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The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 12, 05:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
TheCoz
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Posts: 146
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...riction-35806/

Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??
I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to
the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly
food for thought.
Coz
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  #2  
Old November 20th 12, 05:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On 20 Nov, 16:23, TheCoz wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c...

Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??
I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to
the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly
food for thought.
Coz


MoS2 not for eating
  #3  
Old November 20th 12, 08:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DirtRoadie
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Posts: 2,915
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On Nov 20, 9:23*am, TheCoz wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c...

Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best?


Um, no. There does not appear to be any control in that experiment
that isolates the effect of the lube from the effect of temperature on
the chain itself.
Things, chains included, expand and contract with changes in
temperature and we cannot tell where that may fit in the
measurements.

DR

  #4  
Old November 21st 12, 01:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

WELL, ITS EITHER THE ALTITUDE OR BRAIN DAMAGE FROM OTHER FACTORS LIKE O2 DEPRIVATION

GNAW THEY CANNOT BE THAT STUPID

MAYBE ITS HUMOR CO STYLE ?

GIVEM SOME SLACK RIGHT ?
  #5  
Old November 21st 12, 03:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On Nov 20, 8:23 am, TheCoz wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c...

Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??
I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to
the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly
food for thought.


I'd be surprised if a ~normal range of ambient air temperature is
significant in the context of friction generated heat at the critical
interface. Maybe in extremes...

Until I discover something better, I like Dumonde Tech year-round. It
lasts a *long* while in summer, and hangs in admirably in the rainy
season. It supposedly has chemical properties that *bond* to steel,
which sounds like advanced adherence, and the performance seems to
support something like this going on.
  #6  
Old November 21st 12, 04:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

AWWW NOTHINGS BONDING TO STEEL...pure BS. If a small company formulated a lube bond to steel they'd be a small company no longer, Valvo gear lube has surface retention properties so when the gears spin more lube, more than motor oil which is visibly 'splashy, is left on the gear teeth to 'cushion' the next contact. But That's not 'bonding'

The CO site sez they're using computer invading bots .

WE should express our ignornce of the current boundries and tech frontiers of lube science..

for example: izzit possible for a hi viscosity lube to develop a surface film of significantly lower, slipprier viscosity, less surface adhesion (of the lube body the surface flows upon ?) Is this a property of multigrade lubes ?

my observation or concern here is with higher temps is lube differs in staying properties, distance covered at 120 degrees before evaporation to a not very surface liquid state - among lubes with similar and acceptable low friction feel.

I imagine at low temps James ATF is superior in a cold dry climate but where would we find a .... ? ATF used in closed systems eg BMW. Is BMW using transaxles, a cooler environment ?

The CO people maybe dealing with a CO environment not a S Cal environment.

We could ask the tour guys what they use ? Maybe that's useful information.

The facts that cold chains exhibit more friction than hot chains is clearly comedy. Could be I missed the point
  #7  
Old November 21st 12, 05:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On 21/11/2012 1:32 PM, Dan O wrote:
On Nov 20, 8:23 am, TheCoz wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c...

Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??
I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to
the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly
food for thought.


I'd be surprised if a ~normal range of ambient air temperature is
significant in the context of friction generated heat at the critical
interface. Maybe in extremes...

Until I discover something better, I like Dumonde Tech year-round. It
lasts a *long* while in summer, and hangs in admirably in the rainy
season. It supposedly has chemical properties that *bond* to steel,
which sounds like advanced adherence, and the performance seems to
support something like this going on.


From their website...

"Dumonde Tech’s Liquid Grease is a high performance replacement for
traditional viscosity grease. Liquid Grease reduces the coefficient of
friction through Polymer Technology. Liquid Grease polymerizes and bonds
to the surface providing extremely low drag."

Hmmm. If it polymerizes, one would think that it (or a component of it)
goes on thin, polymerizes and becomes more viscous or wax like.

I believe the sulphur and other additives in EP oil chemically bond to
the steel surface - possibly with heat and pressure.

Not sure how the DT is supposed to bond, glue?

What is a bond after all?

--
JS
  #8  
Old November 21st 12, 05:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:28:43 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
On 21/11/2012 1:32 PM, Dan O wrote:

On Nov 20, 8:23 am, TheCoz wrote:


http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c....




Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the


summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??


I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to


the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly


food for thought.




I'd be surprised if a ~normal range of ambient air temperature is


significant in the context of friction generated heat at the critical


interface. Maybe in extremes...




Until I discover something better, I like Dumonde Tech year-round. It


lasts a *long* while in summer, and hangs in admirably in the rainy


season. It supposedly has chemical properties that *bond* to steel,


which sounds like advanced adherence, and the performance seems to


support something like this going on.






From their website...



"Dumonde Tech’s Liquid Grease is a high performance replacement for

traditional viscosity grease. Liquid Grease reduces the coefficient of

friction through Polymer Technology. Liquid Grease polymerizes and bonds

to the surface providing extremely low drag."



Hmmm. If it polymerizes, one would think that it (or a component of it)

goes on thin, polymerizes and becomes more viscous or wax like.



I believe the sulphur and other additives in EP oil chemically bond to

the steel surface - possibly with heat and pressure.



Not sure how the DT is supposed to bond, glue?



What is a bond after all?



--

JS


SSSSSS

FOOO....... bond is a word used to sell products, a word leading to a state not bonbing to definitions of fruad in advertizing.


bonding sulfur iznot bonnnnnding polymer that is to saaay sulfur iznot the lubricating property....NOT FROM HERE ANYWAYS ! good point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_bond

an interesting tangent at the hip socket....recently in the news....we see a lubricating structure covering the supporting bone structure. Is the lubricating structure bonded to the bone structure ? No. Tho the two are of the same system, the two structures are seperable and distinctly different under a microscope or to the eye and off course, chemically.

to say the two - of anything really - to go out on a limb - are bonded is to say the two are one.

maybe the hyperlink is Party A ****ing on Party B ?

or are they in cahouts ?
  #9  
Old November 21st 12, 06:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

On Nov 20, 8:28 pm, James wrote:
On 21/11/2012 1:32 PM, Dan O wrote:



On Nov 20, 8:23 am, TheCoz wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...mperature-on-c....


Can one then assume that a thicker oil lube for the chain in the
summer is best? Perhaps motorcycle chain lube??
I can guess that with the colder temps, the thick oil can adhere to
the chain better giving it better lubrication throughout. Defiantly
food for thought.


I'd be surprised if a ~normal range of ambient air temperature is
significant in the context of friction generated heat at the critical
interface. Maybe in extremes...


Until I discover something better, I like Dumonde Tech year-round. It
lasts a *long* while in summer, and hangs in admirably in the rainy
season. It supposedly has chemical properties that *bond* to steel,
which sounds like advanced adherence, and the performance seems to
support something like this going on.


From their website...

"Dumonde Tech’s Liquid Grease is a high performance replacement for
traditional viscosity grease. Liquid Grease reduces the coefficient of
friction through Polymer Technology. Liquid Grease polymerizes and bonds
to the surface providing extremely low drag."

Hmmm. If it polymerizes, one would think that it (or a component of it)
goes on thin, polymerizes and becomes more viscous or wax like.


That's just how it behaves!

I'm coming to realize it. It goes on thin and wet - runs away and
into the gaps instantly like it knows where to do. Work it in and I
don't see how a chain could possibly run any smoother.

Of course that's only right after meticulously lubing (exactly one
right-sized drop per roller) a clean, dry chain. After about 50-100
miles it starts getting black - a real mess (leaves cool looking
*permanent* chainring marks on white cotton :-) Just keeps getting
messier and messier - and that glorious smooth running diminishes -
until you either (preferably) put on a clean chain or wipe the outside
and re-lube.

As long as you keep riding the lube keeps oozing out black and very
wet looking - makes a mess of sprockets but doesn't splatter much (a
few spots accumulate on the stays if you put plenty on). After 500+
miles of dry weather riding it needs attention.

Riding in rain will wash it out - but not right away. At first it
just washes *off* the outside without losing the lubrication inside.
This is really cool, and this is where I think the "waxy" business
happens. Yeah, I think it's supposed to "plate" the insides, but it
seems in practice to keep flowing out. But at the gaps it builds a
kind waxy seal (of course this collects dirt and grit - which is
better than letting that stuff in - yes, I know some gets carried in,
but the stuff does seem to have a hybrid wet and gummy property in use
- I figure it's the heat at the pressure contact points inside that
keeps it flowing [out], then it gets gummy when it reaches cooler
places like the gaps... maybe. If you stop riding and let it sit, it
gets really gummy)

I believe the sulphur and other additives in EP oil chemically bond to
the steel surface - possibly with heat and pressure.

Not sure how the DT is supposed to bond, glue?

What is a bond after all?


I don't know - I was recollecting OTTOMH and wasn't sure they claimed
that - just had the impression it was supposed ot bond or plate or
some awesome marketing buzzword like that - but it really does
something that makes it tenacious *and* slippery.

Neat stuff - expensive, messy, smelly - what more could you want? :-)

  #10  
Old November 21st 12, 06:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default The effects of temperature on chain lubricant and friction

wow are your roads washed clean...you ride how long before cleaning and relubing ?
incroyable ! with valvo or epic and the road bike, I find best eprformance drops out after 50-60 miles here in dune country. With Pedros 2.0 and CRC silicone freshener and a fat tire MTB it doahn matter as long as the stuff is on the chain, for road riding

seriously, how far ?

say, maybe those CO riders are from Colorado Cyclist ?
 




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