony, even though it was given to the
Commission in an open hearing---as can be seen by reading the transcript
of that session (May 23, 2003). This portion of Mineta?s testimony was
also deleted from the official version of the video record of the 9/11
Commission hearings in the 9/11 Commission archives. (It can, however,
be viewed on the Internet.)

During an interview for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in 2006,
Hamilton was asked what ?Mineta told the Commission about where Dick
Cheney was prior to 10 AM.? Hamilton replied: ?I do not recall? (?9/11:
Truth, Lies and Conspiracy: Interview: Lee Hamilton,? CBC News, 21
August 2006). It was surprising that Hamilton could not recall, because
he had been the one doing the questioning when Mineta told the story of
the young man?s conversation with Cheney. Hamilton, moreover, had begun
his questioning by saying to Mineta: ?You were there [in the PEOC] for a
good part of the day. I think you were there with the Vice President.?
And Mineta?s exchange with Timothy Roemer, during which it was
established that Mineta had arrived at about 9:20, came immediately
after Hamilton?s interrogation. And yet Hamilton, not being able to
recall any of this, simply said, ?we think that Vice President Cheney
entered the bunker shortly before 10 o?clock.?

Obliterating Mineta?s Problematic Testimony
To see possible motives for the 9/11 Commission?s efforts to obliterate
Mineta?s story from the public record, we need to look at the
conversation he reported to the Commission. He said:

During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, ?The
plane is 50 miles out.? ?The plane is 30 miles out.? And when it got
down to ?the plane is 10 miles out,? the young man also said to the Vice
President, ?Do the orders still stand?? And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, ?Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary??

Mineta?s story had dangerous implications with regard to the strike on
the Pentagon, which occurred at 9:38. According to the 9/11 Commission,
the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon
until 9:36, so that it ?had at most one or two minutes to react to the
unidentified plane approaching Washington? (9/11CR 34). That claim was
essential for explaining, among other things, why the Pentagon had not
been evacuated before it was struck---a fact that resulted in 125
deaths. A spokesperson for Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, when asked why
this evacuation had not occurred, said: ?The Pentagon was simply not
aware that this aircraft was coming our way? (Newsday, Sept. 23, 2001).
Mineta?s testimony implied, by contrast, that Cheney and others knew
that an aircraft was approaching Washington about 12 minutes before that
strike.

Even more problematic was the question of the nature of ?the orders.?
Mineta assumed, he said, that they were orders to have the plane shot
down. But the aircraft was not shot down. Also, the expected orders,
especially on a day when two hijacked airliners had already crashed into
buildings in New York, would have been to shoot down any nonmilitary
aircraft entering the ?prohibited? airspace over Washington, in which
?civilian flying is prohibited at all times? (?Pilots Notified of
Restricted Airspace; Violators Face Military Action,? FAA Press Release,
September 28, 2001). If those orders had been given, there would have
been no reason to ask if they still stood. The question made sense only
if the orders were to do something unusual---not to shoot the aircraft
down. It appeared, accordingly, that Mineta had inadvertently reported
Cheney?s confirmation of stand-down orders.

That Mineta?s report was regarded as dangerous is suggested by the
fact that the 9/11 Commission, besides deleting Mineta?s testimony and
delaying Cheney?s entrance to the bunker by approximately 45 minutes,
also replaced Mineta?s story with a new story about an incoming
aircraft. According to The 9/11 Commission Report, here is what really
happened:

At 10:02, the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from
the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft. . . . At some time between
10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that
the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for
authority to engage the aircraft. . . . The Vice President authorized
fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. . . . The military aide
returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said
the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to
engage. The Vice President again said yes. (9/11CR 41)

The 9/11 Commission thereby presented the incoming aircraft story as
one that ended with an order for a shoot down, not a stand down. And by
having it occur after 10:10, the Commission not only disassociated it
from the Pentagon strike but also ruled out the possibility that
Cheney?s shootdown authorization might have led to the downing of United
Flight 93 (which crashed, according to the Commission, at 10:03).

Given the fact that the 9/11 Commission?s account of Cheney?s descent
to the bunker contradicted the testimony of not only Norman Mineta but
also many other witnesses, including Cheney himself, Congress and the
press need to launch investigations to determine what really happened.

--



--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.911truth.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...are/fires.html
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm

Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...
 




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