Athletes and PEDs

Interesting roundtable on Comcast Net Sports (CSNDC) last night.
----------
Sports and Steroids: Performance Enhancing Drugs in School
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic Jun 11 09:00pm
Special/Sports, 60 Mins.
Middle- and high-school student athletes and coaches participate in a town
hall meeting on the dangers of using steroids.

Original Airdate: June 2, 2005.
---------

One of the panelists asked a former top level athlete (paraphrasing):

'If a multi-million dollar earning athlete wants to take steroids,
can he acquire steroids (or PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs)) and stay
ahead of the testing curve?'

Without hesitation, the former athlete (who -obviously- had taken high-dose
steroids, and was still taking them) said emphatically: 'Oh, yes'.

He went on to say how this was 'big business' and that top athletes in pro
sports are earning multi year contracts in excess of $150million USD. Uh,
he didn't explain -how- they stayed ahead of the curve.

I've got a rather long discussion of the various ways they might beat the
testing. I could summarize later, or post it if anyone is interested.

Just one comment and that's to say there are many ways to 'test clean'. As
most know it's reported that pro-cyclists have their samples frozen and
stored and LA has said that he knows this and knows that at anytime in the
future they can thaw his sample and retest it with any new technologies, or
(implying) for any drugs not yet made public. He doesn't seem worried.

If you presume the top ten riders in every race have their samples stored,
and there are quite a lot of races each season, it rapidly becomes an
escalating problem to store all of these samples. Who knows how long they
store them - but presumably it's 5 years. Heh, I doubt if anyone throws
away LA's samples, but according to lab protocol the samples do not have
athlete's names on them, so the guy cleaning out the fridge wouldn't know
which ones to save, lol.

jj

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:27:22 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
If you presume the top ten riders in every race

Big assumption.

More like: all winners of HC races, not even stage winners of 2.HC races
I think.


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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:08:10 -0400, wrote:

If you presume the top ten riders in every race

Big assumption.

JT


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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:26:57 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:27:22 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
If you presume the top ten riders in every race

Big assumption.

More like: all winners of HC races, not even stage winners of 2.HC races
I think.

Thanks ED.

The show is repeated today on Comcast at 5pm EDT:
-------------------
Sports and Steroids: Performance Enhancing Drugs in School
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic Jun 12 05:00pm
Special/Sports, 60 Mins.
Middle- and high-school student athletes and coaches participate in a town
hall meeting on the dangers of using steroids.
-------------------

It's kind of boring, but a few comments are of interest. Hopefully I didn't
mangle the recounting too badly - I was only half-listening, but perked up
when I hear the former pro-athlete (football?) commenting..

jj

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:04:14 -0400, Jet wrote:
More like: all winners of HC races, not even stage winners
of 2.HC races I think.

Thanks ED.

Well, thanks for nothing, it was just my guess.


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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:33:34 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:04:14 -0400, Jet wrote:
More like: all winners of HC races, not even stage winners
of 2.HC races I think.

Thanks ED.

Well, thanks for nothing, it was just my guess.

A wink is as good as a nod to a myopic equus.

jj

Jet wrote:

He went on to say how this was 'big business' and that top athletes in pro
sports are earning multi year contracts in excess of $150million USD. Uh,
he didn't explain -how- they stayed ahead of the curve.

in the BALCO case the track athletes (who underwent testing) stayed
ahead of the curve by using THG (the designer steroid). Since it didn't
exist it could not have been banned specifically by name. They also
used HGH (undetectable) and testosterone ("the cream", possible to use
without setting of the alarm).

The baseball players could take anything since they weren't being
tested.

On 12 Jun 2005 08:55:35 -0700, "amit" wrote:



Jet wrote:

He went on to say how this was 'big business' and that top athletes in pro
sports are earning multi year contracts in excess of $150million USD. Uh,
he didn't explain -how- they stayed ahead of the curve.

in the BALCO case the track athletes (who underwent testing) stayed
ahead of the curve by using THG (the designer steroid). Since it didn't
exist it could not have been banned specifically by name.

Check.

They also used HGH (undetectable) and

Some tell-tale signs - abdominals take on a bloated look in some people
(intestines/connective tissue swells).

testosterone ("the cream", possible to use without setting of the alarm).

Androgel. Have you heard any insider chit-chat on how effective it is? I've
heard of hematocrits being raised 6 points in six weeks on it.

The baseball players could take anything since they weren't being
tested.

Clomid for endurance athletes? I found a link that suggested it helped to
repair muscle damaged by long distance events, such as cycling. It is on
the WADA list, iirc. Not sure of detection methods or limits.

Oh well fun (or annoying, depending on your POV) to speculate. ;-)

jj

Jet wrote:
On 12 Jun 2005 08:55:35 -0700, "amit" wrote:

in the BALCO case the track athletes (who underwent testing) stayed
ahead of the curve by using THG (the designer steroid). Since it didn't
exist it could not have been banned specifically by name.
Check.

actually the entire class of steroids is banned. otherwise some
enterprising chemist could just synthesize a new drug with a
trivial structural difference to get around any list of names.

What was unusual about THG is that it was designed to be unstable
so that it disintegrated during gas chromatography, and became
undetectable. There must have been a good or at least decent
chemist behind it. I don't know if the BALCO investigation has
fingered a chemist yet, but it sure wasn't Victor Conte doing the
lab work.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0005AF2D-C69A-1FFD-869A83414B7F0000


testosterone ("the cream", possible to use without setting of the alarm).

Androgel. Have you heard any insider chit-chat on how effective it is? I've
heard of hematocrits being raised 6 points in six weeks on it.

From whom, Androgel salesmen? I don't think testosterone or steroids
or any similar drugs raise hematocrit - that is EPO's job, or orange
juice's. What these allegedly do is enable better recovery so more
benefit from traiining, and harder training is doable. So performance
is improved at the same HCT. Kind of like what regular old honest
training does, only more so.

On 13 Jun 2005 21:41:07 -0700, "
wrote:

Jet wrote:
On 12 Jun 2005 08:55:35 -0700, "amit" wrote:

in the BALCO case the track athletes (who underwent testing) stayed
ahead of the curve by using THG (the designer steroid). Since it didn't
exist it could not have been banned specifically by name.
Check.

actually the entire class of steroids is banned. otherwise some
enterprising chemist could just synthesize a new drug with a
trivial structural difference to get around any list of names.

What was unusual about THG is that it was designed to be unstable
so that it disintegrated during gas chromatography, and became
undetectable. There must have been a good or at least decent
chemist behind it. I don't know if the BALCO investigation has
fingered a chemist yet, but it sure wasn't Victor Conte doing the
lab work.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0005AF2D-C69A-1FFD-869A83414B7F0000

I thought it was well known who did it. They just haven't been able to
prove it.

testosterone ("the cream", possible to use without setting of the alarm).

Androgel. Have you heard any insider chit-chat on how effective it is? I've
heard of hematocrits being raised 6 points in six weeks on it.

From whom, Androgel salesmen? I don't think testosterone or steroids or any
similar drugs raise hematocrit - that is EPO's job, or orange juice's.

Well Androgel does claim this on their website. Since this is a
prescription drug they can't make claims and give testimony that isn't true
- they are regulated by the FDA.

What these allegedly do is enable better recovery so more
benefit from traiining, and harder training is doable. So performance
is improved at the same HCT. Kind of like what regular old honest
training does, only more so.

OK.

jj