when-a-bike-is-not-a-bike [sic]

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 11:13:06 PM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2016 15:50:46 -0500, "W. Wesley Groleau"
wrote:

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/whe...health-device/

Been there, done that, sorta. In April 2016, the warranty ran out on
my triple bypass job and I had to have two stents inserted in my
inside plumbing. Things did not go smoothly. I was sentenced by the
cardiologist to about 3 months of hard labor in "cardiac rehab". That
means spending about 45 minutes, twice or thrice per week, on a fixed
torture device, while the exercise inquisitors made sure that I would
experience maximum exertion without killing myself. Naturally, I
chose a machine that most closely resembled a bicycle.

I would say that the bicycle like contraption worked well[1]. I was
somewhat of a physical wreck during the first few sessions. Three
months later, I was able to push myself to well beyond what I could do
on a moving bicycle. The difference is that the fixed bicycle does
not require that I deal with traffic, pedestrians, road hazards, etc.
I can concentrate 100.0% on pushing myself as hard as possible,
interval timing, simulating hill climbs, and adjusting the resistance.
In addition to the usual foot pedals, the machine I selected hand
alternating arm handles, which was good for upper body exercise. I
would say that an exercise machine was much better for my recovery
than a moving bicycle.

I'm not diabetic, so I don't know if my experiences apply to other
medical conditions. I suspect that the article is aimed at those
diabetics who have never exercised a day in their life, and now are
forced to start somewhere. I guess an electric bicycle might be a
tolerable start, but also suspect that a fixed bicycle exercise
machine would be at least as good, if not better.

Unfortunately, the high quality exercise machines used for rehab are
far too expensive. I managed to find a suitable used machine for
$2,400, but declined to buy one. For now, I'm using an indoor rear
wheel trainer stand and will continue to look for something
affordable.


[1] The major limitation was that I am on beta blockers and
vasodilators, which put an upper limit on the number of beats per
minute and blood pressure that I can produce. My calculated aerobic
limit conveniently coincided close to my beta blocker limit. It was
easy to tell when I hit my limit. Instant chest pains (angina).


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I feel for you, Jeff. I have the same experience, albeit without the multiple bypass and with only one stent. The cardiac rehabilitation inquisitors showed me too their instruments. As an aside, the Dominicans never "tortured" anyone, they just "showed them the instruments" -- they were the first proponents of Orwell-speak -- nor did they ever burn anybody, they just "relaxed them to the civil authority", who burned them. I decided that, rather than resist, I'd go one better and buy a treadmill, and also brought my touring bike up to a spec that would give me adequate assistance on the steepest hills, considering that the various medications depress my heart rate depressingly. I've found that cheap exercise machines have cheap bearings and wear out fast if you use them daily, as I do in the depth of the winter, but that a semi-pro treadmill from a good brand (in my case the Australian manufacturer York) has good enough baarings and belts to survive heavy use. I watch movies on my treadmill, or read, or work with my iPad, so the time spent on it serves a double purpose. By contrast a Nordic Air Walker, which I loved, was regarded with suspicion by my cardiac consultants for bringing my heartrate up too fast and not having enough "warm down" modes, and a rowing machine went out, despite having a star rower among my advisors, because I couldn't see a way to make it multitask.

I think that diabetics who resist advice to exercise, especially, are being foolish and self-lacerating, but I do remember how hard it was to start up again when I was feeling week after even minor cardiac surgery, and the nuisance of having to be accompanied everywhere for a couple of months.

Andre Jute
Remember Jim Fixx, the guru of jogging? He died at 53 from a heart attack.

On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 9:50:48 PM UTC+1, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/whe...health-device/

--
Wes Groleau

It's a piece of crap. The first, obvious, piece of evidence is that doubling bar on the downtube which must be suspect as do-nothing extra weight in any structural analysis, in other words, fundamentally antithetical to the spirit of efficiency that should infuse bicycle design. In short, it is a decorativse "feature". As for the disc brake, what the devil is it for on a bike that isn't intended for any kind of speeding? Etcetera.

A better bike for gerrys and fatties is Tom Sherman's fave RANS bikes, which allow for both feet flat on the ground while seated in the saddle, and are otherwise properly designed.

Andre Jute
Triangulation is my middle name

On 10-02-2016 08:19, Doc O'Leary wrote:
(standing or treadmill desks, etc.). Then they *seriously* brought up
the notion that driverless cars might actually be helpful, because
they could allow the passengers to exercise during their commute
instead of just sitting in traffic. I practically screamed.

In one article I read, the journalist was asking random people for their
opinions. One guy "It would be great! I could put my exercise bike in
the back of my van and get a workout on the way to work!"

--
Wes Groleau

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 15:37:28 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

As an aside, the Dominicans never "tortured" anyone, they
just "showed them the instruments"

I guess I should mention that the various procedures and rehab were
all performed at Dominican Hospital:
https://www.dignityhealth.org/dominican/
https://www.dignityhealth.org/dominican/medical-services/rehabilitation
The only torture treatment I received was the presentation of the
bill.

I decided that, rather than resist, I'd go one better
and buy a treadmill

I can't do a treadmill. I have a compressed nerve or two in my back
that causes part of one leg to go numb when I do too much standing,
walking, or climbing. Instead, I use a recumbent exercise machine,
which is basically the same as a treadmill, but where I do everything
sitting down.

... also brought my touring bike up to a spec that would give me
adequate assistance on the steepest hills, considering that the
various medications depress my heart rate depressingly.

Yep, that what I was mumbling about in reference to beta blockers and
vasodilators. Oddly, the biggest limitation on my ability to obtain a
sufficiently high heart rate to be consider aerobic exercise is my
previous meal. I've found that trying to ride or exercise after a big
meal is guaranteed to produce angina (heart pain) due to insufficient
blood to the heart. In my case, it isn't low blood pressure or beta
blockers that are causing the problem. It's compression of the blood
vessels by the bloated stomach, and blood flow diverted to the stomach
trying to digest the meal. So, I can only exercise on an empty
stomach, which works nicely.

I've found that cheap exercise machines have cheap bearings and
wear out fast if you use them daily, as I do in the depth of the
winter, but that a semi-pro treadmill from a good brand (in my
case the Australian manufacturer York) has good enough baarings
and belts to survive heavy use.

If replacement bearing are available, I can easily replace them.

This is one of several machines I used during rehab:
http://www.nustep.com/our-products/t4r/
About US$5,000 new. Notice the handle bars for upper body exercise.
It was a fairly good machine with one deficiency. The computah lacked
the ability to adjust the resistance with changes in pedal rate. I
later tried a different machine (maker and model temporarily
forgotten), which had this feature. It didn't matter how fast or slow
I was pedaling, the machine would provide a constant load. For me,
that was about 100 watts for 40 mins, including 5 min warmup and 5 min
cooldown.

I watch movies on my
treadmill, or read, or work with my iPad, so the time spent on
it serves a double purpose.

I don't. I once had a rather clumsy accident when I wasn't paying
attention, started day dreaming, and jammed the front wheel of my
bicycle between the rollers and frame. I had place the rollers in a
doorway, so I could catch myself if something went wrong. It didn't
work and I nearly landed on top of a rather hot wood burning stove.

During rehab, I almost repeated the same mistake when I was distracted
by something, and was hit in the face by one of the moving handlebars.
No damage, except a bruise that took a few weeks to heal thanks to yet
another pill, this time a blood thinner. Lesson learned... pay
attention.

... but I do remember how
hard it was to start up again when I was feeling week after
even minor cardiac surgery, and the nuisance of having to be
accompanied everywhere for a couple of months.

Yep, except I didn't need a body guard. My main defense is my bottle
of nitroglycerine pills. I've only had to take them once when I
decided to test my full stomach theory with a bicycle ride to deliver
some cash to a friend so he could get his SUV towed home. In
retrospect, that was a truly stupid thing to do, but I survived, and
proved my point.

Remember Jim Fixx, the guru of jogging? He died at 53 from a heart attack.

He had a family history of heart problems and apparently refused
medical treatment. He might have lived longer if he had been taking
some of the drugs that we're both complaining about. Unfortunately,
most of them did not exist 40 years ago. It's also difficult to fight
heredity.

However, I'm not worried. It has been predicted that I'll meet my
well deserved demise in a supermarket parking lot, run over by some
driver who believes that all the rules of the road are suspended in
the parking lot.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 02 Oct 2016 18:57:07 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 15:37:28 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote:

As an aside, the Dominicans never "tortured" anyone, they
just "showed them the instruments"

I guess I should mention that the various procedures and rehab were
all performed at Dominican Hospital:
https://www.dignityhealth.org/dominican/
https://www.dignityhealth.org/dominican/medical-services/rehabilitation
The only torture treatment I received was the presentation of the
bill.

I decided that, rather than resist, I'd go one better
and buy a treadmill

I can't do a treadmill. I have a compressed nerve or two in my back
that causes part of one leg to go numb when I do too much standing,
walking, or climbing. Instead, I use a recumbent exercise machine,
which is basically the same as a treadmill, but where I do everything
sitting down.

... also brought my touring bike up to a spec that would give me
adequate assistance on the steepest hills, considering that the
various medications depress my heart rate depressingly.

Yep, that what I was mumbling about in reference to beta blockers and
vasodilators. Oddly, the biggest limitation on my ability to obtain a
sufficiently high heart rate to be consider aerobic exercise is my
previous meal. I've found that trying to ride or exercise after a big
meal is guaranteed to produce angina (heart pain) due to insufficient
blood to the heart. In my case, it isn't low blood pressure or beta
blockers that are causing the problem. It's compression of the blood
vessels by the bloated stomach, and blood flow diverted to the stomach
trying to digest the meal. So, I can only exercise on an empty
stomach, which works nicely.


Somehow I thought that was the norm. A little nap after lunch :-)

I've found that cheap exercise machines have cheap bearings and
wear out fast if you use them daily, as I do in the depth of the
winter, but that a semi-pro treadmill from a good brand (in my
case the Australian manufacturer York) has good enough baarings
and belts to survive heavy use.

If replacement bearing are available, I can easily replace them.

If they are "cartridge" bearings, with a identification number, than
your local bearing shop should have them

This is one of several machines I used during rehab:
http://www.nustep.com/our-products/t4r/
About US$5,000 new. Notice the handle bars for upper body exercise.
It was a fairly good machine with one deficiency. The computah lacked
the ability to adjust the resistance with changes in pedal rate. I
later tried a different machine (maker and model temporarily
forgotten), which had this feature. It didn't matter how fast or slow
I was pedaling, the machine would provide a constant load. For me,
that was about 100 watts for 40 mins, including 5 min warmup and 5 min
cooldown.

I watch movies on my
treadmill, or read, or work with my iPad, so the time spent on
it serves a double purpose.

I don't. I once had a rather clumsy accident when I wasn't paying
attention, started day dreaming, and jammed the front wheel of my
bicycle between the rollers and frame. I had place the rollers in a
doorway, so I could catch myself if something went wrong. It didn't
work and I nearly landed on top of a rather hot wood burning stove.

During rehab, I almost repeated the same mistake when I was distracted
by something, and was hit in the face by one of the moving handlebars.
No damage, except a bruise that took a few weeks to heal thanks to yet
another pill, this time a blood thinner. Lesson learned... pay
attention.

... but I do remember how
hard it was to start up again when I was feeling week after
even minor cardiac surgery, and the nuisance of having to be
accompanied everywhere for a couple of months.

Yep, except I didn't need a body guard. My main defense is my bottle
of nitroglycerine pills. I've only had to take them once when I
decided to test my full stomach theory with a bicycle ride to deliver
some cash to a friend so he could get his SUV towed home. In
retrospect, that was a truly stupid thing to do, but I survived, and
proved my point.

Remember Jim Fixx, the guru of jogging? He died at 53 from a heart attack.

He had a family history of heart problems and apparently refused
medical treatment. He might have lived longer if he had been taking
some of the drugs that we're both complaining about. Unfortunately,
most of them did not exist 40 years ago. It's also difficult to fight
heredity.

There is/was a Texas heart clinic, Cooper Aerobics Center in Dallas,
that was very active in studying and testing runners, that had been
after Fixx for some time to do an endurance test but he had either
refused or didn't have the time for it. They wrote, after the autopsy
that had Fixx lain down with his feet and legs elevated he might not
have had the heart attack, or at least might not have died from it.

The autopsy revealed that atherosclerosis had blocked one coronary
artery 95%, a second 85%, and a third 70%.


However, I'm not worried. It has been predicted that I'll meet my
well deserved demise in a supermarket parking lot, run over by some
driver who believes that all the rules of the road are suspended in
the parking lot.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 7:46:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-10-02 06:19, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Joerg wrote:

On 2016-10-01 13:50, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/whe...health-device/


Quote "Why are people inactive, especially when they have diabetes and
know how much physical activity could benefit them?"

The answer for many of them was unbelievable to me at first but I've
heard it so many times that I believe them now: "Nah, that's too much, I
don't feel like exercising". IOW they rather pop a pill instead.

In the other direction, I was listening to a program the other day on
the topic of our sedentary modern lifestyles. Part of the discussion
was about things you could do in the workplace to be more active
(standing or treadmill desks, etc.).


I organized my office in a way that I must get out of my chair to grab
the most frequently used books, start the scanner, and so on. Just
barely out of reach. But that's just to stretch, not real exercise.
Occasionally when waiting for a computer simulation I do push-ups. When
the sim is going to run for another 2h ... I go for a bike ride :-)

It helps to have the bicycles a mere 20ft from the office chair.


Then they *seriously* brought up
the notion that driverless cars might actually be helpful, because
they could allow the passengers to exercise during their commute
instead of just sitting in traffic. I practically screamed.

Personally, though, I think it’s a marketing error to dryly sell a
bike as a health device. They’d do much better with a campaign that
appeals to the laziness of the pill poppers. “Your doctor says you
should exercise for 30 minutes a day. Why not enjoy a fun bike ride
instead?�


The main thing is to provide safe biking environments. We have a
contrast here that could hardly be more extreme. In Folsom (California)
and westwards lots of nice bike paths were built. Therefore, lots of
people cycle there. Anywhere east where I live, almost nada. It's often
so bad that when another rider comes along on the opposite side we
enthusiastically wave.


Do you like stop and hug? "Hey, man, I love you . . . stay safe out there my brother." Apart from the Bermuda Triangle, Cameron Park must be the most dangerous place on earth -- and Folsom is paradise. You really should move.. If I lived in some place where the roads were so scary that I couldn't ride (on the roads), I wouldn't live there.

-- Jay Beattie.

For your reference, records indicate that
Radey Shouman wrote:

I thought that had already been covered:

http://www.bikeforest.com/tread/index.php

It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even know if these sorts
of things are real, or just elaborate jokes.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

On 2016-10-02 21:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 7:46:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-10-02 06:19, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-10-01 13:50, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/whe...health-device/




Quote "Why are people inactive, especially when they have diabetes and
know how much physical activity could benefit them?"

The answer for many of them was unbelievable to me at first but
I've heard it so many times that I believe them now: "Nah,
that's too much, I don't feel like exercising". IOW they rather
pop a pill instead.

In the other direction, I was listening to a program the other
day on the topic of our sedentary modern lifestyles. Part of the
discussion was about things you could do in the workplace to be
more active (standing or treadmill desks, etc.).


I organized my office in a way that I must get out of my chair to
grab the most frequently used books, start the scanner, and so on.
Just barely out of reach. But that's just to stretch, not real
exercise. Occasionally when waiting for a computer simulation I do
push-ups. When the sim is going to run for another 2h ... I go for
a bike ride :-)

It helps to have the bicycles a mere 20ft from the office chair.


Then they *seriously* brought up
the notion that driverless cars might actually be helpful,
because they could allow the passengers to exercise during their
commute instead of just sitting in traffic. I practically
screamed.

Personally, though, I think it’s a marketing error to dryly sell
a bike as a health device. They’d do much better with a campaign
that appeals to the laziness of the pill poppers. “Your doctor
says you should exercise for 30 minutes a day. Why not enjoy a
fun bike ride instead?�


The main thing is to provide safe biking environments. We have a
contrast here that could hardly be more extreme. In Folsom
(California) and westwards lots of nice bike paths were built.
Therefore, lots of people cycle there. Anywhere east where I live,
almost nada. It's often so bad that when another rider comes along
on the opposite side we enthusiastically wave.


Do you like stop and hug? "Hey, man, I love you . . . stay safe out
there my brother."


No, we do a rain dance in the middle of the road :-)

Yesterday it worked. I rained and I got soaked.


... Apart from the Bermuda Triangle, Cameron Park must
be the most dangerous place on earth -- and Folsom is paradise. You
really should move. If I lived in some place where the roads were so
scary that I couldn't ride (on the roads), I wouldn't live there.


I don't find them too dangerous (except for a few) but the fact is that
the vast majority of people simply will not ride a bike on such roads.
If there are bike paths then at least a few percent are willing and from
health and many other perspective this is major.

One road I will not travel by bike anymore is Durock Road in Cameron
Park. Not because of all the gravel trucks and such, they don't ge me
the 3ft legally required but at least they are chauffeured by
professionals. It's the car drivers. One cut me off so brutally a
couplke months ago that I had it. I now go via a dirt trail and when
that is flooded by car. Durock Road being the only connector between our
village halves for non-MTB riders means that people simply don't use a
bike for errands out here. They use their cars.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-10-02 13:41, DougC wrote:
On 10/1/2016 5:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-10-01 13:50, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/whe...health-device/




Quote "Why are people inactive, especially when they have diabetes and
know how much physical activity could benefit them?"

The answer for many of them was unbelievable to me at first but I've
heard it so many times that I believe them now: "Nah, that's too much, I
don't feel like exercising". IOW they rather pop a pill instead.

Yea, but somebody who broke their leg yesterday probably doesn't want to
go jogging this morning either.


That's 0.00001% or whatever. All the others are plain lazy and
sedentary. My wife and I visit nursing homes a lot and we see the end
result of that, such as morbid obesity that at some point sort of goes
out of control.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Doc O'Leary writes:

For your reference, records indicate that
Radey Shouman wrote:

I thought that had already been covered:

http://www.bikeforest.com/tread/index.php

It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even know if these sorts
of things are real, or just elaborate jokes.

I have that problem with The Onion -- most of their headlines are no
more bizarre than those of the other news outlets. But I'm reasonably
certain the bike treadmill is an elaborate joke.


--