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New B&M 100lux headlight.



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 4th 17, 12:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

--
JS


Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must" be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in a range that a single LED can't handle.
Anyone can rate a light without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33 lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.
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  #12  
Old December 4th 17, 12:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,214
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/3/2017 4:28 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

--
JS


Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must" be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in a range that a single LED can't handle.
Anyone can rate a light without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33 lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.


It's not all that new, and it's not very well rated. The complaints I
saw are a) the beam shape is too narrow, and b) the standlight is
inadequate. Neither is surprising. Dynamo lights make trade-offs, and
one major one is concentrating the limited available output into a
narrow beam, which is a big compromise in terms of safety, both in
seeing and being seen. The second is that the standlight is necessarily
fairly weak because the internal battery or super-cap can't provide
enough power.

The only suitable dynamo light for use in the U.S., in a dynamo-only
configuration, remains the Supernova E3 Triple 2. It has a proper beam,
and is not StVZO compliant for on-road use in countries where StVZO
compliance is mandatory.

  #13  
Old December 4th 17, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,807
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:56:24 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 12/3/2017 4:28 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

-- JS


Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test
requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must"
be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in
a range that a single LED can't handle. Anyone can rate a light
without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33
lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on
the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on
many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.


It's not all that new, and it's not very well rated. The complaints I
saw are a) the beam shape is too narrow, and b) the standlight is
inadequate. Neither is surprising. Dynamo lights make trade-offs, and
one major one is concentrating the limited available output into a
narrow beam, which is a big compromise in terms of safety, both in
seeing and being seen. The second is that the standlight is
necessarily fairly weak because the internal battery or super-cap
can't provide enough power.

The only suitable dynamo light for use in the U.S., in a dynamo-only
configuration, remains the Supernova E3 Triple 2. It has a proper
beam, and is not StVZO compliant for on-road use in countries where
StVZO compliance is mandatory.


Have you even looked at beam pictures?
  #14  
Old December 4th 17, 04:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,640
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 1:21:44 AM UTC, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:56:24 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 12/3/2017 4:28 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

-- JS

Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test
requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must"
be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in
a range that a single LED can't handle. Anyone can rate a light
without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33
lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on
the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on
many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.


It's not all that new, and it's not very well rated. The complaints I
saw are a) the beam shape is too narrow, and b) the standlight is
inadequate. Neither is surprising. Dynamo lights make trade-offs, and
one major one is concentrating the limited available output into a
narrow beam, which is a big compromise in terms of safety, both in
seeing and being seen. The second is that the standlight is
necessarily fairly weak because the internal battery or super-cap
can't provide enough power.

The only suitable dynamo light for use in the U.S., in a dynamo-only
configuration, remains the Supernova E3 Triple 2. It has a proper
beam, and is not StVZO compliant for on-road use in countries where
StVZO compliance is mandatory.


Have you even looked at beam pictures?


Thing is, I am a longtime user of BUMM lamps, because they come on the sort of bikes I buy, and I've even lashed out my own discretionary money for a few in the aftermarket, and I agree with Scharfie that the throw of the BUMM lamps sacrifice close spread for impressive distance. You can search for the photographs I published over the years; some on my page at my publisher.. If you search in this forum and elsewhere, I've said so for years. I'll say it again. BUMM lamps trade off the cyclist's safety by giving him light too far ahead to matter (except to the idiots who want to pretend they're "fast" who are perfectly well served by Edelux lamps, which are basically BUMM lamps in lycra for cafe racers) and stinting on the light where it matters, closer in where he can ride into the ditch (in my lanes) or through the glass (near the gutter on many city streets). I've also said for years, to a chorus of abuse from the usual RBT morons, that the BUMM horizontal cutoff endangers the cyclist's life on the roads because -- to take an instance from my own roads -- the cutoff is lower than most important signs, like STOP or YIELD, so the cyclist rides blithely into traffic which has a prior right of way and therefore, especially if the driver is local and familiar with the roads, traveling at a fair clip and less attentively than if approaching a known unmarked intersection. A few years ago, riding at night, I shot through a YIELD sign that my BUMM first series CYO didn't show me, and damn nearly became a statistic under a truck which had the right of way.

Andre Jute
It helps to put your mind in gear before you open your mouth, especially if all you will spout is some old enmity, rather than sense.
  #15  
Old December 4th 17, 05:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,640
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 12:29:00 AM UTC, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

--
JS


Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must" be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in a range that a single LED can't handle.
Anyone can rate a light without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33 lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.


If you're old enough to remember when the Volkswagen Beetle had 6V lamps, that's the amount of light you get from the better BUMM lamps like the CYO series, though some of that power is wasted in hotspots that are the particular bugbear of the BUMM lamps for most of the people I know who use them, mostly tourers. As you can read elsewhere, I'm also unimpressed with the concentration of the light on a horizon that is well outside the reaction range, while stinting near field peripheral light which is much more important to many cyclists. In a single sentence: BUMM lamps, except to the passionate BUMMbuddies, have adequate since the first series CYO rather than sufficient. The fact that a choice has to be made between long throw and peripheral throw supports your thesis by suggesting that BUMM are pushing the limits of the current (and any foreseeable, because the German law limits them too) bicycle dynamos. BUMM has a battery lamp that produces 150 lux (claimed -- I haven't actually had my hands on the thing) and they used to sell an offroad battery lamp, 600 lumens, that made so much light that I would happily have put it on my Porsche in my rallying days, but today would get you arrested almost anywhere in Europe. When I borrowed one for a week, I discovered it also put out enough heat to keep your hands warm in winter, so there might be more light to be harvested from BUMMs reflector model by intelligent development.

You might also want to discount anything you hear from idiots like Krygowski by the observable difference between an E-marked lamp on say a BMW and its American-approved and much dimmer version. Americans are used to, and expect, less light on the road than Europeans. Of course, the same applies in reverse: anything you hear from Europeans starts from a higher expectation of their lamps than Americans express. Personally, I'd be happy behind a bank of boss Cibies or with swivelling lamps (from Cibie, where else?) such as I was used to on my fave Citroen SM (a big GT with a Maserati engine and Citroen suspension; the swiveling lamps were of course banned in the US) in which through the night I'd average better than a ton all the way from the Forest of Devres where I then lived through France and down the spine of Italy, because I could see where I was going, and arrive at Nardo in the morning without a screaming migraine from eye-stress, ready to work. I was reminded of this when I read on another forum of the migraines the hotspots in his BUMM lamps give a bicycle tourer who likes riding through the night.

Andre Jute
Oh, to see, to see, and be safe -- why, I could go 5kph faster if I could only see where I'm going
  #16  
Old December 4th 17, 04:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,214
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/3/2017 5:21 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:56:24 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 12/3/2017 4:28 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

-- JS

Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test
requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must"
be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its in
a range that a single LED can't handle. Anyone can rate a light
without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33
lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others on
the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment on
many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.


It's not all that new, and it's not very well rated. The complaints I
saw are a) the beam shape is too narrow, and b) the standlight is
inadequate. Neither is surprising. Dynamo lights make trade-offs, and
one major one is concentrating the limited available output into a
narrow beam, which is a big compromise in terms of safety, both in
seeing and being seen. The second is that the standlight is
necessarily fairly weak because the internal battery or super-cap
can't provide enough power.

The only suitable dynamo light for use in the U.S., in a dynamo-only
configuration, remains the Supernova E3 Triple 2. It has a proper
beam, and is not StVZO compliant for on-road use in countries where
StVZO compliance is mandatory.


Have you even looked at beam pictures?


Yes. The criticism was valid.

Here is what the review stated:

"The beam is too narrow

In focussing all the output from the LED directly ahead to hit that
magical 100 lux figure, B&M have made something akin to a laser… If it’s
outside a narrow degree arc from the front, it’s going to be near invisible.

Two examples. Take a standard lane-in-each-direction road, in complete
darkness. If you’re cycling in the centre of the left-hand lane with the
IQ-X, you may not see a road joining on your right as almost no light
will reach the opposite verge. Or, take a winding single-lane road. As
you lean the bike to take a right-hand bend, the right side of the beam
dips too, and you cycle into complete darkness.

I’ve often praised the way German light manufacturers make the best use
of every photon by focussing the output into useful areas. With the
IQ-X, B&M have gone too far."

from https://www.darkerside.org/2017/02/bm-iq-x-dynamo-headlight-review/

  #17  
Old December 4th 17, 04:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,214
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/2/2017 8:02 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

--
JS


B&M plays the lux only racket. But their lights are poor lumens/lux ratio. Lux only says the intensity at the brightest point anywhere in the beam. No mention if this is STVZO or not. Best guess is that it isn't. My STVZO working concept is more efficient than any STVZO beam currently on the market. It would need 18 watts for 100lux STVZO, and even that would probably not be able to stay under 2 lux on the horizon. ~65 lux at ~9 watts making 650+ lumens is about the ceiling for a single LED STVZO compliant light.


B&M could buy an integrating sphere and specify both lumens and lux. For
obvious reasons they choose not to do so.

The reports I've seen from users trying to estimate lumens on the B&M
are a lot less than 650 lumens.

I see most higher power lights now moving to multiple LEDs. I had one
high power flashlight where the single LED got so hot that it unsoldered
itself from the PC board. Similar to the problem that some laptops had
with their graphics chips a while back.
  #18  
Old December 4th 17, 05:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,214
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On 12/2/2017 8:02 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:

snip

My STVZO working concept is more efficient than any STVZO beam currently on the market. It would need 18 watts for 100lux STVZO, and even that would probably not be able to stay under 2 lux on the horizon. ~65 lux at ~9 watts making 650+ lumens is about the ceiling for a single LED STVZO compliant light.


Hint, hint:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/80/CDBHD140L-G%20Thru.%20CDBHD1100L-G%20RevC-766480.pdf
  #19  
Old December 4th 17, 09:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

--

This is my STVZO beam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXuE3JmBclM
This light measured 325 lumens at Light and Motions lab about a year ago, from a single led. Different LEDs and higher power take this light up to twice the output.
  #20  
Old December 5th 17, 03:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,807
Default New B&M 100lux headlight.

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 08:33:32 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 12/3/2017 5:21 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:56:24 -0800, sms
wrote:
On 12/3/2017 4:28 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 2:34:34 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
https://www.bike24.com/p2144878.html

-- JS

Is there a power rating? 100 lux at 10 meters, as the STVZO test
requires, is exceedingly bright. I'm hesitant to state they "must"
be drawing at least so much power, but my gut feeling is that its
in a range that a single LED can't handle. Anyone can rate a light
without stating the distance. My single LED 325 lumen measures 33
lux at 10, 500+ lumen measures 50 lux, and the best of the others
on the market, such as Supernova's 205 lm that's standard equipment
on many e-bikes, measure 25 lux at 10 meters, at most.

It's not all that new, and it's not very well rated. The complaints
I saw are a) the beam shape is too narrow, and b) the standlight is
inadequate. Neither is surprising. Dynamo lights make trade-offs,
and one major one is concentrating the limited available output into
a narrow beam, which is a big compromise in terms of safety, both in
seeing and being seen. The second is that the standlight is
necessarily fairly weak because the internal battery or super-cap
can't provide enough power.

The only suitable dynamo light for use in the U.S., in a dynamo-only
configuration, remains the Supernova E3 Triple 2. It has a proper
beam, and is not StVZO compliant for on-road use in countries where
StVZO compliance is mandatory.


Have you even looked at beam pictures?


Yes. The criticism was valid.

Here is what the review stated:

"The beam is too narrow

In focussing all the output from the LED directly ahead to hit that
magical 100 lux figure, B&M have made something akin to a laser… If
it’s outside a narrow degree arc from the front, it’s going to be near
invisible.

Two examples. Take a standard lane-in-each-direction road, in complete
darkness. If you’re cycling in the centre of the left-hand lane with
the IQ-X, you may not see a road joining on your right as almost no
light will reach the opposite verge. Or, take a winding single-lane
road. As you lean the bike to take a right-hand bend, the right side
of the beam dips too, and you cycle into complete darkness.

I’ve often praised the way German light manufacturers make the best
use of every photon by focussing the output into useful areas. With
the IQ-X, B&M have gone too far."

from
https://www.darkerside.org/2017/02/bm-iq-x-dynamo-headlight-review/


Interesting review, thank you for that. Not sure that the photo mimics
how the human eye sees at night (always a problem with this sort of
thing).

Well, in any event there are wider beams if you wish. Scroll down to
the eDelux II/B&M Premium CYO/etc.:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.php

Scroll further down to the Schmidt eDelux, which is what I have on my
bike now (eDelux II on the way as we speak for my other bike). I find
the eDelux quite adequate for in town and rural night riding. Heck, I
have ridden dusk to dawn with B&M halogen lights and been quite happy
with them- used them for 300k, 400k, 600k and 1200k brevets on roads (my
eyes are now 15 years older and don't see quite as well by those lights
as they used to).

Not bright enough and you don't see well enough; too bright and you
don't see well either because near objects are too bright and interfere
with dark adaptation. Too narrow causes the same sort of problem. The
top of the beam should be brighter than the bottom. Some scatter to the
sides is helpful, scatter above the horizon is not (I notice even my new
Subaru has a sharp upper cutoff to the headlight beams). It's easy to
get into thinking that brighter is always better, in which case one will
ultimately ride only during the day in full sun.
 




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