Power Meters?

On 4/30/2021 8:03 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

My son asked me the same question, and I kind of relented -- agreeing to buy his Ultegra crank arm cheap if he upgrades to a Dura Ace double sided -- which he may do when he builds a new road racing bike (he sold-off his old Tarmac as part of a down-sizing and spends more time mountain biking now). Like I said, knowing my power is not a big deal for me.

A few years ago I was contracting for a small company and we were
invited to present at a very large bicycle manufacturer. We had several
sensor-based products we could do for them. A much-improved assometer
for seat fitting, tire pressure sensing (not for tubeless though), and
spindle-based power-meter that did not use strain-gauges.

The assometer design was too expensive for them to consider, it would
have cost about $100 to build and would have to sell for about $200 to
shops, but it might have helped sell more high-priced seats.

The spindle-based power meter measured both right and left power. It
would have been pretty cheap to manufacture, adding about $25 to the BOM
of a new bicycle. But the thought was that only a very, very few
cyclists care about power meters and to build a $25 extra expense into
every bicycle when it's being manufactured would not be practical. One
company did offer a spindle-based power meter for a while, for about
$600
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/easton-race-face-launch-spindle-based-cinch-power-meter/.
There is still some stock available. The replacement product goes onto
the crank spider. Also around $600.

I think that pedal-based power-meters are the most likely to become more
of a mass-market item since they can be manufactured cheaply and are
easy to install. Right now they are costly, but as soon as some Chinese
company starts making them the price will fall.

On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.

That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 9:41:31 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.
That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle..

That is true Frank, but do you recommend a person who has been out of work for a year buy a $10,000 bike? Though I suppose that I shouldn't ask you that since you don't think that anyone needs more than a $25 touring bike. People want what they want and indeed some of it is pure foolishness. After 10 years of covering the ground I did 40 years before my concussion has brought me back perhaps closer to your point of view than that of Velonews. I am now going back to "normal" bikes that cost me about $1,500. Perhaps that is higher than you would spend but it isn't the sort of bike you wouldn't feel perfectly comfortable riding.

jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 2:47:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Op donderdag 29 april 2021 om 23:35:31 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 8:40:22 AM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
What do you think of this power meter. I don't want pedal one until
they come out with Shimano cleat model and I don't want a hub based.
What if any does the group use?4IIII PRECISION PRO SHIMANO ULTEGRA
R8000 DUAL-SIDED CRANKSET
Deacon Mark
Buy a Stages. Its the best. https://store.stagescycling.com/ You can
get a single-sided arm pretty cheap and decide whether it is worth the
investment, and if it's not, then sell it. I'm personally not
interested in power data, but a lot of my friends love to ponder their
data. I'm also way behind the technology -- having just purchased my
first GPS cyclo-computer, a Stages Dash which I really like.

Full disclosu Stages has operations here in Portland, and they used
to employ my son, so I'm very partial. I still think they have the best low-cost option.

-- Jay Beattie.
If you already have the Dash why not buy the left crank when you can get it cheap?

Lou

My son asked me the same question, and I kind of relented -- agreeing to
buy his Ultegra crank arm cheap if he upgrades to a Dura Ace double
sided -- which he may do when he builds a new road racing bike (he
sold-off his old Tarmac as part of a down-sizing and spends more time
mountain biking now). Like I said, knowing my power is not a big deal for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


As a fat, old, out of shape cheapskate cyclist who likes tech gadgets, the
Velocomp PowerPod
https://velocomp.com
sounds like the sweet spot for me.

The iQ2 “power meter in a crank extender� looked hopeful at first, but they
completely changed their design to a power meter in a pedal and now seem to
be stuck in a loop of producing vague, positive press releases while the
backers continue to complain on their Facebook page about the complete
absence of product being shipped.
https://www.iqsquare.com

On 4/30/2021 12:33 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 2:47:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Op donderdag 29 april 2021 om 23:35:31 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 8:40:22 AM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
What do you think of this power meter. I don't want pedal one until
they come out with Shimano cleat model and I don't want a hub based.
What if any does the group use?4IIII PRECISION PRO SHIMANO ULTEGRA
R8000 DUAL-SIDED CRANKSET
Deacon Mark
Buy a Stages. Its the best. https://store.stagescycling.com/ You can
get a single-sided arm pretty cheap and decide whether it is worth the
investment, and if it's not, then sell it. I'm personally not
interested in power data, but a lot of my friends love to ponder their
data. I'm also way behind the technology -- having just purchased my
first GPS cyclo-computer, a Stages Dash which I really like.

Full disclosu Stages has operations here in Portland, and they used
to employ my son, so I'm very partial. I still think they have the best low-cost option.

-- Jay Beattie.
If you already have the Dash why not buy the left crank when you can get it cheap?

Lou

My son asked me the same question, and I kind of relented -- agreeing to
buy his Ultegra crank arm cheap if he upgrades to a Dura Ace double
sided -- which he may do when he builds a new road racing bike (he
sold-off his old Tarmac as part of a down-sizing and spends more time
mountain biking now). Like I said, knowing my power is not a big deal for me.

-- Jay Beattie.


As a fat, old, out of shape cheapskate cyclist who likes tech gadgets, the
Velocomp PowerPod
https://velocomp.com
sounds like the sweet spot for me.

The iQ2 “power meter in a crank extender� looked hopeful at first, but they
completely changed their design to a power meter in a pedal and now seem to
be stuck in a loop of producing vague, positive press releases while the
backers continue to complain on their Facebook page about the complete
absence of product being shipped.
https://www.iqsquare.com


Yup, the purpose of power meters for old guys like us is to show us in
an objective way how pathetic we are athletically. Or as I also say,
"to chronicle our decline." And I knew that *before* I bought two power
meters (two bikes). I just wanted to play with the data - which is
fascinating for a data junkie like me, with lots of surprises - but "how
strong am I (not)" is not one of them.

And yes, the iQ2 saga has been interesting to watch (dcrainmaker.com has
documented a lot of it). I only followed b/c that was the only game
(nearly) in town for mtb pedals before Garmin's recent release.

Mark J.

On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 9:41:31 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.
That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle..

You could put a power meter on a beater to monitor your recovery from a heart attack. Power-meter (and heart monitor) are purchased by elite athletes and old ladies. People have a lot of reasons for wanting power data -- including plain old curiosity. It's not just the latest and greatest mentality.

-- Jay Beattie.

Op vrijdag 30 april 2021 om 18:41:31 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.
That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Like any other commercial industry.


Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle.

Also for non racers there are many improvements and E bikes is certainly a game changer. It's a 'plaque' around here. Now also 'old' people can go fast or less fast without getting tired or sweating. Teenager already go to school on a E bike.

Lou

On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 12:33:53 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 2:47:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Op donderdag 29 april 2021 om 23:35:31 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 8:40:22 AM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
What do you think of this power meter. I don't want pedal one until
they come out with Shimano cleat model and I don't want a hub based.
What if any does the group use?4IIII PRECISION PRO SHIMANO ULTEGRA
R8000 DUAL-SIDED CRANKSET
Deacon Mark
Buy a Stages. Its the best. https://store.stagescycling.com/ You can
get a single-sided arm pretty cheap and decide whether it is worth the
investment, and if it's not, then sell it. I'm personally not
interested in power data, but a lot of my friends love to ponder their
data. I'm also way behind the technology -- having just purchased my
first GPS cyclo-computer, a Stages Dash which I really like.

Full disclosu Stages has operations here in Portland, and they used
to employ my son, so I'm very partial. I still think they have the best low-cost option.

-- Jay Beattie.
If you already have the Dash why not buy the left crank when you can get it cheap?

Lou

My son asked me the same question, and I kind of relented -- agreeing to
buy his Ultegra crank arm cheap if he upgrades to a Dura Ace double
sided -- which he may do when he builds a new road racing bike (he
sold-off his old Tarmac as part of a down-sizing and spends more time
mountain biking now). Like I said, knowing my power is not a big deal for me.

-- Jay Beattie.

As a fat, old, out of shape cheapskate cyclist who likes tech gadgets, the
Velocomp PowerPod
https://velocomp.com
sounds like the sweet spot for me.

The iQ2 “power meter in a crank extender� looked hopeful at first, but they
completely changed their design to a power meter in a pedal and now seem to
be stuck in a loop of producing vague, positive press releases while the
backers continue to complain on their Facebook page about the complete
absence of product being shipped.
https://www.iqsquare.com
I had a similar product and I think that it is laying about here somewhere. It was only $100 when I got it. The numbers seemed to me to be totally overinflated.

On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 1:43:56 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 9:41:31 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.
That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle.
You could put a power meter on a beater to monitor your recovery from a heart attack. Power-meter (and heart monitor) are purchased by elite athletes and old ladies. People have a lot of reasons for wanting power data -- including plain old curiosity. It's not just the latest and greatest mentality.

What the couple of riders in the group did with them was to make their heart conditions much worse. You keep trying to improve your numbers no matter what the doctor says.

On 4/30/2021 2:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 30 april 2021 om 18:41:31 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 4/30/2021 11:19 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I wouldn't complain if it was $25. But we're talking $500 and up. And that is a lot of money for almost no return.
That logic applies as well to almost every "you gotta have it!" bit of
bike technology since index shifting. The industry is chasing after ever
diminishing improvements and touting them as necessary.

Like any other commercial industry.


Since index, the only real game changer for anyone except racers has
been e-bikes. And that's because they're a step away from being a bicycle.

Also for non racers there are many improvements and E bikes is certainly a game changer. It's a 'plaque' around here. Now also 'old' people can go fast or less fast without getting tired or sweating. Teenager already go to school on a E bike.

Lou

Agree, but please tell me what 'plaque' means in this context?

Mark J.