A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Belt drive



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #111  
Old April 30th 19, 10:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,932
Default Belt drive

On 2019-04-30 12:16, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 18:52, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 12:35:24 AM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM
UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg
wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive
for the bike he is building. What is
good about them? You have to have the
exact length for your bike, and if it
breaks, it is very expensive to
replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be
great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and
complicated, they have been tried and
used on MTB but don’t seem to have been
cracked, I think generally the extra
weight/cost though a E-MTB would mitigate
that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it
out, most of all BMW. That company should
also build MTB, they know how it's done.
Weight doesn't always matter, especially
not for many MTB riders. We just want less
wear and most importanly not have to clean
and lube the chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades
longer to figure something out. Such as
decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no
surprise, I had to build it all myself.
Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG



It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it
never breaks down anymore.


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike
for the commute as I clock up fairly
respectable distances per day which does
chew though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls






--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock
full of El Toro Poo Poo! Maybe weight doesn't
matter in your world but it sure does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you
Joerg; your best bet to get the durability
that you say YOU need is to buy a small
gasoline powered dirt motorcycle and convert
it to pedal power. After all, weight doesn't
matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who
rather ride a bicycle that weighs 10lbs more
than customary but in contrast to others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time,
due to a lack of breakdowns. I happen to be one
of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I
didn't arrive on time were when I assisted
others during repairs. Because they didn't
have thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame
bicycle and I haven't had a breakdown, or even
something that came loose so I couldn't ride,
in 20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I
can't even remember a time that my bike broke and
I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't
judge a flat tire to be a "breakdown" or "came
loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get
to hoof it out of the wilderness for then next 10-20
miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have
NEVER had a flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of
minutes. Way back in the old "sew-up" tire days you
didn't even need any tools. Fix it with your bare
hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm.
Yeah, it can be done but you won't be able to feel some of
your fingertips for a while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago,
and contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly
had two flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a
gatorskin since.


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized,
a bear to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats
there. Also, one of them made it to a record 2500mi while no
others ever exceeded 2000mi by much on the rear. However, all
other Gatorskins I had failed prematurely in their sidewalls
and that's what makes them unacceptable to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very
cheap Thai made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a
store called "Super Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each,
so I don't use those either.


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad
product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced
by using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made
from a rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which
makes them harder and they wear less and thus are very well
regarded by those who can't afford to buy tires frequently.
Unfortunately hard tires also "grip the road" less well and
have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and
found them to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB
tires because there durability and sturdiness counts a lot more
than sqeezing the last tenth of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so
far tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number
of miles in terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a
bicycle tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto
tires or egg beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your
car every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi
and still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they
were around 15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface
was at bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I dunno what you're doing, Joerg, but you're doing it wrong. Compare
this to your expensive misfortunes with supposedly "cheap" tyres:

1. Schwalbe 622x60 Big Apples, pair, plus T19A Ultraleigt tubes,
pair, total delivered to my door Euro 66 -- half-worn at
8500km/5300m


Maybe your riding style or terrain. I tend to always go full bore,
whatever the leg muscles can deliver. That ain't wrong, that's my mode
of operation because I don't like to go slow. None of my local bike
friends milks more than 2500mi out of a rear tire. None.


Andre Jute The best is always in the end the cheap option


Expensive does always not mean good. Certainly not with bicycle tires.


Sorry, should read "Expensive does not always mean good".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #112  
Old April 30th 19, 11:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Belt drive

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 4:35:24 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they have been
tried and used on MTB but don’t seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders. We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't ride, in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools. Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since.


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized, a bear
to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats there. Also, one
of them made it to a record 2500mi while no others ever exceeded 2000mi
by much on the rear. However, all other Gatorskins I had failed
prematurely in their sidewalls and that's what makes them unacceptable
to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either..


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced by
using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.


I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I don't remember those Zafiro's as having any armor layer.
  #113  
Old April 30th 19, 11:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Belt drive

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 6:52:52 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 12:35:24 AM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they have been
tried and used on MTB but don’t seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders. We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't ride, in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools. Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since..


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized, a bear
to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats there. Also, one
of them made it to a record 2500mi while no others ever exceeded 2000mi
by much on the rear. However, all other Gatorskins I had failed
prematurely in their sidewalls and that's what makes them unacceptable
to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either.


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced by
using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I dunno what you're doing, Joerg, but you're doing it wrong. Compare this to your expensive misfortunes with supposedly "cheap" tyres:

1. Schwalbe 622x60 Big Apples, pair, plus T19A Ultraleigt tubes, pair, total delivered to my door Euro 66
-- half-worn at 8500km/5300m

Andre Jute
The best is always in the end the cheap option


Andre - what size are you? I think that Jorge and I are about the same size, do the same sort of riding and get about the same mileage on the same sorts of tires.
  #114  
Old April 30th 19, 11:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,254
Default Belt drive

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:59:04 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:03:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/29/2019 7:35 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the
exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very
expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they
have been
tried and used on MTB but dont seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's
done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders.
We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and
lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS
MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had
to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down
anymore.


Given a choice Id love a belt drive bike for the commute
as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls




--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El
Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure
does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best
bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small
gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After
all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a
bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to
others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive
on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they
didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I
haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't
ride,* in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even
remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat
tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it
out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools.* Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it
can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a
while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since.


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized, a bear
to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats there. Also, one
of them made it to a record 2500mi while no others ever exceeded 2000mi
by much on the rear. However, all other Gatorskins I had failed
prematurely in their sidewalls and that's what makes them unacceptable
to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either.


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced by
using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all* made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

What percentage of your annual income do you spend on tires?

What percentage would you spend if you used those oh-so-expensive
Gatorskins?

I have them on our tandem. I can still afford lunch. You're doing
something wrong.


I understand that minimum salary in California is $10/hour, at least
my wife's elder sister's tribe that visited last month tell me so. The
son, high school education, works part time "unloading trucks at the
Dollar store" and says he usually gets 40 or 50 dollars a day.


I believe Joerg is an independent contractor. There's no minimum he has
to pay himself, he could work all day and end up money behind.


But one might assume that if, as a self employed fellow, he is making
less than minimum wages it is time to either raise his rates or go to
work unloading trucks at the Dollar Shop.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #115  
Old April 30th 19, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Belt drive

On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 3:18:27 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:59:04 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:03:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/29/2019 7:35 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the
exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very
expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they
have been
tried and used on MTB but don’t seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's
done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders.
We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and
lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS
MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had
to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down
anymore.


Given a choice I’d love a belt drive bike for the commute
as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls




--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El
Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure
does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best
bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small
gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After
all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a
bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to
others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive
on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they
didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I
haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't
ride,* in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even
remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat
tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it
out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools.* Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it
can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a
while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since.


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized, a bear
to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats there. Also, one
of them made it to a record 2500mi while no others ever exceeded 2000mi
by much on the rear. However, all other Gatorskins I had failed
prematurely in their sidewalls and that's what makes them unacceptable
to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either.


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced by
using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all* made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

What percentage of your annual income do you spend on tires?

What percentage would you spend if you used those oh-so-expensive
Gatorskins?

I have them on our tandem. I can still afford lunch. You're doing
something wrong.

I understand that minimum salary in California is $10/hour, at least
my wife's elder sister's tribe that visited last month tell me so. The
son, high school education, works part time "unloading trucks at the
Dollar store" and says he usually gets 40 or 50 dollars a day.


I believe Joerg is an independent contractor. There's no minimum he has
to pay himself, he could work all day and end up money behind.


But one might assume that if, as a self employed fellow, he is making
less than minimum wages it is time to either raise his rates or go to
work unloading trucks at the Dollar Shop.
--
cheers,

John B.


Joerg makes a little more than minimum wage. Quite a little more. He probably makes more in one month than you made in any single year in your life.
  #116  
Old April 30th 19, 11:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,254
Default Belt drive

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:13:14 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-29 21:49, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:35:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 07:46:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-27 15:55, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 07:59:25 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-26 16:12, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 07:27:05 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 16:32, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:16:28 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-25 14:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:22:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-25 11:00, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-12 07:27, db wrote:
My son is set on getting a belt drive for the bike he is
building. What is good about them? You have to have the exact
length for your bike, and if it breaks, it is very expensive
to replace.

So, why?


Dad gave him too much money :-)

Now, a shaft drive, that would be great.


Imagine it would be much heavier and complicated, they have been
tried and used on MTB but dont seem to have been cracked, I
think generally the extra weight/cost though a E-MTB would
mitigate that?


Motorcycle manufacturers have figured it out, most of all BMW.
That company should also build MTB, they know how it's done. Weight
doesn't always matter, especially not for many MTB riders. We just
want less wear and most importanly not have to clean and lube the
chain every 50 miles.

It often takes the bicycle industry decades longer to figure
something out. Such as decent heavy-duty rack space on FS MTB and
central-battery powered lighting where, no surprise, I had to build
it all myself. Beats me why one still cannot buy this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy5.JPG

It's lasted many thousand hard miles now which included heavy
loads. Yeah, that bike is heavy but it never breaks down anymore.


Given a choice Id love a belt drive bike for the commute as I
clock up fairly respectable distances per day which does chew
though the drive chain.


I'd be careful ...

https://www.thelocal.se/20180524/ike...-lead-to-falls



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Weight of an MTB doesn't matter? What a crock full of El Toro Poo
Poo! Maybe weight doesn't matter in your world but it sure does to a
LOT of other MTB users. I keep telling you Joerg; your best bet to
get the durability that you say YOU need is to buy a small gasoline
powered dirt motorcycle and convert it to pedal power. After all,
weight doesn't matter to you.


Within reason, of course. There are people who rather ride a bicycle
that weighs 10lbs more than customary but in contrast to others they
generally arrive at their destinations on time, due to a lack of
breakdowns. I happen to be one of those.

The only times during the last years (!) that I didn't arrive on time
were when I assisted others during repairs. Because they didn't have
thorn-resistant tubes et cetera.

But Joerg, I ride a conventional steel frame bicycle and I haven't had
a breakdown, or even something that came loose so I couldn't ride, in
20 years or more. In fact, in thinking back I can't even remember a
time that my bike broke and I couldn't ride it.


No flats in 20 years?

I didn't say anything about flat tires but I don't judge a flat tire
to be a "breakdown" or "came loose"

A flat tire without any tools _is_ a breakdown. He get to hoof it out of
the wilderness for then next 10-20 miles.

But in all the years I've been riding a bicycle I have NEVER had a
flat tire that I couldn't fix in a matter of minutes. Way back in the
old "sew-up" tire days you didn't even need any tools. Fix it with
your bare hands.


Now try that with a Gatorskin or a Vee Rubber 700c 25mm. Yeah, it can be
done but you won't be able to feel some of your fingertips for a while.

I bought a pair of Gatorskin tires, oh probably 10 years ago, and
contrary to their advertised proof against flats promptly had two
flats in less than 5 Km of riding. I haven't used a gatorskin since.


I never use them anymore either. I found them a bit undersized, a bear
to get on. The running surface is sturdy and no flats there. Also, one
of them made it to a record 2500mi while no others ever exceeded 2000mi
by much on the rear. However, all other Gatorskins I had failed
prematurely in their sidewalls and that's what makes them unacceptable
to me.


As for Vee tires, I have the feeling that they are a very cheap Thai
made tire or at least I saw some for sale in a store called "Super
Cheap" for something like 3 dollars each, so I don't use those either.


Just because something is cheap does not mean it is a bad product.

No, but it does mean that it is cheap and cheap can be produced by
using less than quality materials.

I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Well, I use to change tires more frequently then that. Back when I was
a high school kid working in the filling station after school. The
owner used to give me any tire that the re-capping place refused so I
drove on tires with the cords showing. Carried a whole caboose full of
tires and got so a wheel change was a 10 minute job.


Even with close-to-bald tires on my Citroen I still got much more out of
them and this in a country where inadequate tread could result in a ticket.


Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.


70,000 miles at $280? that is what? Less than one cent a mile? and you
can't afford it?


Where did I say that?

Just above. You wrote "1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st
set lasted 70000mi and still had half the tread. I only replaced them
because they were around 15 years old."

$280 X 100 = 28,000 cents divided by 70000 = 0.04 cents a mile


2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.


What sort of a job do you have that you can't afford $45/2500 = 1.8
cents a mile for tires?

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.


Sure I can do the math and in my money 45 dollars is 1,440 baht. Which
is literally pocket change. It won't even cover a trip to the grocery
store. And you are whining about that?



Our parents and grandparents instilled a good philisophy in us. "He who
does not value the penny is not worth the dollar". I know scores of
people who say similar things. "What? You mind the measly five bucks of
a morning coffee and pastry at the drive-thru?". Well, I do. Needless to
say the folks who lived that way must keep on working until they are
well north of 65 and some literally until they keel over. I don't.


The problem is that in your grandparents day a penny was money. Today,
if you still have 1 cent coins it isn't even pocket change. If you
drop one most people couldn't be bothered to bend over and pick it up.

Based on what I understand is California minimum salary rates a penny
is a tiny fraction of one minute's salary. 10 x 100=1,000 cents/hour
divided by 60 minutes = 16.6 cents/minute = 3.614 seconds per cent.

If it takes you more than 3.6 seconds to bend over and pick up the
penny than you are losing money :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #117  
Old April 30th 19, 11:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,752
Default Belt drive

On 4/30/2019 4:53 PM, Joerg wrote:


You won't believe how many people in our town still do it, blissfully
unaware that $5/workday times two people is a cost of more than
$200/month. Then they also go to lunch at $10 a pop and there goes
another $400.

Then they "need" $50/mo/person smart phone plans, a $100 cable TV
subscription, $80 for the gym, new cars every 3-4 years and thus
eternally revolving car payments, house mortgaged to the hilt, et
cetera. Typically those are the people who can least afford it. Is it
any wonder that the average American has net zero savings at retirement
age?


FWIW, I've done none of those things; and our retirement is very secure.
And as I've said many times, I don't have a connoisseur mentality.

But I won't ride $15 tires. There are limits.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #118  
Old April 30th 19, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,752
Default Belt drive

On 4/30/2019 3:16 PM, Joerg wrote:


Maybe your riding style or terrain. I tend to always go full bore,
whatever the leg muscles can deliver. That ain't wrong, that's my mode
of operation because I don't like to go slow.


You've been all over the map with your speed claims, Joerg. When it
suits your arguments at the time, you say you ride fast. When it suits
your other arguments, you've said you ride slow.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #119  
Old April 30th 19, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,932
Default Belt drive

On 2019-04-30 15:30, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 12:13:14 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-29 21:49, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:35:23 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


[...]

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

70,000 miles at $280? that is what? Less than one cent a mile? and you
can't afford it?


Where did I say that?

Just above. You wrote "1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st
set lasted 70000mi and still had half the tread. I only replaced them
because they were around 15 years old."

$280 X 100 = 28,000 cents divided by 70000 = 0.04 cents a mile


I never said that I can't afford it. Do not state words that other
people did not say.


2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

What sort of a job do you have that you can't afford $45/2500 = 1.8
cents a mile for tires?

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

Sure I can do the math and in my money 45 dollars is 1,440 baht. Which
is literally pocket change. It won't even cover a trip to the grocery
store. And you are whining about that?



Our parents and grandparents instilled a good philisophy in us. "He who
does not value the penny is not worth the dollar". I know scores of
people who say similar things. "What? You mind the measly five bucks of
a morning coffee and pastry at the drive-thru?". Well, I do. Needless to
say the folks who lived that way must keep on working until they are
well north of 65 and some literally until they keel over. I don't.


The problem is that in your grandparents day a penny was money. Today,
if you still have 1 cent coins it isn't even pocket change. If you
drop one most people couldn't be bothered to bend over and pick it up.


Those are typically those who run into money troubles. Pretty much
everyone whom I ever heard saying things like "Oh, that's just chump
change" did.

Besides, being conscious about small costs has honed my design skills in
electronics. When I design there is a cost calculator constantly running
in my brain.


Based on what I understand is California minimum salary rates a penny
is a tiny fraction of one minute's salary. 10 x 100=1,000 cents/hour
divided by 60 minutes = 16.6 cents/minute = 3.614 seconds per cent.

If it takes you more than 3.6 seconds to bend over and pick up the
penny than you are losing money :-)



No, no, look at the positive side. I am getting free core muscle
training :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #120  
Old April 30th 19, 11:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,932
Default Belt drive

On 2019-04-30 15:14, wrote:
On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 4:35:24 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-04-29 16:02, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 07:16:27 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-04-28 15:07, John B. wrote:


[...]


I've been told that the cheap tires in Thailand all made from a
rubber mix that contains a lot of carbon black, which makes them
harder and they wear less and thus are very well regarded by those who
can't afford to buy tires frequently. Unfortunately hard tires also
"grip the road" less well and have minimal traction.


I do not need Tour de France level cornering performance and found them
to be quite adequate for riding. Especially the MTB tires because there
durability and sturdiness counts a lot more than sqeezing the last tenth
of an mph out of a ride.

On both the road bike and the MTB I want beefy sidewalls and so far
tires made in Thailand gave me that, plus a decent number of miles in
terms of wear.

I really don't understand this fetish with how many miles a bicycle
tire lasts. After all, compared to something like auto tires or egg
beaters they are pretty cheap.


How would you like it if you had to switch out the tires on your car
every 2500mi?

Besides, it ain't cheap:

1. SUV, four tires, $70 each so $280 total, 1st set lasted 70000mi and
still had half the tread. I only replaced them because they were around
15 years old.

2. Gatorskin, $45, lasted 2500mi at which point the tread surface was at
bare minimum.

3. Vittoria Zafiro, $13, 2000mi.

Want more? I trust you can do the math.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I don't remember those Zafiro's as having any armor layer.


They don't and I also ran them almost to the bone. Thanks to
thorn-resistant thick tubes plus a tire liners an armor layer is no
longer required on any of my bikes and I can squeeze out the last mile.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the case with belt drive? Andre Jute[_2_] Techniques 62 October 27th 09 07:42 AM
Belt Drive Arrives Leo Lichtman[_2_] Techniques 1 November 21st 08 11:40 PM
Belt drive parts hhu Techniques 0 January 30th 05 09:26 PM
SS Belt Drive? supabonbon Mountain Biking 23 November 18th 04 09:53 PM
SS Belt Drive? supabonbon Techniques 39 November 18th 04 09:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.